Amara Diane off to Qatar

[Colos Short and Curlies]

Bargain buys? Hardly, this isn't 500k for an Irish centre back. It's a decent signing that will provide other options. As for potential, if you don't think buying for the future is a good idea then I don't want to be a fan of your football club, look at Arsenal how many players do they take and develop at their academies, it's the future simple as, we can't go and buy World Cupwinners and what have you.

 

I'm wary of signing so many Africans for the sole reason we saw what happene to Pomepy this January.

 

I don't care about Arsenal.

 

Wenger is a one off.

 

Like I said, manu and chelsea don't do it, you show me Wenger, and I will show you Ferguson and Mourhinho and tell you they buy the best players. Before them, Liverpool bought the best players. Clough broke transfer records. Revie broke transfer records. Keegan the first time bought the best players.

 

Its a signing that is hoped to be a "bargain" buy. Like it or not, this is the truth. Coming on the back of losing top targets to the likes of Spurs, if you think this sort of standard is good enough for NUFC, its your problem.

 

They won't succeed if they throw all their eggs into this ridiculous "bargain" idea. And they won't succeed if they operate tight financial restraints when trying to sign the best players. Money talks in any walk of life. I understand why people are rejecting this, but at the end of the day, they are paranoid, clueless and should apply common sense and look at these other clubs and accordingly observe how they get success.

 

Why don't you think we can't buy World Cup winners ? We have signed a few of those over the last 16 years or so, so why not now ?

 

 

 

 

Wengers a one off, explain Ajax, Psv, now Juventus, Milan, all teams that at one stage often their most productive used home grown lads. Wenger is not a one off, he's just smart, and adopting his techniques is very good. Look at Charlie 120k now worth £10m. The fact your willing to dismiss a team thats won more leagues and cups than us makes me question why were bothering this discussion. For as good as "Buying the best players" is we are not at their level yet, and constant spending is not a maintainable structure.  Stop thinking because Ashley is a billionaire he will throw money at the club.

 

I'm not saying throw it all in the bargain basket ,but don't be so naive as to dismiss the concept of buying young and cheap like Krul, Soderberg and Zamblera. The reason we can't attract WCW is because we haven't finished in the top half for 3seasons and aren't in Europe either.

 

I'm not thinking because Ashley is a billionaire he will throw money at the club. I'm pointing at how Liverpool, Chelsea and Manu have operated over many years, decades in the case of 2 of them.

 

I'm also pointing out how successful clubs in England have always operated.

 

Nobody is dismissing finding the odd top player on their way up in the game, I'm pointing out the simple FACT that the big boys buy the best players, not the pompeys etc.

 

Ignore this if you like. But you won't have consistent success in the game through over emphasis on "bargains". For further proof, we operated like this ourselves all the way through the 1970's and 80's - if you don't have first hand experience of this, or are too naive to even try to understand, you'll have to take my word for it.

 

Quite amazing that you pick out one or two clubs temporarily above their place to emphasise a point, and ignoring the rest.

 

For the young, and "bargain", players like the ones you mention, why not mention Chopra, Bramble, Jenas, Ambrose, Viana, Dyer, Griffin, Gavilan, Ameobi, Bernard, Hughes.........and going back further, Bogie, Dyson, Brayson, Wharton, Lormor, Conrwell, Stephenson, Tinnon.........there are plenty more.

 

So don't make out the club has never been down these particular roads either, because they have, and here are some of the names to show it.

 

Oh, and one more thing, pompey are 20m quid in the red. What shit directors eh  and that is before they start building a new stadium. Still, I'm sure you and others will call that "positive thinking".

 

What a joke.

