Derby 1 - 0 Newcastle United - 17/09/07 - Post match reaction from page 19

[Yorkie]

Allardyce:

 

"The sad thing is that we had 14 players away on international duty and and that looked apparent.

 

"Before the break we were on a roll after the Wigan win, but some of the players looked jaded.

 

"We had opportunities, but we didn't take them and we were beaten by a wonder goal."

 

Sorry Sam, but I just don't buy that I'm afraid. If anything we've been in the best position of the weekend playing on Monday.

 

I don't either. A textbook old pro manager excuse after international week.

 

He's not exactly going to relay the phonetic massacre that he's just offered his players, five minutes previous in the changing room, is he.

[Ikon]

Not that motivated about going to work tomorrow =/ ...Well if we win against West Ham this game will soon be forgotten..

[JH]

Can only imagine what happens in that training complex every week

 

Allardyce: "aha! I've got it, the perfect plan. Why don't I play Smith, Butt and Geremi together? It's perfect, we'll definitely win"

 

[Guest Chris P]

aye ha'way the whitley mags ,and good night

 

[Spider Jerusalem]

Total embarassment - to lose so convincingly against the whipping boys of the league shows just how much grit these lot have.  As usual we turn up at a ground where the team is desparate for points and gift wrap and tie them up with a nice bow.  It wasn't even a case of who had a good game but who was the least shit.  We were incapable of stringing three passes together and didn't create a single chance in the second half.  It was hard to see who the odds on relegation candidates were at times.

 

Somebody needs to be given a good kick up the backside before the next match - starting with the man who has put this shower of shit together.

[Isegrim]

Allardyce:

 

"The sad thing is that we had 14 players away on international duty and and that looked apparent.

 

"Before the break we were on a roll after the Wigan win, but some of the players looked jaded.

 

"We had opportunities, but we didn't take them and we were beaten by a wonder goal."

 

Sorry Sam, but I just don't buy that I'm afraid. If anything we've been in the best position of the weekend playing on Monday.

 

I don't either. A textbook old pro manager excuse after international week.

 

The players who looked worst weren't even involved in internationals, i.e. Butt and Ameobi. Smith didn't play either. But at least Sam acknowledged that the players were bad and didn't too much talk up the performance. Just that his explanation for the crapness is more than questionable.

[johnnypd]

some points:

 

i've changed my mind about smith, i used to think he was an average player and shit signing, now i think he's a shit player and an abysmal signing, about the level of a luque or marcelino so far. as a midfielder he's a poor man's scott parker so should never play anywhere else but upfront. taylor did 10 times more going forward and that is saying something considering he is a centre-half.

 

people criticising Ameobi are maybe missing the point, the blame should go to Allardyce for his simplistic and ignorant "big man, small man" tactics. ameobi might be tall and strong but he is no target man, in fact, he's pretty woeful in this position. essentially, he is the same type of player as Owen, a good striker in the penalty area, can pop up with a few goals, crap general play and the further away from the box he is, the worse he becomes. yet Allardyce has been fooled by his physique and thought he could play as a support striker, he can't. perhaps if Allardyce had EVER seen Ameobi play as support striker, say alongside shearer or martins, he'd see that he looks awful. hopefully Allardyce has learned his lesson but i doubt it.

 

Zoggy and Milner tried the hardest to create for us but both had poor games. Zoggy's final ball was terrible but he's coming from left-back so is often forced into a rash, early ball by the mass ranks in front of him. he should've been pushed up fairly early on, sticking milner on the right, but it never really happened.

 

lack of pace is endemic in this side, milner and smith down the wings? jesus wept! as Baggio pointed out earlier, Owen thrives on pace, whether it comes from an attacking midfielder, a winger or a support striker, stretching teams, causing disorganisation and opening space. there was none of that tonight. anyone who has seen Derby play can see they are uncomfortable with pace yet Martins is left on the bench. Derby are vulnerable to quick attacks, either a forward pass played down the middle or a surging run, Jenas for spurs earlier in the season for instance. there was none of this from us, the central midfielders never pressed on and rarely if ever offered forward passes. of course owen and ameobi didn't offer much movement or peeling away from their markers. If Viduka is out for the next match then Martins should perhaps start with Owen, at least he can work the channels (as he is increasingly doing under allardyce) and pull sides apart with pace.

