mrmojorisin75

why is there an "if" at the start of your sentence?

Both, the turnstiles counted how many people went in, but the Chief Super David Duckenfield was stood in the control room with CCTV which could zoom into the Leppings Lane end so close that it could see the colour of a person's eyes. He could directly see how full each pen was and control how many fans went into which areas. Once the gate was opened that let people into Hillsbrough the turnstiles could not count how many people were in the ground could they? The fans had been allowed to bypass the turnstiles because of the crush outside which in previous years had been controlled by cordons and people arriving at different times, however the delayed traffic all arrived together and so there were many more people trying to get into the ground all at once before the match begun. It would have been obvious to the Chief Super that pens 3 and 4 were already full due to his access to the CCTV footage and previously to that game when the pens were full police and stewards were placed at the entrance of the tunnel to stop fans going through it into the pens and to direct the fans to the side pens. On that day the police were unable to explain why there was no-one placed at the tunnel to ensure that no more fans went into pens 3 and 4 and were instead directed into the relatively empty pens either side. thanks out if interest what are you saying throughout all this? i know you blame the police but are you on the monumental fuck up side or do you see something more nefarious? Personally I see it as a massive fuck up on the part of the police, who regarded football fans at the time as nothing but hooligans and bar a few exceptions failed at their jobs. There were a handful of young coppers who tried to help, but the majority of them fucked up. And the Chief Super David Duckenfield fucked up biggest of all. The organisation of policing the game on the day was flawed from start to finish. fact is, the police at Hillsborough were well practised at handling big footballl grounds, this ground had played host to FA Cup Semi Finals for many years, including other Liverpool games. Blaming the police for failing to control what was an extortionate amount of Liverpool supporters, is akin to blaming them for failing to control a demonstration in a city centre - anywhere - where too many people turn up in proportion to the amount of police present. Nobody seems to blame the vast amount of Liverpool fans who turned up for this game without tickets. What was their intention ? To batter down the gates or sit outside the stadium listening peacefully to the game on radio 5 ? crux of the matter mate, actual numbers vs expected - i'd love to know

get a grip man why do you disagree ? his business model was for us to be in the bottom 3 in early april was it? there's a huge difference between frustratingly incompetent decision making and "a plan" as we saw with FS the man is fucking up royally, to say he's following a plan is mental - i don't even think he's following his original financial plan due to a number of external factors that have occurred since he bought the club, never mind any football plan he might have had that's why and it gives him precisely 0% credit before you start I said business model, not football model. He thought that we would always get capacity crowds, or close to, whatever our league position, and probably thought we always had had capacity crowds. In other words he was a clueless tosspot like many other people. What he doesn't understand - like many other people - is that the success on the pitch drives the success of the business [in an industry where very few clubs if any make profits] and not the other way around. I've seen many blind views on these message boards over the years, but the blind and misunderstood hatred of the old regime is by far the worst, which I could understand up to a point by those who didn't know any different, but what amazes me now is the amount of people still clinging to it, and attempting to justify Ashley watching the team go down and down while clinging to his "plan", whatever it is. you didn't read a single fucking word i wrote did you? i'm so disappointed in myself that i even got involved again, find someone else mate i know you talk a modicum of sense but i'm refusing to be ignored in discussions these days...if you want to acknowledge the precipice the club was on before ashley bought it then we'll talk otherwise lets carry on with the detente, i prefer it that way of course I read what you said..........but I think his "plan" is first and foremost to just make a profit. Throw in lots of football related knowledge he didn't have, and you get out what we have now. Basically, I agree with what cp40 is saying. He has misjudged our support in terms of the extent of it, foolishly thinking we would draw those crowds whatever happened, and decided he would spend less and just stay in the premirership. All he had to do was look at the history books and he would have seen that it was the old regime who attracted the crowds back to the club, sadly Ashley is driving them out again. PROFIT? still? really? are you dr manhattan or something? it's not rocket science, this like. evidently your inability to understand what profit means is I do understand. I also understood what would happen to the club when it became clear to me what path Ashley was going to try and take. so, you understand no-one is currently making a profit, nor are they likely to in the very near future?

get a grip man why do you disagree ? his business model was for us to be in the bottom 3 in early april was it? there's a huge difference between frustratingly incompetent decision making and "a plan" as we saw with FS the man is fucking up royally, to say he's following a plan is mental - i don't even think he's following his original financial plan due to a number of external factors that have occurred since he bought the club, never mind any football plan he might have had that's why and it gives him precisely 0% credit before you start I said business model, not football model. He thought that we would always get capacity crowds, or close to, whatever our league position, and probably thought we always had had capacity crowds. In other words he was a clueless tosspot like many other people. What he doesn't understand - like many other people - is that the success on the pitch drives the success of the business [in an industry where very few clubs if any make profits] and not the other way around. I've seen many blind views on these message boards over the years, but the blind and misunderstood hatred of the old regime is by far the worst, which I could understand up to a point by those who didn't know any different, but what amazes me now is the amount of people still clinging to it, and attempting to justify Ashley watching the team go down and down while clinging to his "plan", whatever it is. you didn't read a single fucking word i wrote did you? i'm so disappointed in myself that i even got involved again, find someone else mate i know you talk a modicum of sense but i'm refusing to be ignored in discussions these days...if you want to acknowledge the precipice the club was on before ashley bought it then we'll talk otherwise lets carry on with the detente, i prefer it that way of course I read what you said..........but I think his "plan" is first and foremost to just make a profit. Throw in lots of football related knowledge he didn't have, and you get out what we have now. Basically, I agree with what cp40 is saying. He has misjudged our support in terms of the extent of it, foolishly thinking we would draw those crowds whatever happened, and decided he would spend less and just stay in the premirership. All he had to do was look at the history books and he would have seen that it was the old regime who attracted the crowds back to the club, sadly Ashley is driving them out again. PROFIT? still? really? are you dr manhattan or something? it's not rocket science, this like. evidently your inability to understand what profit means is

what does that even mean? He will reduce spending, till he breaks even, or makes a profit, regardless of where that has the team ending up. We could be relegated a couple of times while he makes the club self sufficient. Please tell me you can understand that. Shall i draw you a picture? you're talking about him reducing an asset worth 250m when he bought down to lets say 70m so yeah, maybe you'd better draw me a picture He couldnt find a buyer so he has switched to plan B,.. stop spending money , consolidate his loss. He will run the club without a loss, could see us in the Championship, or league 1. This is really straightforward, are you not well or something? "consolidate his loss"? jesus you believe this don't you? he'll lose 100m the moment we go down, where's the consolidation? Well thats the big mistake , nobody can understand. Ive said it else where, If hed backed Keegan, with 30 or 40 million, it would have actually cost him nowt, in relative terms. But to answer your question, yes he will lose 100 million or so,. he will consolidate by not spending anymore,..theres nothing difficult to understand there?. you may not agree, I absolutely dont, im just pointing out what i think hes up to,. I could be wrong, i hope i am, but everything i see, suggest Im not wrong. i'd say that depends entirely on the manager, and his track record so far is exemplary well i'm not gonna say you're wrong 'cause i can't fathom fuck all about this shit but anyone who who "consolidate" by losing what he's about to lose is patently insane, if that's what he's doing! Ok , pehaps, consolidate was the wrong word. Ashley, will stop losing money, by not spending anymore. Is that plain enough for you. And by the way. Yes i know , his asset will depreciate, with this plan. But he will not lose anymore money, if he spends none, and runs the business at break even, or a profit. Surely you can get your brain around that. dude i know what you're saying all along and if it was a ford cortina we were talking about that needed a new gearbox i'd agree, but for a man to invest 250m+ and then remain motionless as it could potentially be reduced to 0 is unfathomable in my mind i think you're right, to a small extent; i think he'll outlay the smallest amount of money possible to keep us ticking over and potentially stay up/get promoted but i can't allow the thought to enter my mind that he'd let what you're saying happen it's surely never happened in the history of business nevermind football/sport? It does seem absurd, its the only thoery i can find that fits whats going on. that he has accepted , he has made a huge loss on his purchase, and wont lose anymore money on it. And that he will not invest, in attempt, to re establish the value in the business. In other words, he will not speculate, to recover his losses. fits in with the rest of his portfolio these days, agreed Assuming we are on the right lines, the question, is, where can this policy see us end up? Championship, or lower? i'd say that depends entirely on the manager, and his track record so far is exemplary

what does that even mean? He will reduce spending, till he breaks even, or makes a profit, regardless of where that has the team ending up. We could be relegated a couple of times while he makes the club self sufficient. Please tell me you can understand that. Shall i draw you a picture? you're talking about him reducing an asset worth 250m when he bought down to lets say 70m so yeah, maybe you'd better draw me a picture He couldnt find a buyer so he has switched to plan B,.. stop spending money , consolidate his loss. He will run the club without a loss, could see us in the Championship, or league 1. This is really straightforward, are you not well or something? "consolidate his loss"? jesus you believe this don't you? he'll lose 100m the moment we go down, where's the consolidation? Well thats the big mistake , nobody can understand. Ive said it else where, If hed backed Keegan, with 30 or 40 million, it would have actually cost him nowt, in relative terms. But to answer your question, yes he will lose 100 million or so,. he will consolidate by not spending anymore,..theres nothing difficult to understand there?. you may not agree, I absolutely dont, im just pointing out what i think hes up to,. I could be wrong, i hope i am, but everything i see, suggest Im not wrong. well i'm not gonna say you're wrong 'cause i can't fathom fuck all about this shit but anyone who who "consolidate" by losing what he's about to lose is patently insane, if that's what he's doing! Ok , pehaps, consolidate was the wrong word. Ashley, will stop losing money, by not spending anymore. Is that plain enough for you. And by the way. Yes i know , his asset will depreciate, with this plan. But he will not lose anymore money, if he spends none, and runs the business at break even, or a profit. Surely you can get your brain around that. dude i know what you're saying all along and if it was a ford cortina we were talking about that needed a new gearbox i'd agree, but for a man to invest 250m+ and then remain motionless as it could potentially be reduced to 0 is unfathomable in my mind i think you're right, to a small extent; i think he'll outlay the smallest amount of money possible to keep us ticking over and potentially stay up/get promoted but i can't allow the thought to enter my mind that he'd let what you're saying happen it's surely never happened in the history of business nevermind football/sport? It does seem absurd, its the only thoery i can find that fits whats going on. that he has accepted , he has made a huge loss on his purchase, and wont lose anymore money on it. And that he will not invest, in attempt, to re establish the value in the business. In other words, he will not speculate, to recover his losses. fits in with the rest of his portfolio these days, agreed

that photo guy ritchie?

get a grip man why do you disagree ? his business model was for us to be in the bottom 3 in early april was it? there's a huge difference between frustratingly incompetent decision making and "a plan" as we saw with FS the man is fucking up royally, to say he's following a plan is mental - i don't even think he's following his original financial plan due to a number of external factors that have occurred since he bought the club, never mind any football plan he might have had that's why and it gives him precisely 0% credit before you start I said business model, not football model. He thought that we would always get capacity crowds, or close to, whatever our league position, and probably thought we always had had capacity crowds. In other words he was a clueless tosspot like many other people. What he doesn't understand - like many other people - is that the success on the pitch drives the success of the business [in an industry where very few clubs if any make profits] and not the other way around. I've seen many blind views on these message boards over the years, but the blind and misunderstood hatred of the old regime is by far the worst, which I could understand up to a point by those who didn't know any different, but what amazes me now is the amount of people still clinging to it, and attempting to justify Ashley watching the team go down and down while clinging to his "plan", whatever it is. you didn't read a single fucking word i wrote did you? i'm so disappointed in myself that i even got involved again, find someone else mate i know you talk a modicum of sense but i'm refusing to be ignored in discussions these days...if you want to acknowledge the precipice the club was on before ashley bought it then we'll talk otherwise lets carry on with the detente, i prefer it that way of course I read what you said..........but I think his "plan" is first and foremost to just make a profit. Throw in lots of football related knowledge he didn't have, and you get out what we have now. Basically, I agree with what cp40 is saying. He has misjudged our support in terms of the extent of it, foolishly thinking we would draw those crowds whatever happened, and decided he would spend less and just stay in the premirership. All he had to do was look at the history books and he would have seen that it was the old regime who attracted the crowds back to the club, sadly Ashley is driving them out again. PROFIT? still? really? are you dr manhattan or something?

what does that even mean? He will reduce spending, till he breaks even, or makes a profit, regardless of where that has the team ending up. We could be relegated a couple of times while he makes the club self sufficient. Please tell me you can understand that. Shall i draw you a picture? you're talking about him reducing an asset worth 250m when he bought down to lets say 70m so yeah, maybe you'd better draw me a picture He couldnt find a buyer so he has switched to plan B,.. stop spending money , consolidate his loss. He will run the club without a loss, could see us in the Championship, or league 1. This is really straightforward, are you not well or something? "consolidate his loss"? jesus you believe this don't you? he'll lose 100m the moment we go down, where's the consolidation? Well thats the big mistake , nobody can understand. Ive said it else where, If hed backed Keegan, with 30 or 40 million, it would have actually cost him nowt, in relative terms. But to answer your question, yes he will lose 100 million or so,. he will consolidate by not spending anymore,..theres nothing difficult to understand there?. you may not agree, I absolutely dont, im just pointing out what i think hes up to,. I could be wrong, i hope i am, but everything i see, suggest Im not wrong. well i'm not gonna say you're wrong 'cause i can't fathom fuck all about this shit but anyone who who "consolidate" by losing what he's about to lose is patently insane, if that's what he's doing! Ok , pehaps, consolidate was the wrong word. Ashley, will stop losing money, by not spending anymore. Is that plain enough for you. And by the way. Yes i know , his asset will depreciate, with this plan. But he will not lose anymore money, if he spends none, and runs the business at break even, or a profit. Surely you can get your brain around that. dude i know what you're saying all along and if it was a ford cortina we were talking about that needed a new gearbox i'd agree, but for a man to invest 250m+ and then remain motionless as it could potentially be reduced to 0 is unfathomable in my mind i think you're right, to a small extent; i think he'll outlay the smallest amount of money possible to keep us ticking over and potentially stay up/get promoted but i can't allow the thought to enter my mind that he'd let what you're saying happen it's surely never happened in the history of business nevermind football/sport?

what does that even mean? He will reduce spending, till he breaks even, or makes a profit, regardless of where that has the team ending up. We could be relegated a couple of times while he makes the club self sufficient. Please tell me you can understand that. Shall i draw you a picture? you're talking about him reducing an asset worth 250m when he bought down to lets say 70m so yeah, maybe you'd better draw me a picture He couldnt find a buyer so he has switched to plan B,.. stop spending money , consolidate his loss. He will run the club without a loss, could see us in the Championship, or league 1. This is really straightforward, are you not well or something? "consolidate his loss"? jesus you believe this don't you? he'll lose 100m the moment we go down, where's the consolidation? Well thats the big mistake , nobody can understand. Ive said it else where, If hed backed Keegan, with 30 or 40 million, it would have actually cost him nowt, in relative terms. But to answer your question, yes he will lose 100 million or so,. he will consolidate by not spending anymore,..theres nothing difficult to understand there?. you may not agree, I absolutely dont, im just pointing out what i think hes up to,. I could be wrong, i hope i am, but everything i see, suggest Im not wrong. well i'm not gonna say you're wrong 'cause i can't fathom fuck all about this shit but anyone who who "consolidate" by losing what he's about to lose is patently insane, if that's what he's doing!

Heard yesterday, that we were 5th when he took over. I dont know how anybody can be behind him and retain any credibility. 5th when he took over? Do you mean in the league? Because he bought us at the end of the season when we finished 13th. was thinking the same, even did the reverse alphabet in case he'd switched the league table at the start of the season, didn't work

what does that even mean? He will reduce spending, till he breaks even, or makes a profit, regardless of where that has the team ending up. We could be relegated a couple of times while he makes the club self sufficient. Please tell me you can understand that. Shall i draw you a picture? you're talking about him reducing an asset worth 250m when he bought down to lets say 70m so yeah, maybe you'd better draw me a picture He couldnt find a buyer so he has switched to plan B,.. stop spending money , consolidate his loss. He will run the club without a loss, could see us in the Championship, or league 1. This is really straightforward, are you not well or something? "consolidate his loss"? jesus you believe this don't you? he'll lose 100m the moment we go down, where's the consolidation?

what does that even mean? He will reduce spending, till he breaks even, or makes a profit, regardless of where that has the team ending up. We could be relegated a couple of times while he makes the club self sufficient. Please tell me you can understand that. Shall i draw you a picture? precisely, and was becoming more and more obvious even before Keegan walked through the door. answer that with relation to my answer to cp40 then, please?

get a grip man why do you disagree ? his business model was for us to be in the bottom 3 in early april was it? there's a huge difference between frustratingly incompetent decision making and "a plan" as we saw with FS the man is fucking up royally, to say he's following a plan is mental - i don't even think he's following his original financial plan due to a number of external factors that have occurred since he bought the club, never mind any football plan he might have had that's why and it gives him precisely 0% credit before you start I said business model, not football model. He thought that we would always get capacity crowds, or close to, whatever our league position, and probably thought we always had had capacity crowds. In other words he was a clueless tosspot like many other people. What he doesn't understand - like many other people - is that the success on the pitch drives the success of the business [in an industry where very few clubs if any make profits] and not the other way around. I've seen many blind views on these message boards over the years, but the blind and misunderstood hatred of the old regime is by far the worst, which I could understand up to a point by those who didn't know any different, but what amazes me now is the amount of people still clinging to it, and attempting to justify Ashley watching the team go down and down while clinging to his "plan", whatever it is. you didn't read a single fucking word i wrote did you? i'm so disappointed in myself that i even got involved again, find someone else mate i know you talk a modicum of sense but i'm refusing to be ignored in discussions these days...if you want to acknowledge the precipice the club was on before ashley bought it then we'll talk otherwise lets carry on with the detente, i prefer it that way

what does that even mean? He will reduce spending, till he breaks even, or makes a profit, regardless of where that has the team ending up. We could be relegated a couple of times while he makes the club self sufficient. Please tell me you can understand that. Shall i draw you a picture? you're talking about him reducing an asset worth 250m when he bought down to lets say 70m so yeah, maybe you'd better draw me a picture

what does that even mean?

get a grip man why do you disagree ? his business model was for us to be in the bottom 3 in early april was it? there's a huge difference between frustratingly incompetent decision making and "a plan" as we saw with FS the man is fucking up royally, to say he's following a plan is mental - i don't even think he's following his original financial plan due to a number of external factors that have occurred since he bought the club, never mind any football plan he might have had that's why and it gives him precisely 0% credit before you start

chopra or shola, chopra or shola? said it before chopra had even played a game...still saying it now remarkably

anelka wouldn't have lasted 5 minutes at this madhouse 'cause he's not made of glass - coupla goals a a sniff of interest elsewhere he'd have been gone as he always done no-one's done that for owen 'cause his body gave out the moment he arrived

get a grip man

I raise you one: link fuck yeah, that one slipped my mind big time

Both, the turnstiles counted how many people went in, but the Chief Super David Duckenfield was stood in the control room with CCTV which could zoom into the Leppings Lane end so close that it could see the colour of a person's eyes. He could directly see how full each pen was and control how many fans went into which areas. Once the gate was opened that let people into Hillsbrough the turnstiles could not count how many people were in the ground could they? The fans had been allowed to bypass the turnstiles because of the crush outside which in previous years had been controlled by cordons and people arriving at different times, however the delayed traffic all arrived together and so there were many more people trying to get into the ground all at once before the match begun. It would have been obvious to the Chief Super that pens 3 and 4 were already full due to his access to the CCTV footage and previously to that game when the pens were full police and stewards were placed at the entrance of the tunnel to stop fans going through it into the pens and to direct the fans to the side pens. On that day the police were unable to explain why there was no-one placed at the tunnel to ensure that no more fans went into pens 3 and 4 and were instead directed into the relatively empty pens either side. thanks out if interest what are you saying throughout all this? i know you blame the police but are you on the monumental fuck up side or do you see something more nefarious? Personally I see it as a massive fuck up on the part of the police, who regarded football fans at the time as nothing but hooligans and bar a few exceptions failed at their jobs. There were a handful of young coppers who tried to help, but the majority of them fucked up. And the Chief Super David Duckenfield fucked up biggest of all. i think you've nailed it with this tbh...and at the risk of getting strung up i understand it, posted ages back that people really need to remember how bad fans were in those days and also how bad the police force were in the 80's (guildford, birmingham as the most high profile) the police in those days viewed anyone dodgy as an enemy and treated them accordingly...i mean they still do for fucks sake, look at the poor brazilian boy who got shot and how the inquiry to that went down i pride myself on being able to be able to see both sides of everything and i think that events and the behaviour of football fans late 70's onwards were always leading to this - imagine being the coppers outnumbered however many hundred to one by people they viewed as the enemy! not to excuse it but it is entirely understandable and that's that

Both, the turnstiles counted how many people went in, but the Chief Super David Duckenfield was stood in the control room with CCTV which could zoom into the Leppings Lane end so close that it could see the colour of a person's eyes. He could directly see how full each pen was and control how many fans went into which areas. Once the gate was opened that let people into Hillsbrough the turnstiles could not count how many people were in the ground could they? The fans had been allowed to bypass the turnstiles because of the crush outside which in previous years had been controlled by cordons and people arriving at different times, however the delayed traffic all arrived together and so there were many more people trying to get into the ground all at once before the match begun. It would have been obvious to the Chief Super that pens 3 and 4 were already full due to his access to the CCTV footage and previously to that game when the pens were full police and stewards were placed at the entrance of the tunnel to stop fans going through it into the pens and to direct the fans to the side pens. On that day the police were unable to explain why there was no-one placed at the tunnel to ensure that no more fans went into pens 3 and 4 and were instead directed into the relatively empty pens either side. thanks out if interest what are you saying throughout all this? i know you blame the police but are you on the monumental fuck up side or do you see something more nefarious?

i'd love to see a romantic style coaching boot room of rob lee, barton, solano, speed as first team coach and ketsbaia as manager fuck knows if any of them are any good but i'd dig it couldn't be any worse than what we've got now surely?

that you need to ask this question