merlin

I've just seen it, I wouldn't be surprised if he gets a ban for that. Agreed Mick - absolutely X-Rated challenge ; we need players being brought before the FA like a hole in the head ; what do some of these guys do for brains..??

Don't even joke about it - Allardyce or Round might just be watching this site and draw inspiration from your suggestion....!!

If Allardyce doesn't have confidence that Enrique can handle the Derby, he shouldn't have paid 6m for him. You can't draw any other conclusion, as the guy has performed reasonably well in all the games he has started.He is a decent passer of the ball, and his temperament looks good so I don't see why he wasn't picked...Beye has looked suspect on some occasions, esp at Man City & Reading. These selection decisions are baffling..Steve Round's influence, anyone..!!

All who are complaining about Harper should think about things for a minute - if all you had to worry about was the keeper, we would have a fantastic side ; we've got FAR MORE problems in the side than Harper. I didn't think he did much wrong at all apart from the pass which Jones nearly intercepted - we have dire problems all over the field and those criticising him for the goal(can't see why) should be asking where Heginbotham's marker was at the corner - the guy could have written his name on the ball before heading it in... Apart from Faye before he went off, our defence was disorganised.

The best thing that can be said about this match is that we got a point, and no-one could have complained if we had lost in the end. They clearly wanted it more than we did and at least had a real go at getting the points; most neutral observers would have expected that they would... Derby games are renowned for form/relative player merits going out of the window, but I think back to Liverpool's game at the SOS, and despite all the spirited huffing & puffing from the Mackems, they imposed their will on the game, both physically and by superior skill. At no time did we come even close to doing that, and one has to either believe that;- 1. We are no better than them, player for player, OR 2.They were better organised and motivated than we were.. Which one do you think is the right answer..! How many times did we force their keeper into a decent save(NOT scrambling around at corners etc?) How many times did we penetrate their back 4 by good interpassing moves rather than hit & hope long balls with Owen or someone else using individual skill to try to get a shooting chance ? I bet if you work out the number of saves opposition keepers have had to make during the past 4 away games, our clear-chance ratio is one of the lowest in the Prem. There are clearly no original thinkers in the coaching staff at SJP - if Milner's lucky strike(clearly an attempt at a cross)had not gone in, there would have been less attempts to gloss over this result which, like Reading & Derby, should have been a decent shout of getting 3 points. There will have to be a big improvement over the next few weeks.....

Think you're underestimating this game a bit. This is immediately followed by the visits of Liverpool and Arsenal with a trip to in-form Blackburn in the middle. Thee games where we will go in as underdogs. If we don't take three points from this game there's a strong chance we will look back on it as a massive opportunity missed. Mess up this, and Liverpool and Arsenal could really put a dent in our season. It's a massive game for us. Totally agree - lose this, and we are under huge pressure over the next few weeks ; it could make or break the season and its almost(but not quite)in the same league as the SJP Derby which signalled the end for Gullit - I don't think Allardyce will go if we lose, not a chance, but it might be a different matter if we also lose the next 3 games and the team's confidence goes......

We'll have to agree to disagree ; judging NUFC as a bigger club than Everton etc is not the yardstick I want to be used - we need to be judged against the likes of Man U Arsenal & Liverpool if we REALLY want to be considered a success. Also, unlike you, I would choose O'Neill if given the choice of him and Allardyce - also, KK at this point in time. Using KK's age as a get out for him as a modern manager is not on - both Allardyce & O'Neill are also in their 50s...O'Neill has successfully managed at least 2 clubs apart from his first appt. - Leicester & Celtic(who in fan terms, which is how so many NUFC fans judge a 'big' club, are bigger than us !) ; he won things at both clubs and although you keep mentioning Scotland, he had to compete against some decent European sides to get Celtic to the UEFA Final. He has had a decent if unspectacular start at Villa, but I have been more impressed with their performances than ours this year - compare the relative cost of constructing the 2 sides and you will see that Allardyce had some decent material to work with even though this is his first season. O'Neill has been luckier with his youngsters(they are clearly better than anything we have in reserve or academy), but he HAS given them a chance and their play is more attractive than ours. OK, they lost to Man U, and Liverpool at home but these are results that are likely to happen to us ; lets see what happens by the end of the season....

