N'Zogbia: Lyon interested according to agent

[Dave]

Who compared N'Zogbia to Ronaldo?

[Dave]

Kinnear says he's staying.

 

http://www.nufc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10278~1466088,00.html

 

"The last player we want to sell is James Milner. I am sure he will not be leaving St James' Park."

 

[midds]

Kinnear might be saying something different if N'Zogbia follows Milner's example and slaps a transfer request in. 

[Guest neesy111]

people forget milner was a greedy bastard, wanted a contract whenever he wanted and spat his dummy out by putting in a transfer request

[TRon]

Kinnear says he's staying.

 

http://www.nufc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10278~1466088,00.html

 

"The last player we want to sell is James Milner. I am sure he will not be leaving St James' Park."

 

If PSG want to pay 12m on the other hand....

 

Anyway, love the way some are harping on about a few decent goals (out of numerous appearances) as an example of Charlie's amazing potential (and the continued comparisons to Ronaldo are frankly an embarrassment). Can we point out the goals scored by Duff and Smith from 3-4+ seasons ago to support their continued inclusion in the squad? They've both scored some belters in their time too.

 

No first touch, no composure, no vision, not that much speed, not that much technique, all of those are the key attributes that make Ronaldo the player he is and are the most starkly lacking attributes of Charlie's game. He has some good attributes (aggression, directness/takes players on and can pass) and i'd prefer if he stayed if he was happy to. However, if we could get a decent price, i'm sure we could find a player that adds more value to the side. We are of course required to sell to buy this window, as we all know.

 

 

That bolded bit is what I am skeptical about. Wide players who produce quality consistently are out of our price range or over the hill such as Beckham and Geremi. I think I'd prefer to see Lua lua given a chance rather than waste money on more Duffs or Smiths if Zog is going to be sold. In a nutshell, I don't believe he will be replaced by someone better but I'm happy to be proven wrong on that one.

 

 

[UV]

people forget milner was a greedy bastard, wanted a contract whenever he wanted and spat his dummy out by putting in a transfer request

 

I doubt a player who lets the PFA act as their agent is a particularly greedy one.

 

McGuire added: "To clarify the situation, James did sign a contract 12 months ago. However, this agreement was reached with the club nearly 12 months previous at the point at which Newcastle had agreed to sell James to Aston Villa on transfer deadline day 2006 before cancelling the agreement at the 11th hour.

 

"Since then he has played over 80 games for Newcastle. All James wanted was a deal that reflected his development and that was in line with Newcastle's transfer valuation of him.

 

"Whilst James does have three years left on his current agreement, it is common practice that when a young player signs a long-term contract, this is reviewed and improved on a regular basis with a player's development, but equally it protects the club's position in regard to their transfer value.

[Mick]

people forget milner was a greedy b******, wanted a contract whenever he wanted and spat his dummy out by putting in a transfer request

 

I doubt a player who lets the PFA act as their agent is a particularly greedy one.

 

McGuire added: "To clarify the situation, James did sign a contract 12 months ago. However, this agreement was reached with the club nearly 12 months previous at the point at which Newcastle had agreed to sell James to Aston Villa on transfer deadline day 2006 before cancelling the agreement at the 11th hour.

 

"Since then he has played over 80 games for Newcastle. All James wanted was a deal that reflected his development and that was in line with Newcastle's transfer valuation of him.

 

"Whilst James does have three years left on his current agreement, it is common practice that when a young player signs a long-term contract, this is reviewed and improved on a regular basis with a player's development, but equally it protects the club's position in regard to their transfer value.

 

He was still happy to sign a 4 year contract which he wasn't happy with 12 months later, if he didn't like it then he shouldn't have signed it in the first place. 

[relámpago blanco]

people forget milner was a greedy b******, wanted a contract whenever he wanted and spat his dummy out by putting in a transfer request

 

I doubt a player who lets the PFA act as their agent is a particularly greedy one.

 

McGuire added: "To clarify the situation, James did sign a contract 12 months ago. However, this agreement was reached with the club nearly 12 months previous at the point at which Newcastle had agreed to sell James to Aston Villa on transfer deadline day 2006 before cancelling the agreement at the 11th hour.

 

"Since then he has played over 80 games for Newcastle. All James wanted was a deal that reflected his development and that was in line with Newcastle's transfer valuation of him.

 

"Whilst James does have three years left on his current agreement, it is common practice that when a young player signs a long-term contract, this is reviewed and improved on a regular basis with a player's development, but equally it protects the club's position in regard to their transfer value.

 

He was still happy to sign a 4 year contract which he wasn't happy with 12 months later, if he didn't like it then he shouldn't have signed it in the first place. 

He should never have put in a transfer request it made me think alot less of him as a person.  He always seemed very amiable but obviously not.  12 million though, christ.  Still can't belive we got that.

[UV]

people forget milner was a greedy b******, wanted a contract whenever he wanted and spat his dummy out by putting in a transfer request

 

I doubt a player who lets the PFA act as their agent is a particularly greedy one.

 

McGuire added: "To clarify the situation, James did sign a contract 12 months ago. However, this agreement was reached with the club nearly 12 months previous at the point at which Newcastle had agreed to sell James to Aston Villa on transfer deadline day 2006 before cancelling the agreement at the 11th hour.

 

"Since then he has played over 80 games for Newcastle. All James wanted was a deal that reflected his development and that was in line with Newcastle's transfer valuation of him.

 

"Whilst James does have three years left on his current agreement, it is common practice that when a young player signs a long-term contract, this is reviewed and improved on a regular basis with a player's development, but equally it protects the club's position in regard to their transfer value.

 

He was still happy to sign a 4 year contract which he wasn't happy with 12 months later, if he didn't like it then he shouldn't have signed it in the first place. 

He should never have put in a transfer request it made me think alot less of him as a person.  He always seemed very amiable but obviously not.  12 million though, christ.  Still can't belive we got that.

 

I really don't see what he did wrong by putting in a private transfer request after a Summer of trying to get the club to renegotiate his contract and being fobbed off. It's not like he refused to play, leaked rumours of unrest to the press, got players at Villa to say they knew he really wanted to join them, got Martin O'Neill to say Newcastle were stopping his dream move to a big club or anything. The club didn't have to act on his transfer request, it simply meant they made more money when they sold him (as he wouldn't get a "loyalty" payment).

 

I doubt the new deal he wanted would have been half of what most senior players were getting, many of whom played far less games and were of far less use to the team than Milner. Yes it was a good price (we didn't get £12m for him though, Leeds got a chunk of it), but for me it just confirmed it was a lie that we were trying to put together a team a'la Arsenal, and rather we were just buying cheap in the hope of reselling at a profit.

[Dinho lad]

Who compared N'Zogbia to Ronaldo?

 

idiots.

 

Nah seriously....that's the first time I've heard about it.

[quayside]

That statement of Kinnear's isn't the most convincing of denials, and in any case, it's pretty clear from it that he sees him as a squad member rather than a first team regular. That's what Zoggy wants - and that's fair enough at this point in his career.

 

Indeed there's nothing there we haven't heard before prior to a player's exit. Surprised at JFK saying he doesn't know who puts these stories out - wasn't it Zoggy himself saying he wanted to play more football and was flattered by PSG interest? I'm not sure he'd be anything other than a squad player at PSG as well tbh.

[Cronky]

Who compared N'Zogbia to Ronaldo?

 

idiots.

 

Nah seriously....that's the first time I've heard about it.

 

Earlier in the thread, a few people were saying that if Zoggy had been given the same coaching and consideration that Ronaldo had been given during his early, sticky times at Man U, things would have been very different for Zoggy.

 

Not the best comparsion, I don't think, because they are not exactly equals in terms of innate talent.

 

For me, the better comparison would be Ashley Cole, because I think Zoggy's ability would ultimately be best used as an attacking left back, and they aren't too dissimilar in their strengths. Cole struggled at first, but came good in the end. Even then, I think that attitude rather than coaching is the main difference.

[fredbob]

Who compared N'Zogbia to Ronaldo?

 

idiots.

 

Nah seriously....that's the first time I've heard about it.

 

Earlier in the thread, a few people were saying that if Zoggy had been given the same coaching and consideration that Ronaldo had been given during his early, sticky times at Man U, things would have been very different for Zoggy.

