Michael Owen in 2008-09

[Guest sittingontheball]

How much compo did we get after the England injury? If his wages were covered, that period doesn't amount to "our losses".

 

Owen did play a lot last season, but a lot of it was ineffective because of shite tactics from Fatty. Used properly he's still a great player as KK proved. I don't know why we would offload him after he finished last season so strongly.

 

Robbie Keane cost 20M people. He's no younger than Owen, scores less, and is arguably a bigger prima donna.  He runs around a lot more, but Liverpool already have a striker who runs around and doesn't score very many. He's called Dirk Kuyt.

[Ronaldo]

How much compo did we get after the England injury? If his wages were covered, that period doesn't amount to "our losses".

 

Owen did play a lot last season, but a lot of it was ineffective because of s**** tactics from Fatty. Used properly he's still a great player as KK proved. I don't know why we would offload him after he finished last season so strongly.

 

Robbie Keane cost 20M people. He's no younger than Owen, scores less, and is arguably a bigger prima donna.  He runs around a lot more, but Liverpool already have a striker who runs around and doesn't score very many. He's called Dirk Kuyt.

 

except Keane does score many and will comfortably outscore Owen this season

[mrmojorisin75]

How much compo did we get after the England injury? If his wages were covered, that period doesn't amount to "our losses".

 

Owen did play a lot last season, but a lot of it was ineffective because of shite tactics from Fatty. Used properly he's still a great player as KK proved. I don't know why we would offload him after he finished last season so strongly.

 

Robbie Keane cost 20M people. He's no younger than Owen, scores less, and is arguably a bigger prima donna.  He runs around a lot more, but Liverpool already have a striker who runs around and doesn't score very many. He's called Dirk Kuyt.

 

some merit in that post actually when you think about keane/kuyt (although he's a laughable figure to me, thank funk roeder never had to actually choose between him and obagoals), however both have shown in their careers they're very likely to play a hell of a lot more games than owen and presumably aren't getting paid anything like he does

 

i just don't see how owens going to get fitter as he gets older, i just don't, and with a squad as tight as ours looks likely to be you can't afford to not be able to rely on 2 of your only 3 strikers due to fitness problems

 

one of owen or viduka need "replacing" or "supplementing" right now imo as to cross our fingers they'll play a lot of games and assuming if they don't that oba can cover them on his own is wildly optimistic

 

if owen had 3 years on his contract no-one would be talking about it but he doesn't and he's already proven his willingness to use his contract status to his advantage in the past....

 

imo he's walking for nothing

[Ronaldo]

people underrate Keane, he scored 1 in 2 for Spurs and created god knows how many. Great player

[mrmojorisin75]

people underrate Keane, he scored 1 in 2 for Spurs and created god knows how many. Great player

 

i think the lad was on about the fact he cost 20m as much as anything, i.e. we've a player in owen already who scores more goals than keane when fit (pretty sure he does like) therefore why sell him

 

the answer being his contract situation and the fact he's made of crepe paper

[Raconteur]

I've followed this debate closely as I don't have a fixed opinion yet - I believe the club have offered a contract something similar to the one about to expire. No slashing cut, no bumper rise. But whether that is good, bad or indifferent, I'm unsure...

 

Further, I feel Owen is taking his time to sign it because he knows he can think about it for six months (in theory twelve when involving another English club) - and he can use that time to answer the questions surrounding his form and fitness. Because the whole point of this thread is predicated on the notion that no one can say with any certainty which Michael Owen will turn up in 2008/09.

 

If he starts at Arsenal and goes on to score 10 goals before winter sets in, you can be sure Ashley will make an improved contract offer, which will be won on merit. If not, his agent will find out who is interested - again, a decision that he is in no rush to make. Sure, we want to know, and you can bet the club's hierarchy want to know too, but as someone said right at the start - Owen is holding all the power...

 

For those who advocate selling Owen this window may I ask what sort of fee you think might be appropriate, what clubs might be interested, whether they could afford fee and wages, and whether Owen would feel disposed to move to such a club. Because Owen might hold all the power at the moment, but we might also be the very best club that would want him. And for a player who has to prove his best days aren't behind him, isn't the question mor: Why would Owen want to move?

 

[mrmojorisin75]

 

For those who advocate selling Owen this window may I ask what sort of fee you think might be appropriate, what clubs might be interested, whether they could afford fee and wages, and whether Owen would feel disposed to move to such a club. Because Owen might hold all the power at the moment, but we might also be the very best club that would want him. And for a player who has to prove his best days aren't behind him, isn't the question mor: Why would Owen want to move?

 

 

nail on head; i'd sell him assuming we had a replacement but you've picked all the reasons he won't be sold there and why he'll most likely walk (imo) at the end of his contract

 

i've just got no faith in the guy, he's englands michael owen to me nothing more nothing less - his loyalty so far in his career has been to money and country, not club(s)

[Guest sittingontheball]

Keane scored 80 in 197 for Spurs in the Prem.

Owen has 18 in 43 for us in the Prem.

 

Apparently other managers, notably Eriksson, have wanted Owen to play in a more withdrawn role for quite some time. Now KK has convinced him to do it, we've seen a big improvement in his play. He finished last season a different player. Rather than simply regaining form (which may be temporary and pace dependent), he has a whole new use that showed great promise in real Premiership games. After 29 games last season, the injuries don't worry me so much, especially since his new role depends on nous and less on pace.

