Dave Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 Right now, hes the best player in the world domestically in terms of end product, but that doesnt mean hes the best player in the world. What's do you base your judgement around then? I never said that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thespence Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 What are these so called big games that the top players have to prove themselves in? Does anyone keep at track of who has played well in them? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Snrub Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 2-0 Barcelona after 20 minutes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElDiablo Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 Right now, hes the best player in the world domestically in terms of end product, but that doesnt mean hes the best player in the world. What's do you base your judgement around then? I never said that. Don't get larey. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M4 Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 2-0 Barcelona after 20 minutes. Bojan getting a few goals here and there! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thespence Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 2-0 Barcelona after 20 minutes. Bojan getting a few goals here and there! Has he scored both? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kingdawson Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 Messi will undoubtdly be labelled a 'great' in time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Swift Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 What are these so called big games that the top players have to prove themselves in? Does anyone keep at track of who has played well in them? I think it's more about a sense/feeling about who you expect to deliver. You expect (that cunt) Gerrard to deliver when it matters. The key is to consistently deliver in these big moments because those are the only moments that will matter 20 years from now. That's why even though players like van Basten had a short-ish career, they'll always be remembered for their 'moments'. What's Ronaldo's 'moment' so far? What's any top footballer's 'moment' so far? I'd say that even Ronaldinho hasn't had his and will not go down as one of the greats. Great players have moments/tournaments which are forever associated with them. Eusebio had his 4 goals against North Korea as his moment, van Basten the wonder goal, Baggio with his incredible play in the '94 WC, Zizou the double in the WC final and the goal against Leverkusen - obviously I could go on but that's the gist of my argument. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 I wish Gerrard delivered for England. Are those big games? One thing that I'll always remember about Ronaldinho is that goal against Chelsea. Just summed him up, class. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmonkey Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 I don't see enough of Messi or Kaka, but they don't seem to be as dominant in their leagues as Ronaldo is in the Premiership. 35 goals for a midfielder is just incredible. And the Premiership is generally faster and more physical. Too soon to say "best ever" but best I've seen in the Premiership. Milan are struggling and are going through a rebuilding phase that all the great clubs go through, and right now, Kaka is their only real creative source. Its not possible for him to compete with Ronaldo in terms of stats, its a totally different kettle of fish. If he's marked out of the game, then Milan struggle, whereas Ronaldo can do nothing all game and it wont really matter, because theres Tevez or Rooney or Giggs or Nani or Scholes able to pull the strings and create something. Which is why Ronaldo has mainly been doing the finishing this season whilst others have been creating chances and shooting opportunities for him (today's game has been the opposite of what hes normally been doing). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kingdawson Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 I'm not getting into whether or not Ronaldo is the best footballer someone has seen, but why is there an almost complete reluctance to credit modern-day players with being the best, or 'a great'? It's always puzzled me. Is the game easier these days? Zidane and Ronaldo (Barca/Inter) are modern-day players and are considered great, as well as others like Figo (who was a better player than ManU's Ronaldo imo). For many of us, great domestic form is not equal to a great player. Ronaldo needs to vastly improve his general play, effectiveness, and consistency, in the bigger games, to be considered a great player like some of those mentioned above. Right now, hes the best player in the world domestically in terms of end product, but that doesnt mean hes the best player in the world. Figo in his prime was never as good as Ronaldo is now tbh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colos Short and Curlies Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 What are these so called big games that the top players have to prove themselves in? Does anyone keep at track of who has played well in them? I think it's more about a sense/feeling about who you expect to deliver. You expect (that cunt) Gerrard to deliver when it matters. The key is to consistently deliver in these big moments because those are the only moments that will matter 20 years from now. That's why even though players like van Basten had a short-ish career, they'll always be remembered for their 'moments'. What's Ronaldo's 'moment' so far? What's any top footballer's 'moment' so far? I'd say that even Ronaldinho hasn't had his and will not go down as one of the greats. Great players have moments/tournaments which are forever associated with them. Eusebio had his 4 goals against North Korea as his moment, van Basten the wonder goal, Baggio with his incredible play in the '94 WC, Zizou the double in the WC final and the goal against Leverkusen - obviously I could go on but that's the gist of my argument. Only if its in a Liverpool Shirt and he can cheat. Gerrard is no where near being a great if Ronaldo the second isn't Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 I'm not getting into whether or not Ronaldo is the best footballer someone has seen, but why is there an almost complete reluctance to credit modern-day players with being the best, or 'a great'? It's always puzzled me. Is the game easier these days? Zidane and Ronaldo (Barca/Inter) are modern-day players and are considered great, as well as others like Figo (who was a better player than ManU's Ronaldo imo). For many of us, great domestic form is not equal to a great player. Ronaldo needs to vastly improve his general play, effectiveness, and consistency, in the bigger games, to be considered a great player like some of those mentioned above. Right now, hes the best player in the world domestically in terms of end product, but that doesnt mean hes the best player in the world. Figo in his prime was never as good as Ronaldo is now tbh. He was. He had much more of an influence on general play, despite not scoring as many goals. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Snrub Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 2-0 Barcelona after 20 minutes. Bojan getting a few goals here and there! Has he scored both? No Eto'o has 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 Fuck football. What a fucking disappointment. Thrown this shit away too many times, no we're consigned to our fate in the play-offs, getting embarassed home and away. What a shit season. We've lost everything we had the first time we got up. Back then we were big powerful skilful and hungry. No we're just big and powerful. Fucking average. Fuck it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stozo Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 Fuck football. What a fucking disappointment. Thrown this shit away too many times, no we're consigned to our fate in the play-offs, getting embarassed home and away. What a shit season. We've lost everything we had the first time we got up. Back then we were big powerful skilful and hungry. No we're just big and powerful. Fucking average. Fuck it. You made a big mistake selling Marlon King IMO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Swift Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 What are these so called big games that the top players have to prove themselves in? Does anyone keep at track of who has played well in them? I think it's more about a sense/feeling about who you expect to deliver. You expect (that cunt) Gerrard to deliver when it matters. The key is to consistently deliver in these big moments because those are the only moments that will matter 20 years from now. That's why even though players like van Basten had a short-ish career, they'll always be remembered for their 'moments'. What's Ronaldo's 'moment' so far? What's any top footballer's 'moment' so far? I'd say that even Ronaldinho hasn't had his and will not go down as one of the greats. Great players have moments/tournaments which are forever associated with them. Eusebio had his 4 goals against North Korea as his moment, van Basten the wonder goal, Baggio with his incredible play in the '94 WC, Zizou the double in the WC final and the goal against Leverkusen - obviously I could go on but that's the gist of my argument. Only if its in a Liverpool Shirt and he can cheat. Gerrard is no where near being a great if Ronaldo the second isn't I never said he was a great. His resume still lacks quite a lot but I mentioned him because he has delivered when it mattered most. That's obviously a factor in whether a player ends up being considered a great, don't you think? That, combined with general awesomeness in domestic and international football, would boost the credentials of any wannabe 'great' player. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 Fuck football. What a fucking disappointment. Thrown this shit away too many times, no we're consigned to our fate in the play-offs, getting embarassed home and away. What a shit season. We've lost everything we had the first time we got up. Back then we were big powerful skilful and hungry. No we're just big and powerful. Fucking average. Fuck it. You made a big mistake selling Marlon King IMO. We have no quality up front or on the wings. McAnuff is fast, can't cross, can't shoot. Wow. Smith is skilful but can't cross and finishes when you least expect him to, but misses when it's easy. Priskin is shit. Ellington is shit. Kabba is shit. Henderson is amazing but shit. I absolutely despise football atm. We need the likes of Young and King, quality players to mix in with the solid backbone we have. FFS. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnypd Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 Best player I've seen anywhere in the world in my lifetime. F*cking phenomenal footballer. Gerraway. What does he have to do man? Do you think he's the greatest player you've seen in your lifetime? This isn't taking anything away from him as I think he's class, but I seriously don't know how people can say he's the best in their lifetime. Unless they're 8 years old or something. Which Nut isn't btw. Nowhere near as good as some of the recent greats. I remember Zidane running rings around Keane and co in the Champs League, they couldnt get close to him all night, that sort of skill and abilty in every touch is on another planet. Ronaldo here on the other hand, is playing for the domestic champions in the Premiership against a mid table side with average to above average players, and even then hes lost the ball on numerous occassions with poor attempts to beat a man. Good end product and a cheeky goal that should have been easily saved to be fair, but lets not get carried away - hes a very good player, in extremely good form domestically in terms of end product, and is benefitting greatly from being in a team that is firing on all cylinders with numerous players capable of pulling the strings and carrying him when hes playing poorly. That is about the strength of it. I think he'd struggle relatively speaking in Serie A, whereas if you put Kaka or Messi in the Man U side they would deliver comparably to Ronaldo. well Kaka struggled in Serie A last year and is invisible whenever a good side puts in a defensive midfielder to track him, or his babysitters pirlo and gattuso aren't there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 What are these so called big games that the top players have to prove themselves in? Does anyone keep at track of who has played well in them? I think it's more about a sense/feeling about who you expect to deliver. You expect (that cunt) Gerrard to deliver when it matters. The key is to consistently deliver in these big moments because those are the only moments that will matter 20 years from now. That's why even though players like van Basten had a short-ish career, they'll always be remembered for their 'moments'. What's Ronaldo's 'moment' so far? What's any top footballer's 'moment' so far? I'd say that even Ronaldinho hasn't had his and will not go down as one of the greats. Great players have moments/tournaments which are forever associated with them. Eusebio had his 4 goals against North Korea as his moment, van Basten the wonder goal, Baggio with his incredible play in the '94 WC, Zizou the double in the WC final and the goal against Leverkusen - obviously I could go on but that's the gist of my argument. Only if its in a Liverpool Shirt and he can cheat. Gerrard is no where near being a great if Ronaldo the second isn't I never said he was a great. His resume still lacks quite a lot but I mentioned him because he has delivered when it mattered most. That's obviously a factor in whether a player ends up being considered a great, don't you think? That, combined with general awesomeness in domestic and international football, would boost the credentials of any wannabe 'great' player. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElDiablo Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 Fuck football. What a fucking disappointment. Thrown this shit away too many times, no we're consigned to our fate in the play-offs, getting embarassed home and away. What a shit season. We've lost everything we had the first time we got up. Back then we were big powerful skilful and hungry. No we're just big and powerful. Fucking average. Fuck it. You made a big mistake selling Marlon King IMO. We have no quality up front or on the wings. McAnuff is fast, can't cross, can't shoot. Wow. Smith is skilful but can't cross and finishes when you least expect him to, but misses when it's easy. Priskin is shit. Ellington is shit. Kabba is shit. Henderson is amazing but shit. I absolutely despise football atm. We need the likes of Young and King, quality players to mix in with the solid backbone we have. FFS. I watched Priskin against Pompey last season (live) and he looked the part, was very impressed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 Ronaldo hasn't done it in Europe, Messi and Kaka have been matchwinners in big European games. There is another level and for me Ronaldo hasn't done it with any consistancy at the that level. Players like him and Gerrard continually look average in the very big matches more often than not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 Class on FM as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Swift Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 What are these so called big games that the top players have to prove themselves in? Does anyone keep at track of who has played well in them? I think it's more about a sense/feeling about who you expect to deliver. You expect (that cunt) Gerrard to deliver when it matters. The key is to consistently deliver in these big moments because those are the only moments that will matter 20 years from now. That's why even though players like van Basten had a short-ish career, they'll always be remembered for their 'moments'. What's Ronaldo's 'moment' so far? What's any top footballer's 'moment' so far? I'd say that even Ronaldinho hasn't had his and will not go down as one of the greats. Great players have moments/tournaments which are forever associated with them. Eusebio had his 4 goals against North Korea as his moment, van Basten the wonder goal, Baggio with his incredible play in the '94 WC, Zizou the double in the WC final and the goal against Leverkusen - obviously I could go on but that's the gist of my argument. Only if its in a Liverpool Shirt and he can cheat. Gerrard is no where near being a great if Ronaldo the second isn't I never said he was a great. His resume still lacks quite a lot but I mentioned him because he has delivered when it mattered most. That's obviously a factor in whether a player ends up being considered a great, don't you think? That, combined with general awesomeness in domestic and international football, would boost the credentials of any wannabe 'great' player. I should preface this by saying I don't think Gerrard is (or will end up being) considered a great. I'm just saying that he does tick one of the main boxes - delivering when it matters most; CL final, FA Cup final, rescuing his team against Olympiakos etc. That's all. He doesn't tick the two other main boxes - general awesomeness in domestic football, and general awesomeness in international football. I only mentioned him because there just aren't any players out there who consistently deliver when it matters most. Not one. Not Ronaldo, Kaka, Rooney, Henry nor Messi. At least not yet anyway, so I had to settle for Gerrard because he ticked that particular box and I was discussing that particular 'box'. That's it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 Apologies. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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