 

 

 

 

You mean the Dyer, Bernard and Jenas who were instrumental in achieving Champions League football? (Along with notable contributions from Griffin, Hughes, Ameobi)

[Guest optimistic nit]

tbh it'd probably be better to mention bellamy, solano and given, three quality players who were bought for pittance. speed out of that team cost little too. then there was robert and shearer, both costing a lot of money, and woodgate played his part. if we want to succeed we need to spend on the roberts, shearers and woodgates, but it is our success in finding the bellamy's, solano's and given's that will put us back on the map, because that's where you need people with an eye for talent. anyone could have signed robert, he was quite well known, but finding players for less money and less reputation is where we need to succeed, and we are trying to do that, it is clear, but we can't forget we need the shearer's and robert's as well.

i don't see diane being another bellamy, that said i know newcastle fan's who were very dissapointed when we signed bellamy, only for him to prove them wrong, and maybe diane will prove me wrong, but i don't think so (obviously).

[Dave]

So NE5 are we not allowed to sign anyone under £x m?

 

Simple yes or no will do.

 

I wont hold my breath though. 

 

If they're not £20m each he doesn't want to know.

[Dave]

How much did Beye cost btw? Because last time I checked, he was one of our best players.

 

Still, he'd be loads better if we'd paid £10m for him I guess.

[johnnypd]

the top teams don't just spend on players at their peak, or just buy promising talents, or just buy teenagers for the academy, they do ALL these things. in fact plenty of top sides buy players way before theyve hit their peak, so as to get their best years out of them and train them in the ethos of the club.

 

Look at Milan going for Kaka and Pato as youngsters, alongside older names. look at barca buying in youngsters or trainig kids from the area with Messi, Dos Santos, Bojan, Fabregas, Pique, Xavi, Iniesta, Puyol and so on, alongside young talents like etoo, toure, ronaldinho and then some more established names already at their peak (ironically these are perhaps the least successful transfers - likes of henry, thuram, zambrotta). man utd bought ronaldo as a teenager for a 5th of the price he'd go for now, also bought rooney, nani, anderson young, have three teenaged brazilian lads coming this sumer, and almost all their big signings are those under 24 again yet to reach to their peak. they also go after young names and develop players through the academy, to great success as we found out a few years back. as do chelsea who atm have 19 youngsters brought in from outside in the reserves and academy and who employ a bunch of scouts like arnesen to find them.

 

us going out and buying a young player on the cheap who we can develop ourselves is a great thing and it has to be done. but only as long as it is accompanied with signings from the other categories - though i won't be fussed if we don't buy too many big name players aged 27/28 who are more likely to be on the way down. these days it is not only Wenger who is doing this, though he is perhaps the most lauded example. most clubs who want to achieve something are following similar strategies, Spurs are one example and since theyve changed their transfer policy they've gone from nothing to finishing 5th two years in a row, winning the league cup the next and beating us to transfers.

 

not saying Diane is one of these youngsters mind, seems to be more like someone to challenge Martins who is the first name on the team sheet in the present squad, as the only forward with pace.

[Guest optimistic nit]

beye succeded, but cacapa and rozy failed. as ne5 said, often only 1/10 of these players make it (personally imo it varies from manager to manager, as most of keegan's shrewd buy's worked out, as did a lot of SBR's) and if only 1/10 players make it (although Beye and Feye did, Smith, Viduka, Rozy, Cacapa, Barton and anybody else who was so shit i've forgotten didn't so the cost of that transfer policy should really be judged on the total cost of all these signings.

so last transfer window the success of feye and beye cost around 8million each, plus a big wage increase which smith and viduka are responsible for.

they saved what would otherwise have been an appauling transfer window.

[Dave]

Nobody is suggesting they are putting all their eggs into this one bargain basket but NE5. I didn't hear him posting delight at the ambition to sign Modric, but I did hear him moaning when he chose to join Spurs.

 

And now he's straight on complaining at first news of us supposedly bidding for a player, just because it's a potentially low fee. Funny that.

 

I wonder how much he knows about the player? I'm guessing fuck all.