 

Of course, if we have a masterplan with another formation and a better player ready to sign, then we should let him go.  If he won't sign a realistic new contract either, then let him go if we can get good money.  But I wouldn't scream sell because he's finished or a crock.  Because on last season's form he is neither. And as Keane shows, goalscorers cost a fortune.

 

[UV]

 

For those who advocate selling Owen this window may I ask what sort of fee you think might be appropriate, what clubs might be interested, whether they could afford fee and wages, and whether Owen would feel disposed to move to such a club. Because Owen might hold all the power at the moment, but we might also be the very best club that would want him. And for a player who has to prove his best days aren't behind him, isn't the question mor: Why would Owen want to move?

 

 

nail on head; i'd sell him assuming we had a replacement but you've picked all the reasons he won't be sold there and why he'll most likely walk (imo) at the end of his contract

 

i've just got no faith in the guy, he's englands michael owen to me nothing more nothing less - his loyalty so far in his career has been to money and country, not club(s)

 

Why the hell does Owen always get singled out as having no loyalty?

The only players these days who are loyal to a club over personal wealth and/or ambition are the ones no other fucker wants. Any player who is in demand will use any leverage they can to get more of the vast amounts of money in the game which people pay to see THEM. It's annoying to us as supporters, but it's nothing every single one of us wouldn't do ourselves, and anyone who says they wouldn't is lying.

 

except Keane does score many and will comfortably outscore Owen this season

 

I'll take that bet. How much? 5 goals comfortable enough?

[Dr Venkman]

 

For those who advocate selling Owen this window may I ask what sort of fee you think might be appropriate, what clubs might be interested, whether they could afford fee and wages, and whether Owen would feel disposed to move to such a club. Because Owen might hold all the power at the moment, but we might also be the very best club that would want him. And for a player who has to prove his best days aren't behind him, isn't the question mor: Why would Owen want to move?

 

 

nail on head; i'd sell him assuming we had a replacement but you've picked all the reasons he won't be sold there and why he'll most likely walk (imo) at the end of his contract

 

i've just got no faith in the guy, he's englands michael owen to me nothing more nothing less - his loyalty so far in his career has been to money and country, not club(s)

 

Why the hell does Owen always get singled out as having no loyalty?

The only players these days who are loyal to a club over personal wealth and/or ambition are the ones no other fucker wants. Any player who is in demand will use any leverage they can to get more of the vast amounts of money in the game which people pay to see THEM. It's annoying to us as supporters, but it's nothing every single one of us wouldn't do ourselves, and anyone who says they wouldn't is lying.

 

except Keane does score many and will comfortably outscore Owen this season

 

I'll take that bet. How much? 5 goals comfortable enough?

 

they key there is which managers the players are playing under

[toptoon]

I haven't got a strong opinion on this one, but if i had to have an opinon it would be this: IF someone came in with a reasonable/very good offer for him and IF he was willing to go and IF we could get a good replacement i'd personally sell him. Especially as he has 1 year left on his contract and IF he woulden't sign another one.

 

Lots of IF's there though.

 

I woulden't be shocked if Keegan gets us very creative this season and he ends up having a good season, because he's a good finisher.

 

On the other side of the coin. He's expensive, Injury prone and not as good or quick as he was, now might be the bestime to cash in. I would ideally like Owen and Martins to stay and add a 'Drogba type' striker (ok i know we won't get one quite that good) Big, prefferably quick striker who can finish, hold the ball up ect. If the Mackems can find K. Jones surely we can find someone better! I still want us to have a 'Big Man' quality striker. I don't rate Smith and unlike many on here i do not rate Viduka either.

[mrmojorisin75]

 

For those who advocate selling Owen this window may I ask what sort of fee you think might be appropriate, what clubs might be interested, whether they could afford fee and wages, and whether Owen would feel disposed to move to such a club. Because Owen might hold all the power at the moment, but we might also be the very best club that would want him. And for a player who has to prove his best days aren't behind him, isn't the question mor: Why would Owen want to move?

 

 

nail on head; i'd sell him assuming we had a replacement but you've picked all the reasons he won't be sold there and why he'll most likely walk (imo) at the end of his contract

 

i've just got no faith in the guy, he's englands michael owen to me nothing more nothing less - his loyalty so far in his career has been to money and country, not club(s)

 

Why the hell does Owen always get singled out as having no loyalty?

The only players these days who are loyal to a club over personal wealth and/or ambition are the ones no other fucker wants. Any player who is in demand will use any leverage they can to get more of the vast amounts of money in the game which people pay to see THEM. It's annoying to us as supporters, but it's nothing every single one of us wouldn't do ourselves, and anyone who says they wouldn't is lying.

 

except Keane does score many and will comfortably outscore Owen this season

 

I'll take that bet. How much? 5 goals comfortable enough?