 

Not the best comparsion, I don't think, because they are not exactly equals in terms of innate talent.

 

For me, the better comparison would be Ashley Cole, because I think Zoggy's ability would ultimately be best used as an attacking left back, and they aren't too dissimilar in their strengths. Cole struggled at first, but came good in the end. Even then, I think that attitude rather than coaching is the main difference.

 

I dont see him as a full back at all - he doesnt have the positional awareness and defensive capabilites to be fully effective there, Cole has had the benfit of playing there and learning his trade there from a very young age, coupled with an excellent environment to thrive.

 

i think the comparison between Zog and Ronaldo is fair enough to be honest, Ronaldo at 18 reminds me of Zog of the present day. Only difference is that Ronaldo has had a fantastic environment to thrive, has played very consistmnently (not dropped unneccassarily or been dropped in favour of a home nation player or even played out of position) and has been able to learn from his experience despite having "indifferent seasons", (6, 9, 12 goals) ie seasons where he has obviously not been the player he could be.

 

I genuinely feel for Zog - we had a thread on him a while back where i got slated for defending him, he's had a shitty time here both on and off the field, i think people are really underrating the ability to go round a player, not many players in the world can go round aplayer as easily as Zog does, that CAN be harnessed and should of been developed along time ago.

[Yorkie]

I compared N'Zogbia to Ronaldo in the respect that they both showed promise early in their Premiership careers, but failed to deliver consistently. One of them stayed in the team in his best position, the other was kept behind by shite cloggers and had his progress hindered by on and off the field turmoil.

 

I'd be daft to say that N'Zogbia would be up there in the same levels of quality, but the situations were similar to begin with.

[ToonMonty]

I dont see him as a full back at all - he doesnt have the positional awareness and defensive capabilites to be fully effective there, Cole has had the benfit of playing there and learning his trade there from a very young age, coupled with an excellent environment to thrive.

 

Wenger converted Cole from a left winger to a left full back, the season before he made his break through SBR tried to sign him but Wenger turned the bid down (according to the Chronicle so probably bollix)

 

Anyway I like N'Zogbia but find him frustrating at times because there's something missing, a spark or something, he just nevers seems that enthusiastic or happy on the pitch.  Could well be to do with treatment etc but it's always going to make you easier to drop and not get the games you crave \ deserve etc.

 

I think both N'Zogbia and the club's coaching staff need to put alot of work in, firstly to decide on which postion is his best and then on how he gets the best out of his talents. I don't think Charlie has the neccessary attitude and the staff don't have the time given that there are in temp situation at present.

[Alberto2005]

I compared N'Zogbia to Ronaldo in the respect that they both showed promise early in their Premiership careers, but failed to deliver consistently. One of them stayed in the team in his best position, the other was kept behind by shite cloggers and had his progress hindered by on and off the field turmoil.

 

I'd be daft to say that N'Zogbia would be up there in the same levels of quality, but the situations were similar to begin with.

I think it's fair to say Ronaldo was a much more accomplished player when he came to the Premiership.

[UV]

i think the comparison between Zog and Ronaldo is fair enough to be honest, Ronaldo at 18 reminds me of Zog of the present day. Only difference is that Ronaldo has had a fantastic environment to thrive, has played very consistmnently (not dropped unneccassarily or been dropped in favour of a home nation player or even played out of position) and has been able to learn from his experience despite having "indifferent seasons", (6, 9, 12 goals) ie seasons where he has obviously not been the player he could be.

 

I genuinely feel for Zog - we had a thread on him a while back where i got slated for defending him, he's had a shitty time here both on and off the field, i think people are really underrating the ability to go round a player, not many players in the world can go round aplayer as easily as Zog does, that CAN be harnessed and should of been developed along time ago.

 

Maybe we can flog him to Real Madrid then. Shouldn't be greedy though as his career has been stunted, only ask for £50m.

[fredbob]

I dont see him as a full back at all - he doesnt have the positional awareness and defensive capabilites to be fully effective there, Cole has had the benfit of playing there and learning his trade there from a very young age, coupled with an excellent environment to thrive.

 

Wenger converted Cole from a left winger to a left full back, the season before he made his break through SBR tried to sign him but Wenger turned the bid down (according to the Chronicle so probably bollix)

 

Anyway I like N'Zogbia but find him frustrating at times because there's something missing, a spark or something, he just nevers seems that enthusiastic or happy on the pitch.  Could well be to do with treatment etc but it's always going to make you easier to drop and not get the games you crave \ deserve etc.

 

I think both N'Zogbia and the club's coaching staff need to put alot of work in, firstly to decide on which postion is his best and then on how he gets the best out of his talents. I don't think Charlie has the neccessary attitude and the staff don't have the time given that there are in temp situation at present.

 

Is that right? I heard that Cole was a striker before being convertedto a LB at an early age?

 

As long as Duff is here and we have a home nation manager then Zog wont play consistent enough to get a good run of games. I dont see him as a left back becasue he doesnt have the positional sense, hes not a cm becasue hes not disciplined enough and his passing range isnt good enoug, his only position for me is a winger, he'll get back but also offer alot going forward, especially on the break, if he learns to make better decisions (possible with good training) then he can be an very good player.

[Shak]

Pretty much given up on the whole N'Zogbia issue tbh, far too depressing to give any serious thought to.

 

But since I'm bored...

 

Boat has probably sailed for him regarding becoming a top player, which I do believe he had the potential to be. Can beat a man, not lightning fast but quick enough and with the upper body strength to be a very good direct runner with the ball, decent crosser and has the knack for popping up with a goal more than most when he gets on the pitch. All the ingredients there to be a very, very good winger.

 

Hard to feel particularly sorry for the guy, he seems a bit of a prat quite frankly, regardless of how he's been treated.

 

But how anyone can't see what a mess we, as a club, have made of this talented youngster is beyond me.

 

Aged 19, playing in a struggling side in a foreign country, he managed 5 goals and 7 assists in 40 (7 as sub) appearances during the 2005-2006 season. The established and familiar with the English game Damien Duff has 3 goals and 5 assists in 61 total appearances (9 as sub) for Newcastle btw, while as a 19 year old at Man U Ronaldo managed 9 goals and 4 assists in 50 appearances (10 as sub) in the 2004-2005 season. Man U were a wee bit better than us at the time as well.

 

Now, Ronaldo obviously is a more gifted player than N'Zogbia and has become a better player than N'Zogbia could ever have, but the point is that as 19 year olds they were similiar enough. Raw products with a lot of ability but little maturity, and pretty self-centered attitudes. Players that need to be nurtured and made to feel wanted, because the ones with talent are worth it.

 

Ferguson, being a good manager, knew this and has stood by Ronaldo and pretty much built a team around him and has been rewarded with a player that absolutely shreds teams week in-week out. Our solution was naturally to bring in an experienced veteran like Duff to compete with N'Zogbia and hopefully teach him some 'professionalism', or some such bullshit. Sit your best young player on the bench, or even at left-back for the laugh, that's obviously the best way for him to learn and build on an exceptional season the year before.

 

I'd love to know how many games Charlie has started on the LW since the end of the 2005-2006 season. I'll bet it's 20, at the most. Sub appearances and LB roles. He's still managed more goals (4) and more assists (10) than Duff since we signed Duff btw, in spite of this.

 

Baffling quite frankly, and a great representation of what a shit club we've been the last 3 years when an exciting young talent comes along and we somehow manage to make a complete fucking toaster-bath of the whole affair. I wouldn't mind if we'd stuck with him and he'd dipped in form and clearly not been that good. But no, he's been sat on the bench or playing LB while talentless wankers with good attitudes like Duff and Milner have been making a holy show of themselves on the flanks.

 

He'll be off in January, and some past-it piece of shite similiar to Duff will be brought in.

 

And most of the people on here will be happy about it.

[KaKa]

I agree with fredbob.

 

It's one of the reasons I think I would prefer a foreign manager next.

 

I'm sick of all this prem experience talk.

 

The likes of Duff and Taylor will always be some of the first names on the teamsheet despite the fact both Zoggy and Bassong are clearly better football players, who have performed better for us.