[Guest teepee]

good point O.K: - the best signings of last season are probably faye and beye, those with the lowest profile. but there were too many misses as well

 

but bringing in a promising forward for less than 3m seems a good idea to me, we've got to trust kev.

 

and remember, it doesnt rule out the option of bringing in a couple of high profile players as well.

[Guest optimistic nit]

i don't think we've had any amunition to defend the club in any way since we hired graeme souness, the only thing i find promicing about the current regime is that yes, they wiped all the debt and i do like the scouting network we're trying to set up (also the better contact with the fanbase, e.g. morts end of season report).

NE5 spent about 3 years defending shepheard when he was doing his best to ruin the club, but i'm not going to write him off as being bitter and twisted about the new regime until we have something real and tangible to celerbrate and he's still moaning.

[Nobody]

Haven't followed this at all, could someone give me a quick recap? What type of player, how old he is, credibility of rumour etc?

[Guest optimistic nit]

http://www.newcastle-online.com/nufcforum/index.php?topic=52732.0

[mrmojorisin75]

the top teams don't just spend on players at their peak, or just buy promising talents, or just buy teenagers for the academy, they do ALL these things. in fact plenty of top sides buy players way before theyve hit their peak, so as to get their best years out of them and train them in the ethos of the club.

 

Look at Milan going for Kaka and Pato as youngsters, alongside older names. look at barca buying in youngsters or trainig kids from the area with Messi, Dos Santos, Bojan, Fabregas, Pique, Xavi, Iniesta, Puyol and so on, alongside young talents like etoo, toure, ronaldinho and then some more established names already at their peak (ironically these are perhaps the least successful transfers - likes of henry, thuram, zambrotta). man utd bought ronaldo as a teenager for a 5th of the price he'd go for now, also bought rooney, nani, anderson young, have three teenaged brazilian lads coming this sumer, and almost all their big signings are those under 24 again yet to reach to their peak. they also go after young names and develop players through the academy, to great success as we found out a few years back. as do chelsea who atm have 19 youngsters brought in from outside in the reserves and academy and who employ a bunch of scouts like arnesen to find them.

 

us going out and buying a young player on the cheap who we can develop ourselves is a great thing and it has to be done. but only as long as it is accompanied with signings from the other categories - though i won't be fussed if we don't buy too many big name players aged 27/28 who are more likely to be on the way down. these days it is not only Wenger who is doing this, though he is perhaps the most lauded example. most clubs who want to achieve something are following similar strategies, Spurs are one example and since theyve changed their transfer policy they've gone from nothing to finishing 5th two years in a row, winning the league cup the next and beating us to transfers.

 

not saying Diane is one of these youngsters mind, seems to be more like someone to challenge Martins who is the first name on the team sheet in the present squad, as the only forward with pace.

 

good post dude, agree with it all

 

also agree with NE5 again; if we only buy cheap & young we'll never get beyond a certain level - look at spurs when they started under enic, trawling around finding bargains like defoe, carrick and lennon, staltieri, taino etc... and so forth...they realised they'd never challenge anything doing that and are now still doing it whilst spending big at the same time on first team players

 

failure of shepherds tenure was the only spending big part, if ashleys regime don't do any spending big we'll be sitting here in a few years time condemning them for it guaranteed

[UV]

Replacing a 26 year old 4th choice striker integrated with the team and the league with a 25 year old 4th choice striker unfamiliar with the team and the league who might be a bit better, is not the road to success. It's hardly even strengthening your squad. It's a nothing move. Unless this guy suddenly turns out to be a revelation, and changes his game into something no other manager, coach or scout has seen, it's not going to improve the team one iota.

 

If the club is really looking to improve, we should be replacing our 4th choice striker with someone who would be 1st, 2nd or at the very least 3rd choice. It doesn't look like we're going to be replacing Owen, Martins or Viduka this Summer unless they themselves decide they want to leave, so this is the level of player we're looking at to "improve" our strikeforce for next season. With Owen & Viduka's fitness problems, there's every chance this bloke (or whoever we get) will get plenty of games, and personally I don't think it's good enough for a club with ambitions to get into Europe.