 

two reasons UV, although i'm not singling him out:

 

1. he fucked liverpool with his contract situation, the club that made him the player he was, he forced them to accept a shite fee for a player who at that time was worth basically what we paid for him if not more (i understand this is his right but it doesn't mean i have to like it)

 

2. the england factor - i don't know the guy, and i did say i have no faith in him but for me he's an england player first in the exact same way as giggs was always a  man u player rather than a wales one...this, again imo, has become less of a factor now that he's not "wanted" by cappello so he's become happy to talk up his newcastle game

 

subjective mate, as always

[Optimistic Nut]

The only way the club (that's Ashley & Keegan) would even contemplate letting him go, is if someone of a similar standing replaced him...and by that I mean Henry, van Nistelrooy, etc.

 

Not going to happen.

[tmonkey]

Hasnt signed a contract yet.

 

Thought he was excellent last season as an attacking midfielder, brought new life to his game, and am looking forward eagerly to see him in the same role this season. He could be the difference between mid table and finishing in a European spot.

 

However, I just cant trust the bloke. He's shown himself in the past to be a bit of a mercenary, we all know for a fact that him and his agents were trying to engineer a move back when Shepherd discretely gave the game away, and this was when he had done f*** all for us other than eating up huge wages. In his first season here, prior to the major injuries, he was constantly injured for us with a minor one, yet somehow always available for England - might not have been feigning injury, but there was no doubt at the time that he was rushing back to play for the team that was clearly his priority, which wasnt his employers. His form last season was good, as were his all round efforts on the pitch, but that could easily be down to him having no alternative with none of the big clubs interested in him.

 

The situation now is that on top of that questionable commitment from several years ago, theres the fear that he's going to run his contract down, and although that's fair enough for him and on the face of it I still think we'd be better off using him this season even if we lose him for free at the end (higher up on the table meaning more money offsetting the loss of a possible transfer fee, better chance to attract a better replacement meaning in the long term we'd be better off, etc etc), players who know they'll be leaving tend to have commitment and form issues with regards to their current employers, and if that happens with Owen then we could well only see him play for us once in a blue moon. For his last season at Liverpool, he barely did anything in between the constant speculation of him leaving on a Bosman and being injured, and its a worry for me how easy it is to foresee him having another season with constant "minor" injury problems where he plays a few games and then is injured for a few months, right up until the point he leaves. Similar to Emre possibly - although admittedly theres an element of paranoia to all this.

 

Still, I dont think anyone would purchase him for a good fee outright, so we've probably got no option but to hope he has a good season with us irrespective of his contract.

[UV]

The situation now is that on top of that questionable commitment from several years ago, theres the fear that he's going to run his contract down, and although that's fair enough for him and on the face of it I still think we'd be better off using him this season even if we lose him for free at the end (higher up on the table meaning more money offsetting the loss of a possible transfer fee, better chance to attract a better replacement meaning in the long term we'd be better off, etc etc), players who know they'll be leaving tend to have commitment and form issues with regards to their current employers, and if that happens with Owen then we could well only see him play for us once in a blue moon. For his last season at Liverpool, he barely did anything in between the constant speculation of him leaving on a Bosman and being injured, and its a worry for me how easy it is to foresee him having another season with constant "minor" injury problems where he plays a few games and then is injured for a few months, right up until the point he leaves. Similar to Emre possibly - although admittedly theres an element of paranoia to all this.

 

Yet with others (Yakubu and Viduka spring to mind) the accusation is that they only play well when their contract is nearly up.

 

If what you say is the case with Owen, then it will severely dent the signing on fee and wages he will be able to demand at the end of the season. Every other interested club will also be worried about his fitness and current ability, so if he's as mercenary as people seem to think, he could have no better incentive than to prove his worth to other clubs and have a great season for us.

[merlin]

If they both play the same number of games, there is NO way that Keane will out-score Michael Owen.

 

Keane is  a good striker, one I wanted NUFC to buy when he was up for sale at Inter Milan, but it never happened and of the two, Owen is far more important to us than Keane is to Liverpool.

 

Owen's only question mark is his fitness ; his ability is beyond doubt and talk of loyalty in this day & age is naive to say the least...we would NEVER have been in the ball-park to sign Alan Shearer if he was 25 and up for grabs today for all that he is a Geordie ; Shearer signed for NUFC not only out of club loyalty, but because we were then realistic Title challengers.

Players want to do the best for themselves, and just because Owen plays for England seems to invoke some kind of 'Chip on the shoulder' response from some fans at Newcastle who are still fighting class wars

from the past and see England as 'Cockneys'..

 

Whether people like it or not, we are NOT going to be able to sign a top player with Owen's striking ability if he goes ; the best we can do is try to get a young player who shows promise before other clubs get him, OR win a few things which would enable us to compete for top players...to do the latter means we need players like Owen who can help us win matches..!

[bodson]

If its possible, we should sell him to some foolish club for us much as possible.

[TRon]

Just sign another player who can deputise when either he or Viduka aren't available ( quite a lot) and by all means keep both the fuckers.

 

 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Just sign another player who can deputise when either he or Viduka aren't available ( quite a lot) and by all means keep both the fuckers.

 

I'd go along with that as the best option.

[tmonkey]

The situation now is that on top of that questionable commitment from several years ago, theres the fear that he's going to run his contract down, and although that's fair enough for him and on the face of it I still think we'd be better off using him this season even if we lose him for free at the end (higher up on the table meaning more money offsetting the loss of a possible transfer fee, better chance to attract a better replacement meaning in the long term we'd be better off, etc etc), players who know they'll be leaving tend to have commitment and form issues with regards to their current employers, and if that happens with Owen then we could well only see him play for us once in a blue moon. For his last season at Liverpool, he barely did anything in between the constant speculation of him leaving on a Bosman and being injured, and its a worry for me how easy it is to foresee him having another season with constant "minor" injury problems where he plays a few games and then is injured for a few months, right up until the point he leaves. Similar to Emre possibly - although admittedly theres an element of paranoia to all this.

