Kevin Keegan

[huss9]

leave KK alone man.

its an opinion.

no one got hurt.

[Kid Icarus]

4 minutes ago, RUHRLYASLEEVESUP said:

Who gives a fuck man

 All of the people posting about it, including you, obviously. Could say that about anything on here as well.

[Kid Icarus]

7 minutes ago, Wullie said:

 

Fair enough. I'll leave it up to everyone else to make their mind up who actually believes that.

 

Is this the same Wullie from Chat? 

[Dr Venkman]

@Wullie Is this supposed to be some sort of gotcha? The premise being that I can’t call out misogyny because I obviously have a preference for men playing sport based on sex alone and therefore people who have explicitly stated they are prejudiced based on sex can’t be misogynist? Is that what’s happening? And if I don’t agree with you that I have a preference based on sex alone then you just don’t believe me and no-one else should? 

[RUHRLYASLEEVESUP]

Just now, Kid Icarus said:

 All of the people posting about it, including you, obviously. Could say that about anything on here as well.

Nah I don't, honestly I don't

[Thomson Mouse]

3 minutes ago, Dr Venkman said:

@Wullie Is this supposed to be some sort of gotcha? The premise being that I can’t call out misogyny because I obviously have a preference for men playing sport based on sex alone and therefore people who have explicitly stated they are prejudiced based on sex can’t be misogynist? Is that what’s happening? And if I don’t agree with you that I have a preference based on sex alone then you just don’t believe me and no-one else should? 

 

Yeah it’s very straw man.

 

The only defence for this is Keegan is ‘old school’, thats it. 

[Dr Venkman]

1 minute ago, Thomson Mouse said:

 

Yeah it’s very straw man.

 

The only defence for this is Keegan is ‘old school’, thats it. 

Not bothered about Keegan TBH, he’s a lost cause.

[GideonShandy]

6 hours ago, Dr Jinx said:

I also think for the most part, that women are not funny / lack a sense of humour / make absolutely shit stand up comedians. Prove me wrong.

 

[Kid Icarus]

19 minutes ago, RUHRLYASLEEVESUP said:

Nah I don't, honestly I don't

Cool, bye then

[Thomson Mouse]

11 minutes ago, Dr Venkman said:

Not bothered about Keegan TBH, he’s a lost cause.

 

He is what he is, I don’t agree with it at all

[Wullie]

23 minutes ago, Dr Venkman said:

@Wullie Is this supposed to be some sort of gotcha? The premise being that I can’t call out misogyny because I obviously have a preference for men playing sport based on sex alone and therefore people who have explicitly stated they are prejudiced based on sex can’t be misogynist? Is that what’s happening? And if I don’t agree with you that I have a preference based on sex alone then you just don’t believe me and no-one else should? 

 

Sorry not sure what you mean here exactly, probably my fault.

 

My point was that you took issue with @St. Maximin for saying that there was "nothing misogynistic about preferring male commentators to female ones" but I think you (and I, and everyone else on this forum) have a preference for watching male footballers over female ones. Why is it misogynist to prefer watching/hearing a male commentator but not a male footballer? My disbelief was your claim that you don't prefer watching men playing football. 

[RUHRLYASLEEVESUP]

8 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

Cool, bye then

Zzzzzzzzzz

[Whitley mag]

King Kev could commit murder and he’d still be the King.

[huss9]

Just now, Whitley mag said:

King Kev could commit murder and he’d still be the King.

or a crown prince at the very least 

[Dr Venkman]

17 minutes ago, Wullie said:

 

Sorry not sure what you mean here exactly, probably my fault.

 

My point was that you took issue with @St. Maximin for saying that there was "nothing misogynistic about preferring male commentators to female ones" but I think you (and I, and everyone else on this forum) have a preference for watching male footballers over female ones. Why is it misogynist to prefer watching/hearing a male commentator but not a male footballer? My disbelief was your claim that you don't prefer watching men playing football. 

It wasn’t him, it was @Orphanage. We’ve already had the discussion about what misogyny is/isn’t, some tried to change the definition because they don’t like it, can’t think why. It’s just boring for everyone now.

Assuming a sex-based preference for anything, to everyone on this forum, is just bizarre. All I can tell you is that I don’t have a preference for anything which is based purely on sex. Not that I’m aware of, anyway. If I became aware of it I’d try to address it, maybe discuss it with people I trust, maybe have some therapy if I could afford it. Alternatives to that approach would be either owning it/coming to terms with it, or contacting the Oxford Dictionary to lobby them to change the definition of misogyny.

 

 

 

Edited October 6, 2023 by Dr Venkman

[loki679]

Wullie has a point though.  Women's football isn't a great standard which is an excuse given often for why people don't watch it.  Those same people will happily watch a bunch of League Two cloggers kick the crap out of each other for 90 minutes though.