[Dave]

How are you judging his level, UV?

[Parky]

Replacing a 26 year old 4th choice striker integrated with the team and the league with a 25 year old 4th choice striker unfamiliar with the team and the league who might be a bit better, is not the road to success. It's hardly even strengthening your squad. It's a nothing move. Unless this guy suddenly turns out to be a revelation, and changes his game into something no other manager, coach or scout has seen, it's not going to improve the team one iota.

 

If the club is really looking to improve, we should be replacing our 4th choice striker with someone who would be 1st, 2nd or at the very least 3rd choice. It doesn't look like we're going to be replacing Owen, Martins or Viduka this Summer unless they themselves decide they want to leave, so this is the level of player we're looking at to "improve" our strikeforce for next season. With Owen & Viduka's fitness problems, there's every chance this bloke (or whoever we get) will get plenty of games, and personally I don't think it's good enough for a club with ambitions to get into Europe.

 

Haven't seen him play and know nothing about him, but a friend who 'follows' French footie says he's twice the player Shola is. Quite pacey and can play from deeper positions as well. FWIW.

 

Again, for the money I think it is a shrewd buy. Anyway fees have never been a guarantee of success at any club.

[SUPERTOON]

were was the offer rumoured?

[UV]

How are you judging his level, UV?

 

He's 25, so for a striker he's pretty much developed as much as he ever will. His game may adapt slightly but it's unlikely he'll "be the new Drogba". If no other big clubs seem interested and PSG are happy to let him go for half the fee we'd expect for Shola, then as I said unless our scouts have seen something in him which no other manager, coach or scout has seen, then it's unlikely he's going to be anything special or even much of an improvement on Shola (especially when you take into account the adaptation factor).

 

Also, Spurs aren't interested, so he must be shit.

[Dave]

You'd expect £6m for Shola?

 

I've seen nothing of the player, but it strikes me that some are assuming he's not good enough purely because of the rumoured fee. Which is bonkers.

 

I trust Keegan to go for players he thinks he can work with and improve. If that means a £3m player from France then so be it.

[Parky]

This is a classic, people are knocking a player they know nothing about, who hasn't even signed based solely on the price.

[UV]

You'd expect £6m for Shola?

 

I've seen nothing of the player, but it strikes me that some are assuming he's not good enough purely because of the rumoured fee. Which is bonkers.

 

I trust Keegan to go for players he thinks he can work with and improve. If that means a £3m player from France then so be it.

 

I'd expect us to be asking for £5m, maybe settle for 4.

 

I think the transfer fee a player can command is a pretty good gauge actually (the length remaining on their contract must be taken into account also obviously), and for a striker at peak age playing in a European league £2.75m, is very, very low.

 

Do we even know this is a Keegan target? Seems more likely to be a Wise/Vetere one.

[UV]

This is a classic, people are knocking a player they know nothing about, who hasn't even signed based solely on the price.

 

Not knocking the player, questioning the ambition of the club. Do you honestly think this is a player who will be challenging Owen or Martin's place in the 1st team?

[Guest Coubury]

5? 

 

He isn't worth 2 lol

[Rich]

This is a classic, people are knocking a player they know nothing about, who hasn't even signed based solely on the price.

 

Not knocking the player, questioning the ambition of the club. Do you honestly think this is a player who will be challenging Owen or Martin's place in the 1st team?

 

How can anyone answer that until we've seen him play?

[Parky]

This is a classic, people are knocking a player they know nothing about, who hasn't even signed based solely on the price.

 

Not knocking the player, questioning the ambition of the club. Do you honestly think this is a player who will be challenging Owen or Martin's place in the 1st team?

 

You're pre-empting the whole summer transfer merry go round. We really need to see where we are at the end of July/early August.

[McCormick]

seen the lad play, and he's completely average