 

as well as drive from midfield, we're also lacking vision and class on the ball. others have echoed how awful Butt was, not just in a defensive sense but his attempts at canny chips and through balls were embarrasing. the corner flag doesn't play for newcastle nicky! Geremi can move the ball about well but should never be relied upon to be our main creator of chances, he's a watercarrier, no more.

 

Rozehnal struggled really, really badly tonight. perhaps some might be suprised but ive noticed little weaknesses in his game in the previous matches so tonight, against a pumped up, dirty, physical side, is no shock.

 

also, people are saying that it is only a few games into Allardyce's reign and that it is obvious that not all problems will be solved and that we're in transition. true, but many of tonights problems have been caused by Allardyce's influence, for instance the two defensive midfielders, or smith down the right, would dyer or solano put in such a poor performance there? this game puts the other results into context, we've only played convincingly against bolton, cloggers who on early form are one of the most hopeless and uninspired sides in the league.

[S.S.R.]

I'm convinced Allardyce has accidentally used indelible marker on the dry wipe board, and won't change the midfield 'cos he's too embarrassed to admit it.

[Guest bluegeordie]

Harper 5 - didn't do much wrong ... or right

 

Taylor 5.5 - tried hard, and at least he had a bit of a physical presence in a defence that I thought looked lightweight tonight 

 

Rozenhal 6 - a disappointing miss in front of goal, but showed initiative throughout, and continues to look classy, despite a few slip-ups in possession

 

Cacapa 6 - didn't inspire as much confidence as in his previous performances, but reasonably solid overall, and I still thought there were a few examples when his reading of the play and positioning were solid

 

Zoggy 4 - didn't have his shooting ice skates - I mean boots - on tonight, but at least he never stopped trying to make something happen, even amidst the nightmare he was having

 

Smith 2 - about as useful as a fart in a spacesuit when he's played in the midfield, and especially out wide ... he should be no more than a reserve striker for us in my opinion, which is why I regard him as a rather expensive, if not totally unnecessary, signing ... as for the captain's armband - who knows, maybe it was to distract him from his inevitable efforts to secure a second yellow?   

 

Butt 2 - Cardiff Mark II, tbh. Enough said. 

 

Geremi 5 - not as bad as some in terms of holding possession, but truly woeful set pieces, and from memory it was he who was most to blame for allowing the ball to bounce in the lead-up to Miller's goal 

 

Milner 6 - as usual, he at least tried hard to make things happen, but it just didn't, well, happen 

 

Owen 5 - "you cannot make bricks without clay" (i.e. the service was pathetic), and he did set up our only clear chance (for Rozy) ... if he wasn't injured, then I disagree with him being subbed, especially when the inept snow walker along side him stayed on the pitch 

 

Ameobi 2 - as useful as two farts in a space suit ... after a big night out at a curry house! On the basis of his "performance", numerous saints were allegedly seen to leave the ground early, mumbling about having lost something that they never expect to see return - namely (misplaced) patience   

 

Faye 5 - precisely what he was supposed to add to the mix at that stage of the game, heaven only knows

 

Beye 5 - could be forgiven for wondering what the hell he's let himself in for ... but hopefully it won't stay that way

 

Big Sam ?!? - unfathomable decisions tbh, so difficult to rate ... but on the surface of things the number zero springs to mind

       

Basic lessons to be learned:

 

1) without wanting to sound overly harsh, Ameobi should be donated to science

 

2) Smith is lost and ineffective in midfield, and having him run around doing an "American Psycho" impersonation is unlikely to open up opposition defences

 

3) a midfield including Smith, Butt, and Geremi has no creativity or attacking threat whatsoever

 

4) we need Barton or Emre back badly, and Zoggy should be pushed into the midfield in the interim ... so, asap, release The Bull

 

5) Martins isn't getting a fair deal imo, and surely it's at least worth seeing how he and Owen fare together 

 

6) most obvious of all, and not surprisingly, we have a loooooooong way to go before we're going to get to where we want to be 

[ohmelads]

That performance worries me. The result is poor, but the performance was probably as bad as anything we produced last season and that's some statement. Owen only got 14 touches of the ball against Derby.

