mrmojorisin75

oh momma What on earth is your problem? You seem to be trying to rub people's noses in it because they disagreed with you on our chances of beating Spurs. Yet we haven't even played them yet i let it out earlier mate, the blindness that was prevalent in FEBRUARY (and all season really) when spurs had redknapp and had spent money on good players yet we were always gonna beat them 'cause we "always do" i offered good reasons back then why they'd demolish us, good reasons, but i forgot we "always beat" spurs right?

today's fiver: MOUTH TRAP As soon as his armoured alarm clock rang this morning, Giovanni O'Trapattoni unlocked his eyes, removed the safety clamps from his bed and ordered a squadron of bodyguards to fetch his bullet-proof dressing gown. After running a mine-sweeper across the carpet, the ultra-cautious Republic O'Ireland manager travelled in a cavalcade to his kitchen and poured cornflakes from a transparent box before coating them in milk freshly regurgitated by a hired tester. All pens and sharp objects having been removed from his padded home, the veteran technician set about drafting his game-plan for O'Ireland's forthcoming World Cup qualifier against Italy with two blocks of cheese and a packet of toilet roll, and still made more sense than he does in most press conferences. Pointedly wiping the gorgonzola with not three but four sheets of Andrex Extra Strength, O'Trapattoni made it clear he will be aiming for a 0-0 draw on Wednesday, as always. Then, dispensing with the dairy and hygiene products in favour of another prop, he used trusted mouthpiece Liam Brady to claim that the Azzurri are so scared of O'Ireland that they too are being extremely careful. "I know the Italian Federation, when they feel it's a difficult match, they like to take their games down south," droned Brady by way of explanation for the match being played in Bari, where Italy have never lost. "When they are much more confident, they play up north, so it's a good sign for us that we are playing there." The identity of the player whom Marcello Lippi has called up in place of the injured Antonio di Natale attests to just how frightened the Italians are of O'Ireland. "I will not be calling up anyone in place of Di Natale," drawled Lippi from a beach chair. Meanwhile in Belfast, euphoria over Norn Iron's 3-2 victory over Poland seemed to have died down as striker Warren Feeney donned the chastened expression of Jacqui Smith's husband and confessed to some rather embarrassing TV viewing. "We were sitting in our rooms on Saturday morning watching Football Focus," admitted a shame-faced Feeney before adding. "Mark Lawrenson and Martin Keown were having a pop at us, saying we had no quality in our side ... OK, they're entitled to their opinions but it really did give us an extra edge, if any were needed, to go out and beat the Poles." Lawrenson was unavailable for comment this afternoon. OK, he probably was, we just didn't bother asking him. Hopefully our attitude will catch on.

different role? maybe the cleaner...or an arkwright like character in ashleys club shop in his brown shopkeepers jacket peeping out the window at fat old nurses! works on a number of levels actually

oh momma

erm... a couple of posts back you asked - ...Because you asked me a question? sorry i'll be honest here and say i "perhaps" misunderstood the word propagation along these lines: http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/propagate?view=uk i.e. propaganda...i was asking for the link to the SYP propaganda but what i got was the testimony from an enquiry of a man who admitted he lied to cover up a mistake, they are two different things You're quite thick aren't you, son? son? how so?

33 was at games when i was a bairn (<8) albeit not big ones (15 or so)...in my time at toon games i've experienced all of the things madras describes at various places and spouted my venom at the police too, in the cold light of day i'm adult enough to see both sides of it you? Add 4 years or so, started going with my old man at the beginning of the eighties. I don't think there is anymore to add to this from me, I joined this thread knowing there had been cover-ups but unaware of the extent of these (I never knew the Chief police officer lied for a start). So i've gained a great deal in reading these posts, so cheers to Toonlass & Scouseman for their contributions. i joined this thread as i always do with what i grew up with; terrorism & football violence being two of the biggest things i remember during my formative years i remember the calls for justice on bloody sunday, i remember heysel & hillsborough, i remember violence between scotland & england when i was a tot, i remember the news talking about policemen getting concrete slabs dropped on their heads, i know what they did to the miners yet it's a failure of mine that i see context in everything would that i could read in plain black and white like a good historian should

