mrmojorisin75

surely to fuck the LMA will have a medical check in place? or the FA? EDIT: or the clubs insurance company

No. You will always get ticketless fans turning up at games, wether its getting tickets for other parts of the ground, tickets off touts or pole vaulting over the wall, it happens, especially an important game just down the road (in relation to Europe). The amount of ticketless fans would not of made a difference to the amount of fans already with tickets (judging by the empty sections in that end) that were allowed to swarm into an already full section once the doors were opened, and there would of still of been plenty of fans outside the ground unable to get in (with or without tickets). waffle, did the ticketless fans contribute to the problem? if they did they deserve a share of the blame divorce yourself from the emotion man, otherwise you'll never be able to analyse anything objectively the weight of the blame lies with the police, that is for sure, but they don't bear 100% of it and anyone who says they do should have a think

wonder what his release clause fee is?

It was the police's decision to open the gates and let in a large amount of liverpool fans, the police would of known that amongst these fans were fans without tickets, but opened the gate regardless. If they had delayed kick off and policed the turnstiles properly this tragedy would not have happened. You cannot blame ticketless fans who are given the chance to watch their team when they themselves are let into the ground by the police. they're not at the ground they're not involved, correct? so they had an effect on events and this must SHARE a portion of the blame you have to see this?

Proof that Milner is better than the current holder of world player of the year. FACT! Everyone can go fuck themselves! *fingers in ears whilst whistling* fuckin magic!

people really need to remember football fans in the '80's and the police force in the '80's both were a fucking disgrace to different extents and for different reasons - this was always going to happen to some team and to 'x' amount of people, it's was liverpool unfortunately for them

I can't remember the club being in over £250m of debt under FS like. Now it is and boy are we paying for it. The debt levels under FS were worrying but manageable all the same. Unlike Ashley who it appears doesn't recognise at all the seriousness of the situation we are in, FS did hence the appointment of Sam Allardyce, a manager capable of doing wonders on a small budget and building from the bottom up. Oh and when the club goes down.... it will make the level of debt we were in under FS seem like pennies. So much for Ashley's plan eh. We are not £250 million in debt. Ashley paid about £130 million for the club and has loaned at least £120 mllion since. The amount paid for the club is not debt. The question that will not go away, it has been asked on here several times but no one can answer it, is how would the previous board have financed the club if they had still been in control? The glib answer that all successful football clubs have debt does not cut it, other clubs have debt because someone is prepared to lend it, meaning that they can demonstrate to the lender that the debt is secured and has a prospect of repayment. Who would have loaned us more money in the situation we were in? It is like you have a 100% mortgage on your house, everything in your house (furniture, kitchen appliances etc) and your car are bought on HP - plus your annual income is less than than your annual costs. Now go and find someone to lend you some money in the current climate to allow you to speculate to accumulate... There are people on this board, like me, who aren't Ashley believers. In my case I think he is a chancer who made some money floating a chain of downmarket sports retail shops at a grossly inflated value. He has bought us to show off to his mates and is now way out of his depth. We all know that there are indefensible actions relating to the Ashley regime. But until someone answers the above fundamental question about the previous regime it is hard to put the current shambles into perspective. superb post quayside, gets to the heart of the matter...i'm with you on all points is it possible for someone to get a clock up on the banner of the site adding up the days/hours/minutes 'til this question is answered? it'll need to run pretty fucking high mind

"force him"

this

amazed no-one's brought heysel into this yet, so i will who's to "blame" there then? juve fans? liverpool fans? the fence? the wall? the police? you likely don't know 'cause it ain't on the scousers drum to beat - i imagine this will sound incredibly heartless to the princess diana tears and tiaras brigade but it's how i feel...they should carry themselves with a quiet dignity now imo yet given their proclivities for theatrics that's not likely to ever happen just don't see what it's serving now, they're looking for another inquiry i presume?...have memorials & move on as best you can, nothing is ever gained by standing still in life and dwelling on tragedy

choatic country, chaotic players & management imo (sweeping generalisation i'm aware but i'll bet there's a large element of truth)