 

There is very little flair in this Newcastle team, and while I doubt we'll produce a worse performance than that again this season, a lot of what we saw today was in evidence against Villa and Boro. A lack of flair and pace means we're trying to blag results, pumping it long, fighting for second balls and trying to nick something from a set piece, and that'll only get you so far. I won't single out any individuals for criticism because we performed poorly as a team.

 

Derby were very lucky to finish the game with 11 players on the pitch and some of the refereeing and linesmanship was incredible. Rozehnal was rugby tackled in front of the referee, the ball even bounced off him as it happened yet the ref seemed to pretend he hadn't seen it. It happened again, and then again and again. Michael Owen was also offside while two yards inside his own half, apparently. We were hard done by to say the least, but we don't deserve any sympathy, not after that performance.

 

Both the manager and his players have been talking themselves up over the last couple of weeks, ever since Owen's 87th minute winner against Wigan. Too much of the talking has been done in the media and not enough on the pitch, and they've all been taken down a peg or two. So have we as fans. The club has made strides forwards, but time will tell whether we've moved the first team significantly forwards or simply built up an abundance of mediocrity. Allardyce has a job on his hands, and for all the experience, height and strength he's brought in, we're lacking the flair and pace to put teams like Derby away.

 

Tactically we are looking increasingly like Bolton and I don't like the sound of that. When Allardyce joined I had mixed feelings. He's proven himself as a very good manager at what he does and that style of football is suited to underdogs, but the million dollar question was whether or not, given greater financial backing, he could move away from his underdog tactics and build a team to play top quality football. The jury is still very much out on that one. The summer signings point to progress, but are we simply progressing into a rich man's Bolton?

 

We'll have to pick ourselves up soon because there are tough games around the corner, much tougher than this one. The chairman, manager and players may have changed, but this was the same old Newcastle. Old habits die hard. This may be true of Newcastle, but I fear it could also be true of Allardyce.

[Parky]

some points:

 

i've changed my mind about smith, i used to think he was an average player and shit signing, now i think he's a shit player and an abysmal signing, about the level of a luque or marcelino so far. as a midfielder he's a poor man's scott parker so should never play anywhere else but upfront. taylor did 10 times more going forward and that is saying something considering he is a centre-half.

 

people criticising Ameobi are maybe missing the point, the blame should go to Allardyce for his simplistic and ignorant "big man, small man" tactics. ameobi might be tall and strong but he is no target man, in fact, he's pretty woeful in this position. essentially, he is the same type of player as Owen, a good striker in the penalty area, can pop up with a few goals, crap general play and the further away from the box he is, the worse he becomes. yet Allardyce has been fooled by his physique and thought he could play as a support striker, he can't. perhaps if Allardyce had EVER seen Ameobi play as support striker, say alongside shearer or martins, he'd see that he looks awful. hopefully Allardyce has learned his lesson but i doubt it.

 

Zoggy and Milner tried the hardest to create for us but both had poor games. Zoggy's final ball was terrible but he's coming from left-back so is often forced into a rash, early ball by the mass ranks in front of him. he should've been pushed up fairly early on, sticking milner on the right, but it never really happened.

 

lack of pace is endemic in this side, milner and smith down the wings? jesus wept! as Baggio pointed out earlier, Owen thrives on pace, whether it comes from an attacking midfielder, a winger or a support striker, stretching teams, causing disorganisation and opening space. there was none of that tonight. anyone who has seen Derby play can see they are uncomfortable with pace yet Martins is left on the bench. Derby are vulnerable to quick attacks, either a forward pass played down the middle or a surging run, Jenas for spurs earlier in the season for instance. there was none of this from us, the central midfielders never pressed on and rarely if ever offered forward passes. of course owen and ameobi didn't offer much movement or peeling away from their markers. If Viduka is out for the next match then Martins should perhaps start with Owen, at least he can work the channels (as he is increasingly doing under allardyce) and pull sides apart with pace.