8 goals in 8 games will have Capello under pressure to include him in the squad. Some journalists on yesterday's SS1 talk-in on the subject stated that it might not be Owen's form or injury problems that are keeping him out of the squad, but something dismissive he said to the media after his last appearance for England under Capello, a game which had people questioning Capello's tactics and use of substitutions. owen's form hasn't be good, i think it's 2 goals in 10 games for us now, that for a player who offer's nothing to the team show's he is not mr incredible goalscorer and player that some fan's and certainly pundits think he is i wouldn't put it past him going to the mls, cos I can't see many premiership offering anything like what owen will want, with his injury record i think he could only get a pay as you play contract mls don't know or care who he is - beckham broke america due to his wife, being tom cruise's "friend" & marketing fuck all else...they'd laugh owen out of negotiations besides his beloved stable and chopper pad is in wales or something...he'd play for cardiff before going to the states

I thought I'd just remind everyone how awful our tops for next season look like being. That away/3rd kit. Seriously, wtf is going on? after man city's kit this season i can't say i'm surprised like puma>umbro>this hells teeth

erm... a couple of posts back you asked - ...Because you asked me a question? sorry i'll be honest here and say i "perhaps" misunderstood the word propagation along these lines: http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/propagate?view=uk i.e. propaganda...i was asking for the link to the SYP propaganda but what i got was the testimony from an enquiry of a man who admitted he lied to cover up a mistake, they are two different things

33 was at games when i was a bairn (<8) albeit not big ones (15 or so)...in my time at toon games i've experienced all of the things madras describes at various places and spouted my venom at the police too, in the cold light of day i'm adult enough to see both sides of it you?

Not so sure about that anymore. The Bolton thing was a sign. palacios was fuckin immense yesterday, unless he gets injured i think they'll slowly start to pull it together with him chopping people up properly instead of fairy's like jenas and zokora keane will bag some goals as well...i WANT them to go down but they won't, they just won't Will you change your mind if they don't win a league game in March? i will if they don't win a league game by may! you looked at their fixtures? i haven't being honest, why do you mention march? hard month for them? remember 4/5 wins will get them to safety (probably), can't see how they won't beat 5 teams...unless they've played most of the shit already, but they can't have played it all They don't have a pretty run in like. I have and I see maybe one win for them in March and that's if Boro play shite. just looked, they've got 4 home games they'll win imo (inc us) and they'll scrape a draw or two on the road plus there's always a surprise or two, see where you're coming from though - it might be very close for them They'll beat us will they? Why's that then? this was primarily the post i was thinking of as it happens...blew it out of proportion in my miiiind but there were more from other people at the time

I've said that a few times. A little hint: people don't always mean what they say. What would you get out of finding it anyway? huh dude? what did they mean then when the argued with me line by line that we would beat spurs? i stand by what i write, even when i'm pissed and writing shite...surely everyone should do that or retract? (as i do when i'm sober) Sometimes people post things with their tongue in their cheek. i'm assuming you're one of the people i'm recalling? however there was no tongue in cheek in this...is there a tutorial about how to properly search old threads 'cause i think people who argued in january that we'd do spurs and stay up easily deserve outing personally I don't think I ever actually argued with you about it, I do enjoy saying we always beat spurs though. I did think we'd stay up easily come start of January tbh, I've got no shame in admitting it, everyone gets stuff wrong when trying to predict the future. I thought we'd spend more (some) money, have fewer injuries and generally play less like nincompoops. Looks like it wasn't to be. I reckon it's about 50-50 now, the fact that there are a fair few teams who could go down is in our favour, but it certainly looks grim. i searched and searched but i'm shit at it, there were people who slated me for saying spurs would do us back in january and when i pushed it was based on "we always beat them" nothing else madness, said it then and saying it again now not saying it was you by the way