I don't get what you mean. If you reduce the operating costs you already cover the drop in income, because income is used to pay the operating costs.. Plus when you sell the player you not only reduce costs through cutting wages but you also bring money in through transfer fees (if you get a fee that is). My point is we won't need to sell half the squad to break even if we reduce the costs enough to begin with. I’m not surprised. It confuses the hell out of me. There‘s three ‘separate’ losses in the event of relegation. The fall in TV revenue (£44m) The fall in gate receipts and corporate stuff (£19) The predicated operating loss if we’d stayed up (£7m) Grand total of to break even next season if we go down, £70m. Now forget Owen. His wages have already been paid upfront with the Northern Rock sponsorship money, and having him off the wage bill would have already been factored into the predicted £7m loss for next season. The same goes for Viduka and probably Geremi who is also out of contract at the end of the season. So if we are to break even we have to find £40m (after parachute payments) to break even. <pause for inevitable quibbling> He's creating an efficient business mate. Doesn't really matter what league we are in or anything, he's just creating an efficient business. Many people on here wanted this. So they ought to be happy with it. Good old Mike, and the "plan" he had which his predecessors never had, ever. We might get some good away trips at Blackpool, Bournemouth, Southend and Plymouth in the next few years. who ? as i remember it most just saw that we couldn't just go on racking up more and more debt year on year. as plenty other clubs have come to realise. why bother? I could say the same. Particularly when you - and he - knows perfectly well that my statement that the vast majority of this board disagreed with me is true, and thought that Ashley looking to make profits rather than show ambition on the pitch was the way to go. i meant why bother continuing the same old shit anyhow as someone else pointed out before the man hasn't made a profit has he - in fact he's a huge a loss, many of us know the reasons behind this and can acknowledge them but i won't go into that as it only enables you dude

i got that yeah, others didn't as ever!

nah, it was the other scooter thing aye...that and the copper who was stabbed, italian football is a fuckin disgrace

put the scooter thing into google, fucking diabolical i actually did it after checking this thread then forgot to post it...bollox anyhow, put scooter and hooligans or something into google

torres is surely the finest lone striker there has ever been? pair him up he goes to shit a bit, on his own he's unplayable

This fucking attitude pisses me off tbh, appeasors and appologists like you, people who try to talk as if they are the voice of reason, but really have no fucking clue. Some of the crap you post, is mind boggingly niave. It's not too late to take a chance, there's 8 games left, bring a new guy in, get a honeymoon period of 2 or 3 wins, ala BSA at blackburn, Sbriga at the dirty mackems and many, many more examples, even Souness here !! And you're well on your way to getting out of this mess. The crime here is not to act and to sleepwalk into relegation, we are going down without a bloody fight atm. Whoah there cowboy! The situation is basically this: 1) Kinnear will be back soon. I know he's shit but in the club's view he is the manager. 2) They don't want to get rid of Kinnear, even though they should. BTW, I've said they should use this an excuse to out him before, so to call me naive is stupid. Those two things together mean that the club believe that they only have to cope for a couple of games more until Kinnear returns. You and I know things probably won't get any better when he's back - but I'm dealing with the reality of the situation as the club see it. If that's 'crap' or 'mind boggingly naive' (whatever mindbogging is!), then fair enough... I plead guilty. think this sentence reads badly, i know what you mean...nothing WILL happen but to say it's too late at this stage ain't right dude

this

Cracking Shout Messi and then Dani Alves for me. guy writes the spanish football in the guardian raves about alves, says he's the best thing since messi... really want to see more of them play Sid Lowe? Alves is brilliant. yeah sid lowe, dude knows his shit...good writin that

can't understand the hate ? he's here for exactly the same reason as the rest in that we were the best available option at the time. oh, it's cause he's a massive part in our current predicament, in every sense never wanted to be here & would have been gone already given a sniff of a chance same goes for the vast majority of the squad no, it doesn't due to the size of the fee & wages vs return on said investment but i see what you're saying any decent human being would have signed a contract extension with us given what he's provided in terms of value...he hasn't, says it all hope he rots "Hope he rots"? Good god, man. It's only a game. I like how he says he's hated him being here, then says he should sign a contract extension. i didn't say i wanted either doofus, i was suggesting the man should have shown loyalty that's all So if he signs on you'll be pleased? not in the slightest, you? So i assume you're also annoyed that Boumsong, Luque etc are not still playing for us also. As they didnt provide value for money either did they...so they should have kept playing until they did so ? In reality any annoyance towards owen having not signed an extension also shows that you must still have a certain level of belief in his ability. Anyway, there are players all over the place that have not been value for money. If it doesnt work for them they move on & try something new. Hardly disgraceful that Owen might do the same, the only reason our fans are annoyed by it is because we're sh*t & they know that he has the potential to be great. christ 1. of course i'm annoyed by boumsong/luque etc but we shipped them FOR FEES before they walked away from the club for nothing on fractions of what owens "earned" 2. he has ability, the contract extension thing is about his integrity not his ability (or fitness) 3. how many have contributed so much to the decline of their club financially? Fees we shipped them for were near nothing on what we bought them for. So they earned less than owen ? They also provided less than owen. It could easily be said that owen was the main reason we survived relegation last season (How much would we have lost then?) & considering hes our top scorer this season....a big part of the reason we're not already relegated this season. You cannot solely look at negatives and fail to see any possible positives he has given our club. Not a very balanced point of view is it. I fail to see why he owes us anything, we paid him ridiculous amounts in the hope that he would be brilliant for us. He hasnt been for long periods due to injury which is neither sides fault. Why does he owe us ? He took what we offered like anyone with half a brain & hoped that it would be beneficial to both sides. Again it hasnt been.....so why would he keep hacking away at it here when he could get a fresh start elsewhere ? He doesnt owe us because we were wasteful with our money & spent it on a player who has been out through no fault of his own. 1,2,3 again then: 1. we're "shipping" owen for 17m less than we paid, and lord only knows how much in wages...see what you're saying but i simply don't agree; the 30m+ spent elsewhere would have meant we we nowhere near where we are now, spent wisely of course 2. i see very few positives so don't dwell on them, it's call realism & balance...in the last four years owen's negatives vs positives are palpable 3. i didn't say he owed us, i said a decent human being would have done something, 2 different things...still he's paid for his stable so good luck him him eh?

Cracking Shout Messi and then Dani Alves for me. guy writes the spanish football in the guardian raves about alves, says he's the best thing since messi... really want to see more of them play

kaka been good? not followed milan, how're they doing?

torres? that was last year

can't understand the hate ? he's here for exactly the same reason as the rest in that we were the best available option at the time. oh, it's cause he's a massive part in our current predicament, in every sense never wanted to be here & would have been gone already given a sniff of a chance same goes for the vast majority of the squad no, it doesn't due to the size of the fee & wages vs return on said investment but i see what you're saying any decent human being would have signed a contract extension with us given what he's provided in terms of value...he hasn't, says it all hope he rots "Hope he rots"? Good god, man. It's only a game. I like how he says he's hated him being here, then says he should sign a contract extension. i didn't say i wanted either doofus, i was suggesting the man should have shown loyalty that's all So if he signs on you'll be pleased? not in the slightest, you? So i assume you're also annoyed that Boumsong, Luque etc are not still playing for us also. As they didnt provide value for money either did they...so they should have kept playing until they did so ? In reality any annoyance towards owen having not signed an extension also shows that you must still have a certain level of belief in his ability. Anyway, there are players all over the place that have not been value for money. If it doesnt work for them they move on & try something new. Hardly disgraceful that Owen might do the same, the only reason our fans are annoyed by it is because we're sh*t & they know that he has the potential to be great. christ 1. of course i'm annoyed by boumsong/luque etc but we shipped them FOR FEES before they walked away from the club for nothing on fractions of what owens "earned" 2. he has ability, the contract extension thing is about his integrity not his ability (or fitness) 3. how many have contributed so much to the decline of their club financially?

can't understand the hate ? he's here for exactly the same reason as the rest in that we were the best available option at the time. oh, it's cause he's a massive part in our current predicament, in every sense never wanted to be here & would have been gone already given a sniff of a chance same goes for the vast majority of the squad no, it doesn't due to the size of the fee & wages vs return on said investment but i see what you're saying any decent human being would have signed a contract extension with us given what he's provided in terms of value...he hasn't, says it all hope he rots "Hope he rots"? Good god, man. It's only a game. I like how he says he's hated him being here, then says he should sign a contract extension. i didn't say i wanted either doofus, i was suggesting the man should have shown loyalty that's all So if he signs on you'll be pleased? not in the slightest, you? Not bothered either way really, because I know if he signs on again his wages will be much lower. He can never win in your eyes though, that was my point. He leaves and he's unloyal he stays and he's a waste of money. It's been the same for ages, he talks to press then gets shot down for making empty promises, he doesn't talk to the press and he's uncommitted. you know this how? he could win in my eyes by having never signed for us, by not taking a helicopter to work, by knowing IN ADVANCE he shouldn't have rushed to the WC when he wasn't ready shit like that the lad gives 100% on the pitch and is a great goalscorer on his day, i will however reserve the right to hate his guts for the negative effect he's had on the club since arriving in the same way i do souness neither of them wanted to fuck us, they both did though