 

as well as drive from midfield, we're also lacking vision and class on the ball. others have echoed how awful Butt was, not just in a defensive sense but his attempts at canny chips and through balls were embarrasing. the corner flag doesn't play for newcastle nicky! Geremi can move the ball about well but should never be relied upon to be our main creator of chances, he's a watercarrier, no more.

 

Rozehnal struggled really, really badly tonight. perhaps some might be suprised but ive noticed little weaknesses in his game in the previous matches so tonight, against a pumped up, dirty, physical side, is no shock.

 

also, people are saying that it is only a few games into Allardyce's reign and that it is obvious that not all problems will be solved and that we're in transition. true, but many of tonights problems have been caused by Allardyce's influence, for instance the two defensive midfielders, or smith down the right, would dyer or solano put in such a poor performance there? this game puts the other results into context, we've only played convincingly against bolton, cloggers who on early form are one of the most hopeless and uninspired sides in the league.

 

Excellent post. Summed up the main failings to a tee.

 

Also def deep teams like Derby don't mind the ball going wide as it gives them another tempo beat to organise the defence...I think you mentioned somewhere that pace through the middle is the biggest threat as they don't have time to organise and lose positional awareness in the melee.

 

Why in the name of god isn't Zoggy playing further up the park, any no of clowns can fill in at LB against a side like Derby.

[Cronky]

Harper 7 - Did all that could be asked of him.

Taylor 5 - Struggled manfully, but isn't a full back. Unable to support the attack well enough.

Cacapa 6 - Did okay

Rozenhal 6 - Great reading of the game, but lost too many headers. Needs to be pushed into the midfield.

Zoggy 5 - Wasted a lot of good situations through poor delivery, especially from free kicks.

Smith 6 - Generally quiet, but what very few moments of class from the midfield, came from him.

Butt 5 - Not a player you want in there when you're chasing a game.

Geremi 5 - Looked very ponderous.

Milner 6 - Kept trying, and produced a few good crosses.

Ameobi 6 - Won a few good headers in the first half, but faded badly. There's always been a problem with his stamina. We had no target man to replace him with though.

Owen 7 - Looked our best player. Quite inventive.

[Ridman]

 

 

1) without wanting to sound overly harsh, Ameobi should be donated to science

 

2) Smith is lost and ineffective in midfield, and having him run around doing an "American Psycho" impersonation is unlikely to open up opposition defences

 

 

 

mackems.gif

[Dave]

That performance worries me. The result is poor, but the performance was probably as bad as anything we produced last season and that's some statement. Owen only got 14 touches of the ball against Derby.

 

There is very little flair in this Newcastle team, and while I doubt we'll produce a worse performance than that again this season, a lot of what we saw today was in evidence against Villa and Boro. A lack of flair and pace means we're trying to blag results, pumping it long, fighting for second balls and trying to nick something from a set piece, and that'll only get you so far. I won't single out any individuals for criticism because we performed poorly as a team.

 

Derby were very lucky to finish the game with 11 players on the pitch and some of the refereeing and linesmanship was incredible. Rozehnal was rugby tackled in front of the referee, the ball even bounced off him as it happened yet the ref seemed to pretend he hadn't seen it. It happened again, and then again and again. Michael Owen was also offside while two yards inside his own half, apparently. We were hard done by to say the least, but we don't deserve any sympathy, not after that performance.

 

Both the manager and his players have been talking themselves up over the last couple of weeks, ever since Owen's 87th minute winner against Wigan. Too much of the talking has been done in the media and not enough on the pitch, and they've all been taken down a peg or two. So have we as fans. The club has made strides forwards, but time will tell whether we've moved the first team significantly forwards or simply built up an abundance of mediocrity. Allardyce has a job on his hands, and for all the experience, height and strength he's brought in, we're lacking the flair and pace to put teams like Derby away.

 

Tactically we are looking increasingly like Bolton and I don't like the sound of that. When Allardyce joined I had mixed feelings. He's proven himself as a very good manager at what he does and that style of football is suited to underdogs, but the million dollar question was whether or not, given greater financial backing, he could move away from his underdog tactics and build a team to play top quality football. The jury is still very much out on that one. The summer signings point to progress, but are we simply progressing into a rich man's Bolton?

 

We'll have to pick ourselves up soon because there are tough games around the corner. The chairman, manager and players may have changed, but this was the same old Newcastle. Old habits die hard. This may be true of Newcastle, but I fear it could also be true of Allardyce.

 

Good post, that.

[Nobody]

What is Shola's excuse for being shite now? He can't use the Shearer-excuse, nor can he blame the injury... So what is it??

[Thespence]

Harper 7 - Did all that could be asked of him.

 

Have you seen the goal?

[JH]

Harper 7 - Did all that could be asked of him.

 

Have you seen the goal?

 

Oh yeah, I forgot about his Inspector Gadget extendable arms. There is nothing Harper could have done about that goal, so stop trying to find something to pin on him.

 

If anyone's to blame, it's the defence for that goal.

[Guest Chris P]

That performance worries me. The result is poor, but the performance was probably as bad as anything we produced last season and that's some statement. Owen only got 14 touches of the ball against Derby.

 

There is very little flair in this Newcastle team, and while I doubt we'll produce a worse performance than that again this season, a lot of what we saw today was in evidence against Villa and Boro. A lack of flair and pace means we're trying to blag results, pumping it long, fighting for second balls and trying to nick something from a set piece, and that'll only get you so far. I won't single out any individuals for criticism because we performed poorly as a team.

 

Derby were very lucky to finish the game with 11 players on the pitch and some of the refereeing and linesmanship was incredible. Rozehnal was rugby tackled in front of the referee, the ball even bounced off him as it happened yet the ref seemed to pretend he hadn't seen it. It happened again, and then again and again. Michael Owen was also offside while two yards inside his own half, apparently. We were hard done by to say the least, but we don't deserve any sympathy, not after that performance.

 

Both the manager and his players have been talking themselves up over the last couple of weeks, ever since Owen's 87th minute winner against Wigan. Too much of the talking has been done in the media and not enough on the pitch, and they've all been taken down a peg or two. So have we as fans. The club has made strides forwards, but time will tell whether we've moved the first team significantly forwards or simply built up an abundance of mediocrity. Allardyce has a job on his hands, and for all the experience, height and strength he's brought in, we're lacking the flair and pace to put teams like Derby away.

 

Tactically we are looking increasingly like Bolton and I don't like the sound of that. When Allardyce joined I had mixed feelings. He's proven himself as a very good manager at what he does and that style of football is suited to underdogs, but the million dollar question was whether or not, given greater financial backing, he could move away from his underdog tactics and build a team to play top quality football. The jury is still very much out on that one. The summer signings point to progress, but are we simply progressing into a rich man's Bolton?

 

We'll have to pick ourselves up soon because there are tough games around the corner. The chairman, manager and players may have changed, but this was the same old Newcastle. Old habits die hard. This may be true of Newcastle, but I fear it could also be true of Allardyce.

 

Good post, that.

 

well done for staying soberrrrrrrriiiiiiiiisssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhh.- sorry

[Guest bluegeordie]

What is Shola's excuse for being shite now? He can't use the Shearer-excuse, nor can he blame the injury... So what is it??

Maybe he needs a third hip?

[JH]

What is Shola's excuse for being s**** now? He can't use the Shearer-excuse, nor can he blame the injury... So what is it??

Maybe he needs a third hip?

 

You could give him a third leg and he'd still manage to fucking fall over at some point.

[Dave]

What is Shola's excuse for being s**** now? He can't use the Shearer-excuse, nor can he blame the injury... So what is it??

Maybe he needs a third hip?

 

You could give him a third leg and he'd still manage to fucking fall over at some point.

 

OOOOH-ERRRR!

 

On the brain tbh. Mrs Jonny Hall won't be able to sit down tomorrow.

[johnnypd]

some points:

 

i've changed my mind about smith, i used to think he was an average player and shit signing, now i think he's a shit player and an abysmal signing, about the level of a luque or marcelino so far. as a midfielder he's a poor man's scott parker so should never play anywhere else but upfront. taylor did 10 times more going forward and that is saying something considering he is a centre-half.