 

Yet with others (Yakubu and Viduka spring to mind) the accusation is that they only play well when their contract is nearly up.

 

If what you say is the case with Owen, then it will severely dent the signing on fee and wages he will be able to demand at the end of the season. Every other interested club will also be worried about his fitness and current ability, so if he's as mercenary as people seem to think, he could have no better incentive than to prove his worth to other clubs and have a great season for us.

 

Granted some do play better prior to the contract finishing, e.g. Viduka, but im not so sure that Owen needs to. I think on a free transfer, someone like ManU or Chelsea might just take the risk on him, but even so, you'd think as a bare minimum, Liverpool would still be interested in him, firstly because it'd be a fan-appeasing signing ala Robbie Fowler despite what some scousers might say about bad feelings regarding the way he left for Madrid, and secondly because with Keane/Torres there, Owen on a free would be well worth the risk for them because if he's injured its not going to hit the team like it would a mid table side, on top of which Rafa Benitez always likes having the ability to chop and change the team he puts out as he sees fit.

 

As stated, im a bit paranoid when it comes to Owen, split in two minds so to speak. On the one hand, based on last season, I think hes a good professional and he'll want to play as many games as possible prior to leaving if he chooses to do so. On the other, prior to last season, he did seem to come accross as a mercenary - i.e. someone who had little interest in playing for us, was only here for the money (as per Svenn Goran's revelation) and initially to salvage his England world cup hopes (didnt want to come here at all prior to being forced to), was only really interested in playing for his country and not his club (first 6 months were a bit of a joke, the number of times he was injured yet instantly back for an international game), and didnt think twice about trying to leave after two years of doing nothing to repay the money and faith invested in him.

[Guest rebel_yell12]

The situation now is that on top of that questionable commitment from several years ago, theres the fear that he's going to run his contract down, and although that's fair enough for him and on the face of it I still think we'd be better off using him this season even if we lose him for free at the end (higher up on the table meaning more money offsetting the loss of a possible transfer fee, better chance to attract a better replacement meaning in the long term we'd be better off, etc etc), players who know they'll be leaving tend to have commitment and form issues with regards to their current employers, and if that happens with Owen then we could well only see him play for us once in a blue moon. For his last season at Liverpool, he barely did anything in between the constant speculation of him leaving on a Bosman and being injured, and its a worry for me how easy it is to foresee him having another season with constant "minor" injury problems where he plays a few games and then is injured for a few months, right up until the point he leaves. Similar to Emre possibly - although admittedly theres an element of paranoia to all this.

 

Yet with others (Yakubu and Viduka spring to mind) the accusation is that they only play well when their contract is nearly up.

 

If what you say is the case with Owen, then it will severely dent the signing on fee and wages he will be able to demand at the end of the season. Every other interested club will also be worried about his fitness and current ability, so if he's as mercenary as people seem to think, he could have no better incentive than to prove his worth to other clubs and have a great season for us.

 

Granted some do play better prior to the contract finishing, e.g. Viduka, but im not so sure that Owen needs to. I think on a free transfer, someone like ManU or Chelsea might just take the risk on him, but even so, you'd think as a bare minimum, Liverpool would still be interested in him, firstly because it'd be a fan-appeasing signing ala Robbie Fowler despite what some scousers might say about bad feelings regarding the way he left for Madrid, and secondly because with Keane/Torres there, Owen on a free would be well worth the risk for them because if he's injured its not going to hit the team like it would a mid table side, on top of which Rafa Benitez always likes having the ability to chop and change the team he puts out as he sees fit.

 

As stated, im a bit paranoid when it comes to Owen, split in two minds so to speak. On the one hand, based on last season, I think hes a good professional and he'll want to play as many games as possible prior to leaving if he chooses to do so. On the other, prior to last season, he did seem to come accross as a mercenary - i.e. someone who had little interest in playing for us, was only here for the money (as per Svenn Goran's revelation) and initially to salvage his England world cup hopes (didnt want to come here at all prior to being forced to), was only really interested in playing for his country and not his club (first 6 months were a bit of a joke, the number of times he was injured yet instantly back for an international game), and didnt think twice about trying to leave after two years of doing nothing to repay the money and faith invested in him.

 

I can't say the rest of the complaints/suspicions aren't fair enough (even if I disagree with interpretation on a few), but I bolded one that I've always thought was unfair.  Owen has denied, multiple times, ever saying anything of the sort.  I know, that's expected, but how he chose to do so made me listen.  He admitted that pay was a factor -- lets be honest, he's got a limited amount of time to get the best for himself and his family and pay is an important factor of ALL new jobs -- but that regular football was his primary goal (probably a good part of his England world cup hopes, tbh).  He also said that he would never have said anything of the sort to the England manager: first, because it wasn't true, and second, because it would make him look horrific to a man who had great control over his career (Owen made his name for England, really).  Owen said in his book that Eriksson called personally to apologise, that his comment was misquoted and taken out of all context, that what was intended was that Owen could be, with sufficient funds, bought from NUFC (he had a get-out clause, now widely known), and that Liverpool had been priced out of Owen's sale from Madrid (that part was about money, Madrid wasn't going to take Liverpool's offered 8-10 mil over Newcastle's offered 16 mil just because Owen would have preferred Liverpool). 

 

 

I've always, as a Liverpool fan, thought that Owen and Liverpool Football Club were equally at fault for the mess with Real Madrid.  Owen had said from age 18 that he wanted to try playing abroad, but wouldn't want to play for another English club.  However, he really looked bad because he said he was signing a new contract with Liverpool and two weeks later was off to Madrid.  Probably why he keeps his mouth shut now about his contracts -- better to get nailed for not talking than for saying the wrong thing.  However, the rumours from inside the club was that Owen wanted to stay, that Benitez had been partially his shout for the new manager (the top players were consulted -- including Owen & Gerrard), and Benitez wanted rid because he thought the striker-rotation policy would be ruined by Owen's presence.  Benitez also, according to rumours, wanted rid of the "Merseyside Mafia" -- a group of 5 players that "ran" so to speak, the dressing room, and included Carragher, Owen, Gerrard, Murphy and Hamann.  Within one year, Owen, Murphy and Hamann were all gone -- and Owen & Murphy within that same summer (which lends some credence, imo).  All three had been key starters for Liverpool for years.  Liverpool, because it had never occured to them that Owen might be sold that summer, had let him draw out his contract negotiations.  Owen, because it had not occurred to him, had not hurried the process from his end either.  According to both Gerrard and Carragher -- Owen's closest friends at Liverpool, whom he had played with since age 11 and 16 respectively, and admits to still speaking to at least several times per week -- were shocked at the move, which lends credence to this not being a planned move from Owen.  Yes, he let his contract run down, but it was not a pre-meditated move to screw Liverpool Football Club.  So I'm not sure I'd expect that sort of behavior from him now.  But, I DO expect him to negotiate to get a good deal for himself, no doubt.  In that, he's as much a mercenary as every other footballer (look at Lampard, for pity's sake, or Gerrard's two summers worth of Chelsea-gate).

 

As for how to "deal" with Owen's issues (fitness, not class) -- I'm completely in agreement with Big TRon.

[tmonkey]

The situation now is that on top of that questionable commitment from several years ago, theres the fear that he's going to run his contract down, and although that's fair enough for him and on the face of it I still think we'd be better off using him this season even if we lose him for free at the end (higher up on the table meaning more money offsetting the loss of a possible transfer fee, better chance to attract a better replacement meaning in the long term we'd be better off, etc etc), players who know they'll be leaving tend to have commitment and form issues with regards to their current employers, and if that happens with Owen then we could well only see him play for us once in a blue moon. For his last season at Liverpool, he barely did anything in between the constant speculation of him leaving on a Bosman and being injured, and its a worry for me how easy it is to foresee him having another season with constant "minor" injury problems where he plays a few games and then is injured for a few months, right up until the point he leaves. Similar to Emre possibly - although admittedly theres an element of paranoia to all this.

 

Yet with others (Yakubu and Viduka spring to mind) the accusation is that they only play well when their contract is nearly up.

 

If what you say is the case with Owen, then it will severely dent the signing on fee and wages he will be able to demand at the end of the season. Every other interested club will also be worried about his fitness and current ability, so if he's as mercenary as people seem to think, he could have no better incentive than to prove his worth to other clubs and have a great season for us.

 

Granted some do play better prior to the contract finishing, e.g. Viduka, but im not so sure that Owen needs to. I think on a free transfer, someone like ManU or Chelsea might just take the risk on him, but even so, you'd think as a bare minimum, Liverpool would still be interested in him, firstly because it'd be a fan-appeasing signing ala Robbie Fowler despite what some scousers might say about bad feelings regarding the way he left for Madrid, and secondly because with Keane/Torres there, Owen on a free would be well worth the risk for them because if he's injured its not going to hit the team like it would a mid table side, on top of which Rafa Benitez always likes having the ability to chop and change the team he puts out as he sees fit.

 

As stated, im a bit paranoid when it comes to Owen, split in two minds so to speak. On the one hand, based on last season, I think hes a good professional and he'll want to play as many games as possible prior to leaving if he chooses to do so. On the other, prior to last season, he did seem to come accross as a mercenary - i.e. someone who had little interest in playing for us, was only here for the money (as per Svenn Goran's revelation) and initially to salvage his England world cup hopes (didnt want to come here at all prior to being forced to), was only really interested in playing for his country and not his club (first 6 months were a bit of a joke, the number of times he was injured yet instantly back for an international game), and didnt think twice about trying to leave after two years of doing nothing to repay the money and faith invested in him.

 

I can't say the rest of the complaints/suspicions aren't fair enough (even if I disagree with interpretation on a few), but I bolded one that I've always thought was unfair.  Owen has denied, multiple times, ever saying anything of the sort.  I know, that's expected, but how he chose to do so made me listen.  He admitted that pay was a factor -- lets be honest, he's got a limited amount of time to get the best for himself and his family and pay is an important factor of ALL new jobs -- but that regular football was his primary goal (probably a good part of his England world cup hopes, tbh).  He also said that he would never have said anything of the sort to the England manager: first, because it wasn't true, and second, because it would make him look horrific to a man who had great control over his career (Owen made his name for England, really).  Owen said in his book that Eriksson called personally to apologise, that his comment was misquoted and taken out of all context, that what was intended was that Owen could be, with sufficient funds, bought from NUFC (he had a get-out clause, now widely known), and that Liverpool had been priced out of Owen's sale from Madrid (that part was about money, Madrid wasn't going to take Liverpool's offered 8-10 mil over Newcastle's offered 16 mil just because Owen would have preferred Liverpool). 

 

 

I've always, as a Liverpool fan, thought that Owen and Liverpool Football Club were equally at fault for the mess with Real Madrid.  Owen had said from age 18 that he wanted to try playing abroad, but wouldn't want to play for another English club.  However, he really looked bad because he said he was signing a new contract with Liverpool and two weeks later was off to Madrid.  Probably why he keeps his mouth shut now about his contracts -- better to get nailed for not talking than for saying the wrong thing.  However, the rumours from inside the club was that Owen wanted to stay, that Benitez had been partially his shout for the new manager (the top players were consulted -- including Owen & Gerrard), and Benitez wanted rid because he thought the striker-rotation policy would be ruined by Owen's presence.  Benitez also, according to rumours, wanted rid of the "Merseyside Mafia" -- a group of 5 players that "ran" so to speak, the dressing room, and included Carragher, Owen, Gerrard, Murphy and Hamann.  Within one year, Owen, Murphy and Hamann were all gone -- and Owen & Murphy within that same summer (which lends some credence, imo).  All three had been key starters for Liverpool for years.  Liverpool, because it had never occured to them that Owen might be sold that summer, had let him draw out his contract negotiations.  Owen, because it had not occurred to him, had not hurried the process from his end either.  According to both Gerrard and Carragher -- Owen's closest friends at Liverpool, whom he had played with since age 11 and 16 respectively, and admits to still speaking to at least several times per week -- were shocked at the move, which lends credence to this not being a planned move from Owen.  Yes, he let his contract run down, but it was not a pre-meditated move to screw Liverpool Football Club.  So I'm not sure I'd expect that sort of behavior from him now.  But, I DO expect him to negotiate to get a good deal for himself, no doubt.  In that, he's as much a mercenary as every other footballer (look at Lampard, for pity's sake, or Gerrard's two summers worth of Chelsea-gate).

 

As for how to "deal" with Owen's issues (fitness, not class) -- I'm completely in agreement with Big TRon.

 

Point taken about the Svenn revelations. In fact, quite clearly Fabricio Coloccini has joined us because of the money we've offered, so it is harsh to criticise Owen for that.

 

Having said that, I think when it comes to Owen, if you look at each individual criticism, it'd be easy to point to many other players who have done something similar, and thereby say we're being too harsh/critical of him. Its when you combine them that you start to wonder what he's doing with us and where his commitments/intentions lie. But as stated, that could easily be down to being paranoid about a player who is still our biggest star in terms of reputation at least. On top of which, theres the resentment of the implications of such behaivour - i.e. the notion that he thinks he's too good for us or should be playing for someone better, when for me although he's a good calibre player with natural abilities that arent found easily, he's nowhere near too good for us - in fact, he's pretty inferior to some of his NUFC striking predecessors, in the Premiership at least.

 

As for the way he moved to Madrid, there seem to be quite a few different versions according to various Pool fans ive spoken to down the years - most of them putting Owen in a negative light in terms of being cold, calculating, ruthless, etc, i.e. he cleverly ran his contract down. But if what you say is true with regards to the "Merseyside Mafia" and Benitez wanting Owen out of the club so that he could adopt the squad rotation policy, then why did Benitez attempt to resign Owen for 8mill a year later, or at the very least had given his blessing to the Liverpool board to make the move? Im pretty sure I recall Benitez being in favour of the move at the time. If there's no friction between Benitez and Owen, then it lends more credence to the version where Owen has strung his club along before leaving on a Bosman.

[Guest rebel_yell12]

 

Granted some do play better prior to the contract finishing, e.g. Viduka, but im not so sure that Owen needs to. I think on a free transfer, someone like ManU or Chelsea might just take the risk on him, but even so, you'd think as a bare minimum, Liverpool would still be interested in him, firstly because it'd be a fan-appeasing signing ala Robbie Fowler despite what some scousers might say about bad feelings regarding the way he left for Madrid, and secondly because with Keane/Torres there, Owen on a free would be well worth the risk for them because if he's injured its not going to hit the team like it would a mid table side, on top of which Rafa Benitez always likes having the ability to chop and change the team he puts out as he sees fit.

 

As stated, im a bit paranoid when it comes to Owen, split in two minds so to speak. On the one hand, based on last season, I think hes a good professional and he'll want to play as many games as possible prior to leaving if he chooses to do so. On the other, prior to last season, he did seem to come accross as a mercenary - i.e. someone who had little interest in playing for us, was only here for the money (as per Svenn Goran's revelation) and initially to salvage his England world cup hopes (didnt want to come here at all prior to being forced to), was only really interested in playing for his country and not his club (first 6 months were a bit of a joke, the number of times he was injured yet instantly back for an international game), and didnt think twice about trying to leave after two years of doing nothing to repay the money and faith invested in him.

 

I can't say the rest of the complaints/suspicions aren't fair enough (even if I disagree with interpretation on a few), but I bolded one that I've always thought was unfair.  Owen has denied, multiple times, ever saying anything of the sort.  I know, that's expected, but how he chose to do so made me listen.  He admitted that pay was a factor -- lets be honest, he's got a limited amount of time to get the best for himself and his family and pay is an important factor of ALL new jobs -- but that regular football was his primary goal (probably a good part of his England world cup hopes, tbh).  He also said that he would never have said anything of the sort to the England manager: first, because it wasn't true, and second, because it would make him look horrific to a man who had great control over his career (Owen made his name for England, really).  Owen said in his book that Eriksson called personally to apologise, that his comment was misquoted and taken out of all context, that what was intended was that Owen could be, with sufficient funds, bought from NUFC (he had a get-out clause, now widely known), and that Liverpool had been priced out of Owen's sale from Madrid (that part was about money, Madrid wasn't going to take Liverpool's offered 8-10 mil over Newcastle's offered 16 mil just because Owen would have preferred Liverpool). 

 

 

I've always, as a Liverpool fan, thought that Owen and Liverpool Football Club were equally at fault for the mess with Real Madrid.  Owen had said from age 18 that he wanted to try playing abroad, but wouldn't want to play for another English club.  However, he really looked bad because he said he was signing a new contract with Liverpool and two weeks later was off to Madrid.  Probably why he keeps his mouth shut now about his contracts -- better to get nailed for not talking than for saying the wrong thing.  However, the rumours from inside the club was that Owen wanted to stay, that Benitez had been partially his shout for the new manager (the top players were consulted -- including Owen & Gerrard), and Benitez wanted rid because he thought the striker-rotation policy would be ruined by Owen's presence.  Benitez also, according to rumours, wanted rid of the "Merseyside Mafia" -- a group of 5 players that "ran" so to speak, the dressing room, and included Carragher, Owen, Gerrard, Murphy and Hamann.  Within one year, Owen, Murphy and Hamann were all gone -- and Owen & Murphy within that same summer (which lends some credence, imo).  All three had been key starters for Liverpool for years.  Liverpool, because it had never occured to them that Owen might be sold that summer, had let him draw out his contract negotiations.  Owen, because it had not occurred to him, had not hurried the process from his end either.  According to both Gerrard and Carragher -- Owen's closest friends at Liverpool, whom he had played with since age 11 and 16 respectively, and admits to still speaking to at least several times per week -- were shocked at the move, which lends credence to this not being a planned move from Owen.  Yes, he let his contract run down, but it was not a pre-meditated move to screw Liverpool Football Club.  So I'm not sure I'd expect that sort of behavior from him now.  But, I DO expect him to negotiate to get a good deal for himself, no doubt.  In that, he's as much a mercenary as every other footballer (look at Lampard, for pity's sake, or Gerrard's two summers worth of Chelsea-gate).

 

As for how to "deal" with Owen's issues (fitness, not class) -- I'm completely in agreement with Big TRon.

 

Point taken about the Svenn revelations. In fact, quite clearly Fabricio Coloccini has joined us because of the money we've offered, so it is harsh to criticise Owen for that.

 

Having said that, I think when it comes to Owen, if you look at each individual criticism, it'd be easy to point to many other players who have done something similar, and thereby say we're being too harsh/critical of him. Its when you combine them that you start to wonder what he's doing with us and where his commitments/intentions lie. But as stated, that could easily be down to being paranoid about a player who is still our biggest star in terms of reputation at least. On top of which, theres the resentment of the implications of such behaivour - i.e. the notion that he thinks he's too good for us or should be playing for someone better, when for me although he's a good calibre player with natural abilities that arent found easily, he's nowhere near too good for us - in fact, he's pretty inferior to some of his NUFC striking predecessors, in the Premiership at least.

 

As for the way he moved to Madrid, there seem to be quite a few different versions according to various Pool fans ive spoken to down the years - most of them putting Owen in a negative light in terms of being cold, calculating, ruthless, etc, i.e. he cleverly ran his contract down. But if what you say is true with regards to the "Merseyside Mafia" and Benitez wanting Owen out of the club so that he could adopt the squad rotation policy, then why did Benitez attempt to resign Owen for 8mill a year later, or at the very least had given his blessing to the Liverpool board to make the move? Im pretty sure I recall Benitez being in favour of the move at the time. If there's no friction between Benitez and Owen, then it lends more credence to the version where Owen has strung his club along before leaving on a Bosman.

