AyeDubbleYoo

I wouldn’t describe people being gay as something they do mind, it’s something they are. Unless we’re saying it’s OK to be gay as long as you don’t do anything sexual, which is patently just as bad a conclusion.

The whole ‘sin not sinner’ argument stretches logic to the limit like. How can you really value someone equally if you think something they do naturally and as a key part of their being is fundamentally wrong?

Yeah, absolutely fair, I just don’t think that’s usually the argument against the signing. All fair points though.

I guess the justification was listening to the fans who wanted it, but it’s clearly unfair. Not that absolute fairness is the only criteria I guess. You might want to allow some advantage to the people who are prepared to put effort into the general sale.

Action should be taken if you’re not allowed to write messages on your kit.

We’ve been through all this before. We needed goals in the front line, we didn’t know Gordon would play so well at LW.

Always seemed a fair estimate that your chances are about half of what they were last season. A 1 in 5 chance, for example, can lead to very long losing streaks. As much as it allows me to go to every game, it wasn’t fair to bring general sale back.

Yeah agree, as long as they’re good and we don’t go back to needing Murphy to play minutes (for example).

I agree a bit, but also don't. Are we saying we need a first team supported by much worse squad players? Only going to exacerbate the Championship/Champions League nature of our squad, isn't it? I know because Barnes was signed rather than already here it's a debate, but still seems a move that might leave us weaker overall.

Don’t see how this game can cause any worry really. Expected defeat, just want to see a bit of fight and a decent performance.

He was wearing the armband tonight, didn’t get a clear look but I presume without the Jesus phrase.

Pundits saying West Ham had turned a corner after putting in a dire performance against us.

But surely you can't win by not promoting progressive values? Seems a bit like the woke argument, basically blaming people with compassion and belief in equality for the extreme reactions of people on the other side. Sometimes both sides of the argument aren't equally valid.

Yeah, we said earlier that we don't really know what he meant by this gesture. Still unfortunate that he felt he couldn't wear the armband as intended though.

Somehow it feels like you might be asking for forgiveness and not permission here.

Good point I guess sometimes rights conflict when there are different minority groups involved. Your right to religious freedom means you persecute another group who has the right to equality and protection from discrimination.

It was inevitable

A decent sentiment and as a non-believer I hope it’s genuinely felt, although I still disagree with the first part strongly myself.

In what way? Because there is scripture? I’m not sure how much value there is in this argument, the result is that you’re saying one group of people is inferior to another.

Very. This is why we’re lucky to live in the first world.

True, but it’s not exactly the same thing. The PL want to say ‘we as an organisation support LGBT people’. Instead of having a visible anti racism campaign they could write a couple of blog posts, but it’s a bigger priority than that.

Yeah, I think we get that generally. But what would you do in the case that the PL wants to promote equality and a player doesn’t?

There’s a lot in that post that would disagree with as premises, but I get what you’re saying. On the other hand, the PL is a global brand and these brands generally have values they feel they need to express because of their presence in society.

Anyone can have whatever beliefs they want in private. But some of them can’t be accepted in public in civilised society. That happens all the time. Someone wouldn’t really be accepted for being racist or hating women or whatever. It’s not an easy argument but that’s the way I lean.

I respect their right to different beliefs but I can’t accept that extends to accepting that people are fundamentally inferior because of things like sexuality. Do we just say to racists that their believes are equally valid?