 

people criticising Ameobi are maybe missing the point, the blame should go to Allardyce for his simplistic and ignorant "big man, small man" tactics. ameobi might be tall and strong but he is no target man, in fact, he's pretty woeful in this position. essentially, he is the same type of player as Owen, a good striker in the penalty area, can pop up with a few goals, crap general play and the further away from the box he is, the worse he becomes. yet Allardyce has been fooled by his physique and thought he could play as a support striker, he can't. perhaps if Allardyce had EVER seen Ameobi play as support striker, say alongside shearer or martins, he'd see that he looks awful. hopefully Allardyce has learned his lesson but i doubt it.

 

Zoggy and Milner tried the hardest to create for us but both had poor games. Zoggy's final ball was terrible but he's coming from left-back so is often forced into a rash, early ball by the mass ranks in front of him. he should've been pushed up fairly early on, sticking milner on the right, but it never really happened.

 

lack of pace is endemic in this side, milner and smith down the wings? jesus wept! as Baggio pointed out earlier, Owen thrives on pace, whether it comes from an attacking midfielder, a winger or a support striker, stretching teams, causing disorganisation and opening space. there was none of that tonight. anyone who has seen Derby play can see they are uncomfortable with pace yet Martins is left on the bench. Derby are vulnerable to quick attacks, either a forward pass played down the middle or a surging run, Jenas for spurs earlier in the season for instance. there was none of this from us, the central midfielders never pressed on and rarely if ever offered forward passes. of course owen and ameobi didn't offer much movement or peeling away from their markers. If Viduka is out for the next match then Martins should perhaps start with Owen, at least he can work the channels (as he is increasingly doing under allardyce) and pull sides apart with pace.

 

as well as drive from midfield, we're also lacking vision and class on the ball. others have echoed how awful Butt was, not just in a defensive sense but his attempts at canny chips and through balls were embarrasing. the corner flag doesn't play for newcastle nicky! Geremi can move the ball about well but should never be relied upon to be our main creator of chances, he's a watercarrier, no more.

 

Rozehnal struggled really, really badly tonight. perhaps some might be suprised but ive noticed little weaknesses in his game in the previous matches so tonight, against a pumped up, dirty, physical side, is no shock.

 

also, people are saying that it is only a few games into Allardyce's reign and that it is obvious that not all problems will be solved and that we're in transition. true, but many of tonights problems have been caused by Allardyce's influence, for instance the two defensive midfielders, or smith down the right, would dyer or solano put in such a poor performance there? this game puts the other results into context, we've only played convincingly against bolton, cloggers who on early form are one of the most hopeless and uninspired sides in the league.

 

Excellent post. Summed up the main failings to a tee.

 

Also def deep teams like Derby don't mind the ball going wide as it gives them another tempo beat to organise the defence...I think you mentioned somewhere that pace through the middle is the biggest threat as they don't have time to organise and lose positional awareness in the melee.

 

Why in the name of god isn't Zoggy playing further up the park, any no of clowns can fill in at LB against a side like Derby.

 

aye, was thinking of that during the match that teams like derby are better equipped to deal with the ball going wide, they play against old skool "cross it/hoof it to the big man" football all the time, but struggle against something different. this is even more true when milner and smith aren't exactly getting to the byline or dribbling with pace to open up the opposition, we were crossing from deep, and mainly from only one side, which is playing into the hands of trash like leacock and davis.

[Guest Chris P]

What is Shola's excuse for being s**** now? He can't use the Shearer-excuse, nor can he blame the injury... So what is it??

Maybe he needs a third hip?

 

You could give him a third leg and he'd still manage to f****** fall over at some point.

mackems.gif

[Thespence]

There is nothing Harper could have done about that goal, so stop trying to find something to pin on him.

 

If there is nothing Harper could of done for a shot from way out I think it is time to recall Shay,

[Guest bluegeordie]

What is Shola's excuse for being s**** now? He can't use the Shearer-excuse, nor can he blame the injury... So what is it??

Maybe he needs a third hip?

You could give him a third leg and he'd still manage to fucking fall over at some point.

 

Perhaps, but just imagine the step-overs in between the falls :parky: