Jonas Gutierrez signed from Mallorca on 5 year deal

[mrmojorisin75]

for all the hard work and dazling runs at the opposition, I am convinced Jonas is incapable when he is running with the ball of even ‘seeing a pass’, never mind actually making that pass.

 

Running into dead ends every time (unless he wins a free kick) seems to be his only end product.

 

 

 

There's barely ever a fucking pass on man. He picked out Owen no bother against Stoke...

 

tend to agree with that, hardly like he's got tevez, ronaldo & rooney marauding about making runs into space is it?  i think he could do better with his end product personally but he's suffering from what's around him to a degree

 

[oldtype]

he's hit some downright amazing through balls into the middle. Just seem to be his crossing once he's gotten deep that's lacking.

 

He's at best when he can run in from deep and divest himself of the ball with a smart through pass without having to get too close to the box himself.

 

The reason we see him so often running into blind alleys these days is that we don't have Oba or Owen running into space for him.

[mrmojorisin75]

he's hit some downright amazing through balls into the middle. Just seem to be his crossing once he's gotten deep that's lacking.

 

He's at best when he can run in from deep and divest himself of the ball with a smart through pass without having to get too close to the box himself.

 

The reason we see him so often running into blind alleys these days is that we don't have Oba or Owen running into space for him.

 

add to that the 'one man band' factor as well...literally no-one else is able to beat a man or provide some creativity so everyone looks to gutierrez, that'll take it's toll in the end on the guy especially when he's getting kicked to fuck by teams like the mackems who know if they fuck him up then there's nothing else to really worry about

 

by the way, fair play to the lad on sunday...foreign players get a bed reputation at times but he took a kicking and got back up for more every time, hope little mickey, viduka and duff were watching

[Thespence]

Jonas needs to stop playing so deep

 

The oppo need to stop attacking.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Lacks courage in the final 3rd, needs to start taking responsibility. Yeah the work rate is good but give me Robert's end product over Jonas' work ethic. Crossing is piss poor. He's an excellent footballer, works like a donkey, but we need far more in the final 3rd. Frustrating as hell.

 

I reckon that's exactly what we was doing, he was one of the few midfielders we had not hiding from the ball, and he took on the role of basically creating all of our attacking threat... as well as working his bollocks off to get back and defend.

 

He's basically doing the work of at least 2 players. Which is just as well as Duff does the work of 0.

[Flip]

Imagine Gutierrez in a team like Liverpool or Chelsea. He would be amazing, this guy is amazing for the Argentine nationalt eam, hes trying to much because our whole freaking squad is just s***. Wouldn't surprise me if he's out back to La Liga or some other top clubs in June. Bassong too.

[James]

I remember when he was playing for Keegan.

 

Attacking movement was exceptional throughout the team, which allowed Jonas to get involved in some really good passing moves, and he could run the full length of the pitch.

 

This doesn't happen anymore, because Kinnear spends four days out of five coacching defending.

 

Hence we are completely impotent.

 

Kinnear Out!

[Guest optimistic nit]

Imagine Gutierrez in a team like Liverpool or Chelsea. He would be amazing, this guy is amazing for the Argentine nationalt eam, hes trying to much because our whole freaking squad is just s***. Wouldn't surprise me if he's out back to La Liga or some other top clubs in June. Bassong too.

 

he's a PL player, he's said so himself. that said can see teams in europe going for him in the summer. not sure if they will get him, but i can see them trying.

 

I remember when he was playing for Keegan.

 

Attacking movement was exceptional throughout the team, which allowed Jonas to get involved in some really good passing moves, and he could run the full length of the pitch.

 

This doesn't happen anymore, because Kinnear spends four days out of five coacching defending.

 

Hence we are completely impotent.

 

Kinnear Out!

 

you know kinnear does that james? are you at the training ground 5 days a week?

 

we're completely impotent because we have martins and owen out injured. attacking movement wasn't bad vs the mackems, we just couldn't get shola or andy to move their lanky arses into any sort of space.

 

i'm not defending kinnear here btw, he's the worst manager i've ever seen both in a tactical sense and in a "what a cunt" sense.

[James]

Imagine Gutierrez in a team like Liverpool or Chelsea. He would be amazing, this guy is amazing for the Argentine nationalt eam, hes trying to much because our whole freaking squad is just s***. Wouldn't surprise me if he's out back to La Liga or some other top clubs in June. Bassong too.

 

he's a PL player, he's said so himself. that said can see teams in europe going for him in the summer. not sure if they will get him, but i can see them trying.

 

I remember when he was playing for Keegan.

 

Attacking movement was exceptional throughout the team, which allowed Jonas to get involved in some really good passing moves, and he could run the full length of the pitch.

 

This doesn't happen anymore, because Kinnear spends four days out of five coacching defending.

 

Hence we are completely impotent.

 

Kinnear Out!

 

you know kinnear does that james? are you at the training ground 5 days a week?

 

we're completely impotent because we have martins and owen out injured. attacking movement wasn't bad vs the mackems, we just couldn't get shola or andy to move their lanky arses into any sort of space.

 

i'm not defending kinnear here btw, he's the worst manager i've ever seen both in a tactical sense and in a "what a cunt" sense.

 

Kinnear has said that's what he does.

[johnnypd]

i don't think, with his gangly, lanky, awkward legs, that he can get the required power or accuracy behind his shots or crosses. i can only remember one or two powerful crosses he has hit, but i dont think i can recall a powerful drive from outside the area. you don't see Ameobi doing the same because he has a similar problem - though it enables him to have an awkward presence just as it enables Jonas to drive on through players as he dribbles. for a winger it is a pretty serious weakness.

[Kanj]

How he retains possession so often when being challenged is beyond me. I haven't seen someone so good at close control and then BAM hes off running past someone. Best example is that he will get a pass, and a defender will come from behind or on the side, he will control it, quick feet and hes pushed the ball forward and hes away from his man. I thinnk I've noticed he loves going to the byline and cutting  the ball back to pass across the face of the goal. Something which worked much better when Oba and Owen were up top.

[robbo_11]

I thought Jonas had a good game against Sunderland and has been quite impressive so far this season. He can tackle (to an extent), pass and run with the ball, but maybe does too much running and has little end product. He worked well with Enrique down the left hand side and was able to cover as Jose overlapped. I don't like the fact he exaggerates some contact and can go down rather easily, but the fact that teams look to take him out proves he is a threat. It's safe to say that we had the most joy with Gutierrez on the ball against Sunderland and if Owen had been on the pitch we might have had a different story. Most of the balls from Jonas were along the ground and to the front post, except the one cross where McCartney had to clear from under the bar, but no one gambled or rather Ameobi and Carroll looked for the header. Also if we had someone who was able to arrive late in the box from midfield we could have had a few opportunities to score.

[Skirge]

Keeps the ball like Tino used to like don't he, his work ethic is second to non, if the rest of them put that amount of effort in we will be fine. His final ball may lack but that can also be down to lack of options in the box, to many of our players are like statues.

Enrique could do more also, he backs Jonas up but only to a point, he will go wide and create space for Enrique by pulling the CB and FB away but Jose never uses the space to run into he just gives it back to Jonas expecting hmi to beat the two men. There was a spell vs the Scum on Sunday where they passed it back and forward toe ach other about 7 times until Duff went over to offer another option.

[Fatwax]

i don't think, with his gangly, lanky, awkward legs, that he can get the required power or accuracy behind his shots or crosses. i can only remember one or two powerful crosses he has hit, but i dont think i can recall a powerful drive from outside the area. you don't see Ameobi doing the same because he has a similar problem - though it enables him to have an awkward presence just as it enables Jonas to drive on through players as he dribbles. for a winger it is a pretty serious weakness.

 

Power in a shot comes from speed and accuracy in the movement of the leg when taking the shot. Jonas certainly has the first quality.

 

It's also Owen's major flaw. Since the knee injury he's lost speed in his leg when going for the shot, equalling in weak shots almost all of the time.

 

That's my understanding of shooting and power anyway as it was explained to me by coaches when I played more.

[Fatwax]

Oh and another thing about what Skirge said - the overall movement in our team is pathetic. It can't be that hard to move into space for your team mates. I coach primary school kids how to do this and they seem to be able to get the basic grasp of the principal.

 

[TRon]

Oh and another thing about what Skirge said - the overall movement in our team is pathetic. It can't be that hard to move into space for your team mates. I coach primary school kids how to do this and they seem to be able to get the basic grasp of the principal.

 

 

This is why the criticisms of Jonas lack of end product are pointless. We have people like Geremi who provide end product but seeing as they spend most of the game gathering rust it's useless. If it wasn't for the likes of Jonas we wouldn't get the ball out of our own half.

[Skirge]

Oba will attack a ball but he does not anticipate enough and or darting runs, Owen does but he aint a big target to aim for not when he has three or four opposing players around him, we should have at least  have three players bursting a gut to get into the box when Jonas is on a run down the flank, he usally manages some kind of ball into the box, take the gamble in numbers into the box is what we need to do.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

Power in a shot comes from speed and accuracy in the movement of the leg when taking the shot. Jonas certainly has the first quality.

 

It's also Owen's major flaw. Since the knee injury he's lost speed in his leg when going for the shot, equalling in weak shots almost all of the time.

 

That's my understanding of shooting and power anyway as it was explained to me by coaches when I played more.

 

Power (and shooting in general) is all about technique and not speed or strength, see goal-kicks for a prime example of using technique to strike the ball hard. It has nothing to do with strength or speed. Balance/body posture is also a major factor, although body posture comes under technique.

[Yorkie]

Oba will attack a ball but he does not anticipate and make darting runs, Owen does but he aint a big target to aim for, we should have at least three players bursting a gut to get into the box when Jonas is on a run down the flank, he usally manages some kind of ball into the box, take the gamble in numbers into the box is what we need to do.

 

I know you're just generalising, Skirge - but in many cases that's what we can do with out. If Jonas makes it to the byline he isn't going to deliver a beautiful swerving cross - he's going to dally, dink it past a player, and play a low ball in. That isn't a bad thing, not by any means. If we had a late arriver on the edge of the box (hopefully Nolan), or if a striker could come deep and receive a pass, we'd get a lot more joy. Like i've said before, we might pass it around occassionally but still even then it's very route one. "Must get to byline, must cross." It doesn't have to be like that.

 

You're right about our movement being shit.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Striking technique is absolutely key, you can generate a lot of power without as much effort if you can strike a ball cleanly.

[Guest sicko2ndbest]

Black people dont tend to have a problem shooting with power!!

 

Joke people, i'm joking

 

Power in a shot is a combination of strength, speed and technique.

 

Different examples

 

Beckham - Technique

Shearer - Strength

Henry - Speed

 

They obviously have a bit of all 3 but these are their main attributes

[Skirge]

Oba will attack a ball but he does not anticipate and make darting runs, Owen does but he aint a big target to aim for, we should have at least three players bursting a gut to get into the box when Jonas is on a run down the flank, he usally manages some kind of ball into the box, take the gamble in numbers into the box is what we need to do.

 

I know you're just generalising, Skirge - but in many cases that's what we can do with out. If Jonas makes it to the byline he isn't going to deliver a beautiful swerving cross - he's going to dally, dink it past a player, and play a low ball in. That isn't a bad thing, not by any means. If we had a late arriver on the edge of the box (hopefully Nolan), or if a striker could come deep and receive a pass, we'd get a lot more joy. Like i've said before, we might pass it around occassionally but still even then it's very route one. "Must get to byline, must cross." It doesn't have to be like that.

 

You're right about our movement being s***.

I know getting caught out by over comiting men forward is a worry but you have toi play the percentages and while Jonas is going on a run we have to back him up, loads of times he has to stop because there is only 1 of ours in the box and he is well marked, our two strikers should be getting in there looking at geting to one of the posts and a midfielder should be backing up on the edge of the box. You want your oposite side winger to be getting to the edge of the box on their side to back up incase the ball flies past everyone, but all we get is one or two makeing up the ground while the rest stand and watch.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

Black people dont tend to have a problem shooting with power!!

 

Joke people, i'm joking

 

Power in a shot is a combination of strength, speed and technique.

 

Different examples

 

Beckham - Technique

Shearer - Strength

Henry - Speed

 

They obviously have a bit of all 3 but these are their main attributes

 

All technique, nowt to do with strength or speed.

[Skirge]

TIMING HITTING THE BALL HARD IS DOWN TO TIMING!

 

 

[Guest sicko2ndbest]

Black people dont tend to have a problem shooting with power!!

 

Joke people, i'm joking

 

Power in a shot is a combination of strength, speed and technique.

 

Different examples

 

Beckham - Technique

Shearer - Strength

Henry - Speed

 

They obviously have a bit of all 3 but these are their main attributes

 

All technique, nowt to do with strength or speed.

 

Disagree. Technique is fine when you want to 'ping' a ball cross field, however to create shooting power you need a combination of the 3. Beckham dosnt have a wickedly powerful shot as Martins, Shearer or Robert had, because he does not have the leg speed or strength that they have.