So we should just allow the propagation of lies? exactly. proliferating lies leads too what? leads to being shot down on the times message board, basically can you show me where the south yorkshire police (who i can only presume you're talking about as opposed to some shithead on the times) have propagated lies please? someone else alluded to it in this thread and i let it slip but you've raised it again so i want to know now magpie or toonlass (whoever quotes the taylor report first where the police lied) ask yourself if you believe the word of the liverpool fans who were there that day too Duckenfield had told his first lie while the tragedy was still happening. Where do you think the Sun got it's lies from over the next few days? You can check all of this out in the Taylor report as the writer of this has. ""Chief Superintendent Duckenfield was the most senior policeman at Hillsborough on the 15th April 1989, the year of the disaster. He had virtually no experience of policing a big match, and was only drafted in a week or so before the match. This was because the police officer that had policed the game the year before, had been suspended after an initiation prank on a new P.C. ended with the new recruit being too traumatised to work. When a police force undertake an operation such as policing a football match, a detailed report is made that describes in minute detail what was done; by whom; at what time and how. This is called an operational order, and policing the match in 1989 should not have been too difficult to police for Duckenfield, as he has a complete, successfully carried out operational order from the year before. Crucially though, the Inspector decided to make changes to this operational order, and this, among other things led to the disaster. His first mistake was that despite his limited experience, he decided that he would go against the wisdom of the officer from the year before and decided that there was no need to have police officers posted at varying distances away from the ground. In 1988, police officers were posted at varying distances to check tickets, give directions, and in the event that too many fans arrived at a certain time, they could stem the flow towards the antiquated turnstiles and relieve the pressure. Without these officers, fans were left to head for the ground unchecked, and after bad motorway traffic, many fans arrived at the Leppings Lane end of the ground between 2pm and 2.30pm, and the turnstiles could not admit people quick enough. In the absence of the outer placed police officers, fans started to congregate around the turnstiles, but they were not able to admit people quick enough and a dangerous crush started to build outside the ground. After being asked several times over the radio by Murray, the most senior policeman outside the ground, Duckenfield next gave the order to open gate C. Gate C is an exit gate, and as such is designed to let thousands of people leave the ground quickly, but used in reverse it was lethal. Even at this stage, by following the previous year’s operation order, Duckenfield could have averted the disaster. In 1988, there were police officers posted at the entrance of each of the central pens (3+4) and once these pens were full, people we re-directed to the pens on the wings. In 1989, no direction was given. Fans were left to go down a tunnel that led them to the central pens, and once they were there the weight of fans from behind meant that they couldn’t go back. From his position in the police control box, Duckenfield could see the disaster unfolding. As a part of the subsequent investigation, people visited the police control box and testified that you could “see the colour of people’s eyes” such was the power of the zoom facility on the CCTV. So if this was the case, it was obviously possible to see people vomiting and turning blue as they were crushed against the perimeter fencing. Duckenfield would later testify that once he realised what he had caused he “froze” This version of events is the real truth of the Hillsborough, and why many officers on duty that day wrote in their report that there was no direction from the control box. Duckenfield had basically realised his mistakes, and presumably feared the consequences for him personally. His mind no doubt racing, he started to think of a way out for him and so when the referee stopped the game at 3.06pm and went to the police control box for information, instead of admitting his fatal errors and short comings, he lied. He told the referee and anyone else who would listen, that drunken Liverpool fans had turned up late and broken down gate C. A picture of mindless, drunk, ticket less yobs was painted in Duckenfield’s attempt to shift the blame. Later in court, he admitted that he had lied. By then, it was too late and the damage had been done. While Liverpool mourned its dead, Duckenfield’s lies had gathered a pace, and his self-preserving story was spun to the nation’s media. The following Tuesday or Wednesday, several newspapers ran the story that Duckenfield had fabricated, the worst offender by some distance was the Sun. Under the editorship of Kelvin MacKenzie. He ran a headline shouting “The Truth” and three bullet pointed sub headlines that read “Some fans pick-pocketed victims” “Some fans urinated on brave cops” “some fans beat up PC giving kiss of life” All of these headlines were later proven to be lies. I’ll say that again ALL OF THESE HEADLINES WERE LATER PROVED TO BE LIES but in a nation that is told what to think by the media, Liverpool fans had been painted as the villains of the piece. Even as MacKenzie laid out his front page, a senior ex-colleague could see what was happening and later described the story as “wrong” and “a classic smear” but complained that by this time “MacKenzie’s power was so complete that the only person capable of reining him in was Murdoch” """ long story short the police fuck up (tragically) then try to cover it up...noone pays from the police 'cause they shaft the innocents via the establishment media welcome to fucking england - anyone else buying a new england shirt? it's smart and white and that get in the fucking queue that doesn't mean they were right, nor does it mean there was any intent involved

Sorry, you've lost me. We were talking about the bloke on the comments section who was saying that Liverpool fans were responsible for breaking into the ground. You've now brought the whole South Yorkshire police into it, I don't recall the police ever saying that Liverpool fans smashed their way into the ground, or at least if they did, could you provide me with a link? It turns out they did... Regarding Chief Superintendent Duckenfield: 'when the referee stopped the game at 3.06pm and went to the police control box for information, instead of admitting his fatal errors and short comings, he lied. He told the referee and anyone else who would listen, that drunken Liverpool fans had turned up late and broken down gate C. A picture of mindless, drunk, ticket less yobs was painted in Duckenfield’s attempt to shift the blame. Later in court, he admitted that he had lied. By then, it was too late and the damage had been done.' The following contains a great deal of valuable information: link link me up to the bit where i say he never lied, or none of the other policemen lied - it was an institutional birthright back then...lucky the liverpool fans weren't black or irish or things might have been worse i've stated my case and you've stated yours and we both see no point in continuing then why are we?

What the fuck did they have to cover up? Honestly, Fuck this. aye, everyone was innocent that day except the police eh? honestly, fuck this

to be clear i don't believe the police, i've stated this elsewhere in this thread, nor do i believe the testimony of fans (not all, but some...generally the most public) as i am one and i'd have lied if i felt it necessary back then if something had happened that is my right, you believe what you want trying to cut this short but the pissing on the dead shit and stealing from the dead is a disgrace of course, would never try to defend that that nor would i want to

Sorry, you've lost me. We were talking about the bloke on the comments section who was saying that Liverpool fans were responsible for breaking into the ground. You've now brought the whole South Yorkshire police into it, I don't recall the police ever saying that Liverpool fans smashed their way into the ground, or at least if they did, could you provide me with a link? sorry mate you mentioned "the propagation of lies" iirc...someone else mentioned the south yorkshire police propaganda elsewhere in the thread just wondering what you were alluding to

So we should just allow the propagation of lies? exactly. proliferating lies leads too what? leads to being shot down on the times message board, basically can you show me where the south yorkshire police (who i can only presume you're talking about as opposed to some shithead on the times) have propagated lies please? someone else alluded to it in this thread and i let it slip but you've raised it again so i want to know now magpie or toonlass (whoever quotes the taylor report first where the police lied) ask yourself if you believe the word of the liverpool fans who were there that day too

So we should just allow the propagation of lies? exactly. proliferating lies leads too what? leads to being shot down on the times message board, basically can you show me where the south yorkshire police (who i can only presume you're talking about as opposed to some shithead on the times) have propagated lies please? someone else alluded to it in this thread and i let it slip but you've raised it again so i want to know now

the comments are worthless, one man spouts an untruth and gets shot down exactly. proliferating lies leads too what? leads to being shot down on the times message board, basically

munich disaster occurred to me a lot earlier in this thread; imagine the same thing with the great liverpool team(s) of the 70's/80's - whichever airline was involved would be buried in complaints and litigation to this day...

The key for me is getting a good manager in. and where do you think you're gonna find this key? up the tooth fairys arse?

the comments are worthless, one man spouts an untruth and gets shot down

whoooooooooop!