 

We don't even put our best 11 out on the pitch so is it any surprise we struggle so much.

[KaKa]

Pretty much given up on the whole N'Zogbia issue tbh, far too depressing to give any serious thought to.

 

But since I'm bored...

 

Boat has probably sailed for him regarding becoming a top player, which I do believe he had the potential to be. Can beat a man, not lightning fast but quick enough and with the upper body strength to be a very good direct runner with the ball, decent crosser and has the knack for popping up with a goal more than most when he gets on the pitch. All the ingredients there to be a very, very good winger.

 

Hard to feel particularly sorry for the guy, he seems a bit of a prat quite frankly, regardless of how he's been treated.

 

But how anyone can't see what a mess we, as a club, have made of this talented youngster is beyond me.

 

Aged 19, playing in a struggling side in a foreign country, he managed 5 goals and 7 assists in 40 (7 as sub) appearances during the 2005-2006 season. The established and familiar with the English game Damien Duff has 3 goals and 5 assists in 61 total appearances (9 as sub) for Newcastle btw, while as a 19 year old at Man U Ronaldo managed 9 goals and 4 assists in 50 appearances (10 as sub) in the 2004-2005 season. Man U were a wee bit better than us at the time as well.

 

Now, Ronaldo obviously is a more gifted player than N'Zogbia and has become a better player than N'Zogbia could ever have, but the point is that as 19 year olds they were similiar enough. Raw products with a lot of ability but little maturity, and pretty self-centered attitudes. Players that need to be nurtured and made to feel wanted, because the ones with talent are worth it.

 

Ferguson, being a good manager, knew this and has stood by Ronaldo and pretty much built a team around him and has been rewarded with a player that absolutely shreds teams week in-week out. Our solution was naturally to bring in an experienced veteran like Duff to compete with N'Zogbia and hopefully teach him some 'professionalism', or some such bullshit. Sit your best young player on the bench, or even at left-back for the laugh, that's obviously the best way for him to learn and build on an exceptional season the year before.

 

I'd love to know how many games Charlie has started on the LW since the end of the 2005-2006 season. I'll bet it's 20, at the most. Sub appearances and LB roles. He's still managed more goals (4) and more assists (10) than Duff since we signed Duff btw, in spite of this.

 

Baffling quite frankly, and a great representation of what a s*** club we've been the last 3 years when an exciting young talent comes along and we somehow manage to make a complete f***ing toaster-bath of the whole affair. I wouldn't mind if we'd stuck with him and he'd dipped in form and clearly not been that good. But no, he's been sat on the bench or playing LB while talentless wankers with good attitudes like Duff and Milner have been making a holy show of themselves on the flanks.

 

He'll be off in January, and some past-it piece of s**** similiar to Duff will be brought in.

 

And most of the people on here will be happy about it.

 

You deserve a round of applause for that right there. Beautifully stated.

 

Depressing is exactly what it is.

 

It is so hard to stumble onto a genuine young talent as well, who cost us absolutely nothing I might add. Pitiful situation.

[Wullie]

I don't think the comparison between the 20 year old N'Zogbia and the 20 year old Ronaldo is ridiculous at all. Ronaldo in his first two seasons, while clearly a cracking young player, was a million miles from the phenomenon that we see today. In his first season, it was a running joke that he would get to the corner of the box, do fifteen stepovers and more often than not, a defender's leg would come out, nick the ball and leave him in a heap. Over time, he's done away with the nonsense and is just sheer end product - I doubt even Fergie saw him becoming what he is now.

 

If you really believe that if after his first season, if Fergie had thought "bit short down the right, Ronaldo has his flaws, I hear Damien Duff's going cheap, he can play there", benched Ronaldo then selected Duff every single time he was fit from then on, limiting Ronaldo to appearances at right back or ten minutes at the end here and there, that Ronaldo would still be arguably the best player in the world today, you're living in a fantasy land imo.

 

I'm not saying that N'Zogbia would be as good as Ronaldo despite the amount of straw men popping up about the comparison - in terms of product alone, Ronaldo is probably the best player the Premiership has ever seen ffs - but Sir Bobby Robson said of Charlie: "he was one of the most naturally gifted players of his age that I had ever seen" and I wouldn't disagree with him - how many 19 year olds can score a goal like Charlie's in the derby? We should have nurtured that talent and we didn't.