[gbandit]

I’m with you on this entirely Venkman. I think the point Wullie is making though, although a little snidely in that post about “leaving it up to others to decide” is that in practice you consume a lot of football and that the vast majority of it will be men’s. You are a massive NUFC fan but that’s because of supporting the men’s team rather than being a big follower of the women’s team I imagine. So in practice, there is a preference based on your environmental experience, you’d likely choose to watch the men rather women play if they were both on at the same time. However, what you’re arguing is that having a more intrinsic feeling of “i could never enjoy women’s football or there’s no way I could enjoy it as much as men’s” is misogyny which I agree with because it’s all socially constructed

[Kid Icarus]

There's been a huge leap from one person saying

 

"we don't need women pundits and commentators in the men's game, it's a solution to a problem that doesn't exist"

 

to the next person saying "nothing wrong with a preference over women commentators if it's based on their commentating" 

 

to the next person saying "do you have a preference for men's football?"

 

From "women shouldn't speak" to "men's football is at a higher level to women's and it's okay to have a preference" as if the problem was with the last point not the first.

[Thomson Mouse]

28 minutes ago, Wullie said:

 

Sorry not sure what you mean here exactly, probably my fault.

 

My point was that you took issue with @St. Maximin for saying that there was "nothing misogynistic about preferring male commentators to female ones" but I think you (and I, and everyone else on this forum) have a preference for watching male footballers over female ones. Why is it misogynist to prefer watching/hearing a male commentator but not a male footballer? My disbelief was your claim that you don't prefer watching men playing football. 

 

Hugely straw man and very presumptuous. Again.

[Wullie]

1 minute ago, gbandit said:

I’m with you on this entirely Venkman. I think the point Wullie is making though, although a little snidely in that post about “leaving it up to others to decide” is that in practice you consume a lot of football and that the vast majority of it will be men’s. You are a massive NUFC fan but that’s because of supporting the men’s team rather than being a big follower of the women’s team I imagine. So in practice, there is a preference based on your environmental experience, you’d likely choose to watch the men rather women play if they were both on at the same time. However, what you’re arguing is that having a more intrinsic feeling of “i could never enjoy women’s football or there’s no way I could enjoy it as much as men’s” is misogyny which I agree with because it’s all socially constructed

 

Since you've accused me of being "snide", do you prefer watching men's or women's football? Venkman claims he has no preference whatsoever, would need therapy if he did, and that my assuming that people on this Newcastle United forum have a preference for one over the other is "bizarre".

 

I certainly think this thread has gone bizarre.

[oldtype]

For what it’s worth, if it’s true that there are less good female commentators than male ones, that’s probably because they’ve been systematically excluded from the profession for nearly a century and haven’t had the chance to develop.

 

If you want to fix that in the long run you do have to start force-feeding women opportunities in the short term, to some extent. It may seem like tokenism at times but there’s not another way around it.

[Hanshithispantz]

Wht would you need therapy for prefering mens football to womens? 

 

[Wullie]

5 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

There's been a huge leap from one person saying

 

"we don't need women pundits and commentators in the men's game, it's a solution to a problem that doesn't exist"

 

to the next person saying "nothing wrong with a preference over women commentators if it's based on their commentating" 

 

to the next person saying "do you have a preference for men's football?"

 

From "women shouldn't speak" to "men's football is at a higher level to women's and it's okay to have a preference" as if the problem was with the last point not the first.

 

I certainly agree with this FWIW, and I don't agree with the initial point in bold, for clarity. Nobody's mentioned Kelly Cates who I think has been the best football anchor on British television for years.

[Wullie]

3 minutes ago, Thomson Mouse said:

 

That is bizarre.

 

Why does it matter if he prefers men’s or women’s football?

 

It’s about the credibility of one commenting on the other. That’s all.

 

Commentating, not commenting. Big difference which maybe I didn't make clear enough. My point was specifically about the main commentary gig where I think tone of voice plays a part and many people are more likely to have a preference for one sex over the other.

[gbandit]

6 minutes ago, Wullie said:

 

Since you've accused me of being "snide", do you prefer watching men's or women's football? Venkman claims he has no preference whatsoever, would need therapy if he did, and that my assuming that people on this Newcastle United forum have a preference for one over the other is "bizarre".

 

I certainly think this thread has gone bizarre.

I thought it was snide to say “I’ll leave it up to other people to decide…” when you clearly were inferring that you didn’t believe him yourself. You could have said “I find that hard to believe in all honesty, I’m not sure if that’s just me…” 

 

Venkman was making the point that he doesn’t have a preference in principle about men’s or women’s football.

 

Personally, I have a massive learnt preference for men’s football based on a lifetime of supporting the men’s NUFC team so all my footballing references are from the men’s game. In principle I could enjoy the women’s game just as much as the men’s but it’s unlikely I ever will in practice because of how much time I’ve invested in the men’s game amongst other things