 

It was one of Benitez's own friends (I think Guillame Belagua...something like that, he wrote a book in like 2005) that stated that Benitez did not want to keep Owen.  He thought Owen was too influential in the dressing room and would not accept the rotation policy -- if Owen was unhappy/non-compliant, it would lead to problems with his good mates, Carragher, Murphy, Hamann and Gerrard.  So...get rid of the problem by getting rid of Michael Owen.  And from what I heard, Liverpool's BOARD wanted Owen back in 2005 and Benitez gave blessing so long as it was inexpensive (8 mil) and as he'd spent a good deal of the his transfer kitty already that summer, thus making it so that Liverpool would have to stretch significantly to afford what Madrid wanted (apparently, 12 mil was their original asking price).  This, essentially, meant that unless no other club was interested AND Madrid was willing to drop their asking price, Owen wasn't going back to Liverpool -- hardly sounds like Benitez really wanted him at all.  As for friction between Owen and Benitez, there's a widely accepted story in Liverpool that when Benitez traveled to Portugal during Euro 04 to meet with the Liverpool players there, he had an hour-long meeting with Gerrard, 30 minutes with Carragher, and 5 minutes with Owen.  That hardly bespeaks of a great "here's what I want to do with the club" conversation, does it?  Also, this is again rumour, Benitez felt that the club was too "clique-ish" and he distrusted that central group of five's influence over their fellow players.  This has some credence, since Benitez immediately abolished the long-held practice of establishing roommate pairings that stayed the same for years -- for instance, Murphy & Gerrard had been roommates on all away trips, etc., for six seasons or so, and Owen & Carragher the same since playing on the Youth Team together in 1996.  Now, the roommates are all rotated, so that cliques don't develop. 

 

I find it odd that a lot of Liverpool fans never really liked Michael Owen.  They certainly never 'understood' him like they did/do Fowler, Gerrard and Carragher -- other products of the Academy.  Owen IS clever, an inveterate professional ("cold" if you will), and understands that he has a limited time in his career to achieve things/experience things, and many of the more vocal Liverpool fans don't seem to understand or like those tendencies in their players.  He suffered particularly from the "England's Michael Owen" problem he still has.  Even before he left, this was true, and once he did leave (for a cheap price because of 1 year left on his contract) his reputation was hardly going to get better.  I don't see any reason for Carragher to lie in interviews, nor Gerrard to lie in his own book and since both said it came as a surprise to all of them (who were closest to Owen) that he was sold -- and Owen said it was a very quick decision in HIS book -- it rather disputes the great theory that Michael Owen purposefully ripped off LFC in some pre-meditated move.  Besides, it's not as if the club LOST money on him.  They spent nothing on getting him (signed him at age 11) and he more than made up for any costs of bringing him through the academy over his seven seasons at Liverpool.  Over the years, Liverpool made a LOT of money off Michael Owen -- and got an FA Cup as well.  I'm sure Newcastle fans would be content to have forked out 16 mil plus wages if he managed another "Owen Cup Final" in the black-and-white.  Imagine if he'd been a freebie.

 

According to Owen's book, and alluded to in Carragher's account as well as Gerrard's, it was made clear to him that he would not be getting regular football at Liverpool because of the rotation policy.  Benitez didn't care if he was a top-class international striker, the system was the system -- it wasn't personal dislike (theyd barely met), it was about preserving the system.  He could accept that he would regularly be on the bench -- even if on top-form -- or he could accept a move to another club.  Liverpool only wanted to sell abroad, if possible.  Real Madrid was interested, Owen had been brought up on his father's dream of playing for a club like Real Madrid, and he accepted what he thought was a "once in a lifetime" chance to play for Madrid.  He went, it didn't work out, and the rest is history, so to speak. 

 

I'm not saying Owen isn't clever enough to realise that he has the upper-hand in the current negotiations -- or protective enough of his own self-interest to use that -- just that I don't think he's as much of a calculating b****** as some Liverpool fans seem to think.  Some Liverpool fans have a real martyrdom complex: everyone and everything is out to "get us"/screw LFC over or somesuch notion.  He was partially at fault for the low price Liverpool received (he'd hardly hurried the contract negotiations) but Liverpool had never tried to seriously push for his signature either.  Neither side thought he'd be sold.  Even if Owen IS only protecting his own interest, he has a serious interest in maintaining his "St. Michael" image -- he makes a lot of money off of his clean-cut, "good boy" image.

 

Meant to add -- a rumour I've also heard, that goes along with Owen purposefully running his contract down, was that Houllier had made it clear he would never sell Owen or Gerrard, and both were looking for improvement at Liverpool or to play elsewhere to compete for medals & trophies -- hence both ran their contracts down and were looking at other options (the only way to leave would have been on Bosmans, if the club and/or manager would absolutely refuse to sell whilst they were under contract).  Thus leading to Owen's move to Madrid and two summers of Chelseagate with Gerrard.  Not sure if that's true, but it does rather fit with the mess going on with Gerrard's contract at the same time.

[Guest evertoniansrmongs]

I find absolutely amazing anyone can find any motive other than money to be the reason of Newcastles current predicament.. if anything I would maybe agree to owen wanted to challenge by moving abroad but not now seeing what is going on.. Michael Owen is a hasbeen world star just like Beckham and a new generation has emerged.. Owen is still a very good player but this image of 140k deadlock is laughable as Newcastle is his only hope of achieving a title challenge as big4 have moved on interms of types of player they are after.. Not one of the Man U Arsenal Chelsea and Liverpool possess a Michael Owen type of striker.. The man is a disgrace he should have extended his contract without hesitation for the time Newcastle have nursed him

[EthiGeordie]

people underrate Keane, he scored 1 in 2 for Spurs and created god knows how many. Great player

 

  I remember we had a chance to buy him in 05 yet Sounce said we are not after him and went on and sign Liuqe the rest is history.