Mort has said the only things he COULD say - he has no alternative. He is quite right that all the managerial changes have been bad for the club, but that is down to the previous Board who didn't pick the right man in the first place, although unlike many, I believe that Dalglish WOULD have been a success if he hadn't fallen out with Fletcher and Shearer hadn't been injured in the 97 pre-season. All the other choices, with the obvious exception of SBR(who should really have come 2 years previously when asked by Sir John after KK walked out)have been disastrous without exception. Mort & Ashley are quite correct in seeking to stabilse the club, and as I have said on other threads, are unlikely to jump into sacking Allardyce for the remainder of the season at least. Whether they reconsider at the season's end will depend on what happens between now & then ; I would guess that if we finish in the top 10, they will let things go for another year ; if we finish near the bottom 4 then I wouldn't be at all surprised if Allardyce goes, esp if they have given him money to spend in Jan. The next few weeks will be a big test for everyone at the club - we have some tough games and if we lose them all it will heap pressure on both manager & directors. If we are in the bottom 4 by Christmas,there will be some sleepless nights for the latter, as the season could be falling apart.. A bad finish to the season, with us being near the relegation slots, would be justification for the manager to be replaced in most observers eyes and enable the directors/owner to seek top class replacements - on the other hand, a top 10 finish would give little reason for Allardyce to be replaced ; most of the media would view it as success given our disarray over the past few years. Basically, given some financial support in Jan, its all in Allardyce's own hands - he has at least half a team of his own choosing and must stand or fall by results. If these are not forthcoming, the consequences for Prem managers are well known, not that it is a disaster for them - they walk away with a fortune for what is basically failure.

Yes, I know Dave - sorry, but I've got a wife who is now desperate to serve the evening meal - I'm not popular with her either...!!!

I was watching this the other night: absolutely, he isn't Agreed - Shearer is ONE of NUFCs best CFs, but not THE best and certainly not the club's best ever player. I can think of at least 3 or 4 in a few seconds who are better. He WAS the best English CF of his era.

Souness and O'Neill had their Scottish successes with the respective halves of the Old Firm. Their League Cup successes were with Blackburn Rovers and Leicester City, respectively - two quite comparable, middling teams. I appreciate that Souness has managed even bigger clubs without success, but I'm not arguing he is as good a manager as O'Neill, let alone a better manager. I'm seeking to undermine the idea that a manager's trophy record "proves" he is better or worse than another manager. Whether anyone like sit or not, winning trophies is ALL that matters in establishing a club as a top side with worldwide respect - West Ham were universally held up as proponents of football as it should be played in the 60s, and even they won the FA Cup/Cupwinners Cup(they did have Moore, Peters, Hurst etc i the side), but Man U went on to be the most renowned side because of title wins and European Cup success.. Real Madrid have never replicated their successes in Europe that made them world famous in the 60s, but they are still revered because of them. NUFC have won NO Domestic trophies since 1955 , NO trophies at all since 69 - name me another club with our fan base who have been so unsuccessful - KK did a great job for us, but by walking out, he demonstrated that he couldn't finish it off ; either that or he thought the way the club was being run did not allow that because he wouldn't have limitless funds.

I wonder about Patrick Barclay sometimes...."O'Neill is a better manager than Allardyce". There was also a worrying assumption by these hacks that Ashley is clueless and might be bad for the club. Nonsense. O'Neill IS a better manager than Allardyce - his trophy record proves it, as does his getting Celtic to a European Final ; Allardyce has won NOWT... that means souness was better than keegan ? Lets put it another way - as you brought KK into it, who would you choose if both KK and MON were in for the NUFC job at the end of this season? Sorry, but for me, its MON...proven winner and interested in ALL aspects of a club, not just buying players. Proven against Scots. To put it yet another way, who would you have had back in 1992? We are not back in 1992 - I asked who would you choose if both were in for the NUFC job at the end of THIS season - so - who would YOU choose??? And as for your comment about the Scots, did Celtic only play Scots when reaching the UEFA Final against Porto..!!? Oh, well in that case, probably Martin O'Neill. I would also prefer Martin O'Neill to Brian Clough, Bill Shankly, Bob Paisley and Jock Stein. I reckon he'd out-perform the lot of them. Well, he might, anyway. You said O'Neill was a proven winner - he's won several things in Scotland and an English League Cup, just like Graeme Souness. Graeme Souness has also won an English FA Cup. Graeme Souness has won a cup in Turkey, too, unlike Martin O'Neill. Martin O'Neill has won nothing in trans-European competition. Souness was three injuries away from getting us into the UEFA Cup Final. Steve McLaren did get Middlesbrough into the UEFA Cup Final. Martin O'Neill's achievements with Celtic are worth little. Getting a bit silly now, aren't we ? How do Clough, Paisley et al come into this ? I thought most of the people you mentioned were DEAD ! Lets get down to basics - O'Neill, Souness, Allardyce - all ALIVE(at least, 2 of them!)the last time I looked ; Suppose all 3 were your choice of manager given that you HAD the choice - which would you choose? You can add KK in as well, if you like - he's been our boss once, so you can view the choice with the advantage of hindsight.... NOW - to be fair - these are probably the only types of manager who would currently take the NUFC job. IF Hiddink was prepared to do it, I would actually choose him, but we are looking at what we can currently be expected to have available IF the job was vacant, which it currently isn't and I don't expect it to be until at least the season's end, if then... As for your comparison of O'Neill with Souness - how many Chairmen of Prem clubs would choose Souness over O'Neill if both wanted to manage their club(don't say Shepherd, we all know he doesn't really count !)? Souness MIGHT have won things with Rangers, but they were the Chelsea of their day - Celtic couldn't even attempt to match them, but O'Neill had to work with a much more even playing field in the transfer stakes, and Souness's tenure at other clubs AFTER Rangers tells you everything - the same DOESN'T apply to MON.

I wonder about Patrick Barclay sometimes...."O'Neill is a better manager than Allardyce". There was also a worrying assumption by these hacks that Ashley is clueless and might be bad for the club. Nonsense. O'Neill IS a better manager than Allardyce - his trophy record proves it, as does his getting Celtic to a European Final ; Allardyce has won NOWT... that means souness was better than keegan ? Lets put it another way - as you brought KK into it, who would you choose if both KK and MON were in for the NUFC job at the end of this season? Sorry, but for me, its MON...proven winner and interested in ALL aspects of a club, not just buying players. Proven against Scots. To put it yet another way, who would you have had back in 1992? We are not back in 1992 - I asked who would you choose if both were in for the NUFC job at the end of THIS season - so - who would YOU choose??? And as for your comment about the Scots, did Celtic only play Scots when reaching the UEFA Final against Porto..!!?

NO striker will flourish the way we are currently playing - there is RUBBISH service from midfield(which is largely by-passed by hit & hope balls from defenders under pressure ; there is only Emre who can see an defence-splitting pass(the type that Owen in particular thrives on) and he is inconsistent. There is not enough movement off the ball to create space for the forwards and the build-up, apart from hopeful punts from defenders, is laboured and slow - esp when Geremi is in the side, but he is not the only culprit.. We lack both the players AND the system to create many clear cut chances - by that I mean those created as a result of decent build-up NOT by percentage football relying on mistakes from opposition defenders.. This gets you by with the poorer teams at home, but, as Reading showed, not even them away from home. Pompey's movement left us for dead in Saturday's match - if Owen had been playing for them, the odds on him scoring would have been much greater than playing in our system - just think back to the Boro match - both goals from individual brilliance - NOT from properly-constructed moves... It must be a nightmare playing up front for NUFC right now - even Shearer would have found it tough.

Agreed - he's totally correct isn't he ? The truth always hurts...

I wonder about Patrick Barclay sometimes...."O'Neill is a better manager than Allardyce". There was also a worrying assumption by these hacks that Ashley is clueless and might be bad for the club. Nonsense. O'Neill IS a better manager than Allardyce - his trophy record proves it, as does his getting Celtic to a European Final ; Allardyce has won NOWT... that means souness was better than keegan ? Lets put it another way - as you brought KK into it, who would you choose if both KK and MON were in for the NUFC job at the end of this season? Sorry, but for me, its MON...proven winner and interested in ALL aspects of a club, not just buying players.

I wonder about Patrick Barclay sometimes...."O'Neill is a better manager than Allardyce". There was also a worrying assumption by these hacks that Ashley is clueless and might be bad for the club. Nonsense. O'Neill IS a better manager than Allardyce - his trophy record proves it, as does his getting Celtic to a European Final ; Allardyce has won NOWT... that means souness was better than keegan ? So you think Allardyce's football, at both Bolton & NUFC, is better than MONs at Celtic or Villa ??

I wonder about Patrick Barclay sometimes...."O'Neill is a better manager than Allardyce". There was also a worrying assumption by these hacks that Ashley is clueless and might be bad for the club. Nonsense. O'Neill IS a better manager than Allardyce - his trophy record proves it, as does his getting Celtic to a European Final ; Allardyce has won NOWT...

What about when the States held it in 1994 ? How far do you think California is from the East Coast ? Or even Chicago, for example? These arguments are not valid against holding the WC ANYWHERE - do you think it should only be held in Europe because its easier for YOU? FIFA don't look at it that way, they want to advance the game ALL OVER the world. Also, it would be held in June, so that is the Aussie Winter, temps around 18-20 during the day - perfect for football - as for time differences, when the WC was held in Argentina in 78, we often had to stay up until the early hours to see games because they were 8 hours behind - 9 behind Central Europe, so that doesn't stand up either.. As has been said, you wouldn't get supporters in ANY country watching games between very minor nations, wherever it was played.

Has looked the weakest link in Chelsea's back 4 on the occasions he has played - not impressed at all.

ALL TRUE

If Jones isn't kept quiet, we will lose - Allardyce clearly cannot change the way he sets the side up for away games, and attacking them down the flanks(with Milner/Zog in their CORRECT positions)is basically the best hope we have of getting anything out of the game. Having said that, I cannot see us competing well enough(OR retaining enough possession) in midfield to keep the pressure off the back 4 which is essential in this game. I thought Keane's comments after the Man C game were exactly right - he didn't try to say that his side 'deserved more' from the game, as we so often hear from defeated managers, he simply shook his head when that was put to him and said 'how many saves did their keeper have to make ?'..... This is exactly what Allardyce should have said after our game at Reading, because that was exactly what happened - we didn't force their keeper into 1 decent save, so you can't be surprised when you get nothing out of the match.... A similar approach at the SOS will result in a draw at very best, and most probably, a 1-0 defeat. We will have a real problem over the next few weeks if we lose this match - Arsenal & Liverpool are the next visitors to SJP, and we have to visit Blackburn in between - do those optimists out there STILL think we've got a 'relatively easy run.'..!?? If we lose all these games, it could be crisis time before Christmas, and we all know what THAT means...

I voted Yes(as would any sane person), but the way things are right now, it would take all of Abramovitch's money, let alone Ashley's, for this team to get anywhere NEAR the title - I regret to say that I am coming round to the opinion of those who think we'll never win ANYTHING, let alone the Prem .Its all gone on too long, and as was stated by some on another site, some of us are getting too long in the tooth to ever hope of seeing it happen - at least I HAVE seen us win a trophy in 69, so I can't grumble as much as others, but there should have been far more than just that..there have been too many false dawns and football has changed irrevocably over the past 10 years, to our detriment - we blew our chance of being a member of the Top 4 back in 96, and that was the 'Last Hurrah' in my opinion ; results such as we have seen over the past few weeks have been as poor as anything in the past, and some of the football worse. Its a pointless thread really, as we haven't GOT the cash to buy the title - even with Ashley.

Yes, I was at that Spurs game - it was during a period when they seemed to have the 'Indian Sign' on us - we seemed to lose every home game against them. In this match, we actually played well - Pat Jennings saved their bacon numerous times but every time they broke away, they scored..!! They had a Scottish striker, Alfie Conn, who got a hat-trick I believe - we had Tommy Craig making his home debut, and he scored a cracker near the end, but it was only a consolation.. Even their manager(he was an Ulsterman, a former Arsenal defender, but I can't remember his name) said afterwards that he couldn't understand how the scoreline came about...!! I was disappointed, but it was only 'one of those games' - nothing like as important as the Man U one in March 96...