 

EDIT: Shak.

 

You're right, it is too depressing to think about. When I think about what I thought Charlie could and would become, it makes my blood boil to see the hash we've made of the whole thing.

[Unbelievable]

Pretty much given up on the whole N'Zogbia issue tbh, far too depressing to give any serious thought to.

 

But since I'm bored...

 

Boat has probably sailed for him regarding becoming a top player, which I do believe he had the potential to be. Can beat a man, not lightning fast but quick enough and with the upper body strength to be a very good direct runner with the ball, decent crosser and has the knack for popping up with a goal more than most when he gets on the pitch. All the ingredients there to be a very, very good winger.

 

Hard to feel particularly sorry for the guy, he seems a bit of a prat quite frankly, regardless of how he's been treated.

 

But how anyone can't see what a mess we, as a club, have made of this talented youngster is beyond me.

 

Aged 19, playing in a struggling side in a foreign country, he managed 5 goals and 7 assists in 40 (7 as sub) appearances during the 2005-2006 season. The established and familiar with the English game Damien Duff has 3 goals and 5 assists in 61 total appearances (9 as sub) for Newcastle btw, while as a 19 year old at Man U Ronaldo managed 9 goals and 4 assists in 50 appearances (10 as sub) in the 2004-2005 season. Man U were a wee bit better than us at the time as well.

 

Now, Ronaldo obviously is a more gifted player than N'Zogbia and has become a better player than N'Zogbia could ever have, but the point is that as 19 year olds they were similiar enough. Raw products with a lot of ability but little maturity, and pretty self-centered attitudes. Players that need to be nurtured and made to feel wanted, because the ones with talent are worth it.

 

Ferguson, being a good manager, knew this and has stood by Ronaldo and pretty much built a team around him and has been rewarded with a player that absolutely shreds teams week in-week out. Our solution was naturally to bring in an experienced veteran like Duff to compete with N'Zogbia and hopefully teach him some 'professionalism', or some such bullshit. Sit your best young player on the bench, or even at left-back for the laugh, that's obviously the best way for him to learn and build on an exceptional season the year before.

 

I'd love to know how many games Charlie has started on the LW since the end of the 2005-2006 season. I'll bet it's 20, at the most. Sub appearances and LB roles. He's still managed more goals (4) and more assists (10) than Duff since we signed Duff btw, in spite of this.

 

Baffling quite frankly, and a great representation of what a s*** club we've been the last 3 years when an exciting young talent comes along and we somehow manage to make a complete f***ing toaster-bath of the whole affair. I wouldn't mind if we'd stuck with him and he'd dipped in form and clearly not been that good. But no, he's been sat on the bench or playing LB while talentless wankers with good attitudes like Duff and Milner have been making a holy show of themselves on the flanks.

 

He'll be off in January, and some past-it piece of s**** similiar to Duff will be brought in.

 

And most of the people on here will be happy about it.

 

Excellent post and pretty much my feelings on the issue as well. It makes me sick how the club has handled his situation as a whole and even more so reading some posters' comments blaming the player more than the environment. If an interim manager of the calibre of Kinnear will be allowed to sell off our best youngsters in order to fund some more talentless, over the top grafters this January the entire Charles N'Zogbia affair will be quite symbolical for how the club as a whole has been mismanaged over the past four and a half years since his arrival.

[Cronky]

Fergie paid about £13 million for Ronaldo, so he must have seen an exceptional talent there. I don't think he's at all surprised at how things have turned out.

 

The one valid resemblance between Zoggy and Ronaldo is that they're both over-rated. Zoggy's an average player who gets mistaken for a good one. Ronaldo is a very good player who gets mistaken for the best player in the world.

[Alberto2005]

Fergie paid about £13 million for Ronaldo, so he must have seen an exceptional talent there. I don't think he's at all surprised at how things have turned out.

 

The one valid resemblance between Zoggy and Ronaldo is that they're both over-rated. Zoggy's an average player who gets mistaken for a good one. Ronaldo is a very good player who gets mistaken for the best player in the world.

:colo: