Kinnear Out

[Baggio]

Keegan's league record last season:

 

Played 16

Won 4

Drawn 5

Lost 7

Points 17

For 18

Against 26

 

 

Kinnear's league record so far this season:

 

Played 11

Won 3

Drawn 6

Lost 2

Points 15

For 17

Against 13

 

Not trying to prove anyone right or wrong btw. Just facts and figures so far and obviously the opposition was different etc. Quite interesting reading though.

 

 

Those results can be attributed to the approach both men took to the task, KK started working on pass and move and playing entertaining football, Kinnear has adopted a defensive and pragmatic approach hence the draws and fewere defeats. KK's side attempted to play football against Man Utd even when we were 4-0 down. The latter will yield better results short-term, the former will yield better results and better football long-term. If Kinnear adopted a more attacking philosophy and put an emphasis on playing football we'd be getting beat in the same manner KK's side were getting beat when he first took over.

 

You say it as if it's fact.

 

It is a fact.

 

Better football it will but there's no proof it will produce better results.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

Keegan's league record last season:

 

Played 16

Won 4

Drawn 5

Lost 7

Points 17

For 18

Against 26

 

 

Kinnear's league record so far this season:

 

Played 11

Won 3

Drawn 6

Lost 2

Points 15

For 17

Against 13

 

Not trying to prove anyone right or wrong btw. Just facts and figures so far and obviously the opposition was different etc. Quite interesting reading though.

 

 

Those results can be attributed to the approach both men took to the task, KK started working on pass and move and playing entertaining football, Kinnear has adopted a defensive and pragmatic approach hence the draws and fewere defeats. KK's side attempted to play football against Man Utd even when we were 4-0 down. The latter will yield better results short-term, the former will yield better results and better football long-term. If Kinnear adopted a more attacking philosophy and put an emphasis on playing football we'd be getting beat in the same manner KK's side were getting beat when he first took over.

 

You say it as if it's fact.

 

It is a fact.

 

Better football it will but there's no proof it will produce better results.

 

Eh, the history of the game is littered with teams succeeding who play good football and those that don't struggling. Its common sense. You can only get away with putting 10 men behind the ball for so long or sitting deep and hoping to grab a win. We are hard to beat but we find it hard to win. Of course the perfect solution is to find the right balance between defence and attack, but attack and playing football will always yield better results, especially long-term. Hull are where they are because they have went at teams and play football, for example.

[Baggio]

Keegan's league record last season:

 

Played 16

Won 4

Drawn 5

Lost 7

Points 17

For 18

Against 26

 

 

Kinnear's league record so far this season:

 

Played 11

Won 3

Drawn 6

Lost 2

Points 15

For 17

Against 13

 

Not trying to prove anyone right or wrong btw. Just facts and figures so far and obviously the opposition was different etc. Quite interesting reading though.

 

 

Those results can be attributed to the approach both men took to the task, KK started working on pass and move and playing entertaining football, Kinnear has adopted a defensive and pragmatic approach hence the draws and fewere defeats. KK's side attempted to play football against Man Utd even when we were 4-0 down. The latter will yield better results short-term, the former will yield better results and better football long-term. If Kinnear adopted a more attacking philosophy and put an emphasis on playing football we'd be getting beat in the same manner KK's side were getting beat when he first took over.

 

You say it as if it's fact.

 

It is a fact.

 

Better football it will but there's no proof it will produce better results.

 

Eh, the history of the game is littered with teams succeeding who play good football and those that don't struggling. Its common sense. You can only get away with putting 10 men behind the ball for so long or sitting deep and hoping to grab a win. We are hard to beat but we find it hard to win. Of course the perfect solution is to find the right balance between defence and attack, but attack and playing football will always yield better results, especially long-term. Hull are where they are because they have went at teams and play football, for example.

 

And those team have all of the best players too.

 

What history also tells you is that teams without all of the best players have been successful by maintaining a solid defensive unit which they work around, you mention Hull but what about West Brom? They play open football against everyone and are sat bottom of the league, are you suggesting they stick with it as they have less chance of being relegated than if they were to tighten up defensively?

[Guest Howaythetoon]

Keegan's league record last season:

 

Played 16

Won 4

Drawn 5

Lost 7

Points 17

For 18

Against 26

 

 

Kinnear's league record so far this season:

 

Played 11

Won 3

Drawn 6

Lost 2

Points 15

For 17

Against 13

 

Not trying to prove anyone right or wrong btw. Just facts and figures so far and obviously the opposition was different etc. Quite interesting reading though.

 

 

Those results can be attributed to the approach both men took to the task, KK started working on pass and move and playing entertaining football, Kinnear has adopted a defensive and pragmatic approach hence the draws and fewere defeats. KK's side attempted to play football against Man Utd even when we were 4-0 down. The latter will yield better results short-term, the former will yield better results and better football long-term. If Kinnear adopted a more attacking philosophy and put an emphasis on playing football we'd be getting beat in the same manner KK's side were getting beat when he first took over.

 

You say it as if it's fact.

 

It is a fact.

 

Better football it will but there's no proof it will produce better results.

 

Eh, the history of the game is littered with teams succeeding who play good football and those that don't struggling. Its common sense. You can only get away with putting 10 men behind the ball for so long or sitting deep and hoping to grab a win. We are hard to beat but we find it hard to win. Of course the perfect solution is to find the right balance between defence and attack, but attack and playing football will always yield better results, especially long-term. Hull are where they are because they have went at teams and play football, for example.

 

And those team have all of the best players too.

 

What history also tells you is that teams without all of the best players have been successful by maintaining a solid defensive unit which they work around, you mention Hull but what about West Brom? They play open football against everyone and are sat bottom of the league, are you suggesting they stick with it as they have less chance of being relegated than if they were to tighten up defensively?

 

West Brom's football is what got them promoted so you could say it has already yielded success, they'll go down but they'll come up again if they stick with their manager and keep playing the football they do. I agree the better footballing sides contain better players naturally but that's besides the point. Using the team we have we'd do better playing good football and attacking sides than trying to defend and playing for draws, especially long-term. I remind you that our football has produced some terrible performances which is where most of the stick Kinnear gets stems from, and not exactly the results which on paper look decent all things considered.

[Baggio]

Keegan's league record last season:

 

Played 16

Won 4

Drawn 5

Lost 7

Points 17

For 18

Against 26

 

 

Kinnear's league record so far this season:

 

Played 11

Won 3

Drawn 6

Lost 2

Points 15

For 17

Against 13

 

Not trying to prove anyone right or wrong btw. Just facts and figures so far and obviously the opposition was different etc. Quite interesting reading though.

 

 

Those results can be attributed to the approach both men took to the task, KK started working on pass and move and playing entertaining football, Kinnear has adopted a defensive and pragmatic approach hence the draws and fewere defeats. KK's side attempted to play football against Man Utd even when we were 4-0 down. The latter will yield better results short-term, the former will yield better results and better football long-term. If Kinnear adopted a more attacking philosophy and put an emphasis on playing football we'd be getting beat in the same manner KK's side were getting beat when he first took over.

 

You say it as if it's fact.

 

It is a fact.

 

Better football it will but there's no proof it will produce better results.

 

Eh, the history of the game is littered with teams succeeding who play good football and those that don't struggling. Its common sense. You can only get away with putting 10 men behind the ball for so long or sitting deep and hoping to grab a win. We are hard to beat but we find it hard to win. Of course the perfect solution is to find the right balance between defence and attack, but attack and playing football will always yield better results, especially long-term. Hull are where they are because they have went at teams and play football, for example.

 

And those team have all of the best players too.

 

What history also tells you is that teams without all of the best players have been successful by maintaining a solid defensive unit which they work around, you mention Hull but what about West Brom? They play open football against everyone and are sat bottom of the league, are you suggesting they stick with it as they have less chance of being relegated than if they were to tighten up defensively?

 

West Brom's football is what got them promoted so you could say it has already yielded success, they'll go down but they'll come up again if they stick with their manager and keep playing the football they do. I agree the better footballing sides contain better players naturally but that's besides the point. Using the team we have we'd do better playing good football and attacking sides than trying to defend and playing for draws, especially long-term. I remind you that our football has produced some terrible performances which is where most of the stick Kinnear gets stems from, and not exactly the results which on paper look decent all things considered.

 

Yet West Brom are getting battered every week so it's not a success for them is it, anyone can say the more attacking teams do better but if they contain all of the best players then that's going to be the case, if you want to make a team successful then you've got to be able to batter the teams worse than you but be able to grind out results with a solid defence and hard work against the teams better than you.

 

By playing an attacking game against the likes of Man Utd or Arsenal you're just going to get your arse handed to you unless you've got the players to match them.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

There are not 19 Man Utds, Arsenals and Chelseas in the league....

[Baggio]

There are not 19 Man Utds, Arsenals and Chelseas in the league....

 

I'm sure Tony Mowbray is glad to hear that.

[Optimistic Nut]

I'm still undecided, but he does seem to be like a less poncy, technical computer based version of Sam Allardyce. I'd say Kinnear's achievements with Wimbledon 10 years ago were equal to, if not better, than what Allardyce has achieved with Bolton.

 

Let's see where we stand after the Christmas & New Year period.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

There are not 19 Man Utds, Arsenals and Chelseas in the league....

 

Sadly they also get battered by everyone else.

[midds]

Keegan's league record last season:

 

Played 16

Won 4

Drawn 5

Lost 7

Points 17

For 18

Against 26

 

 

Kinnear's league record so far this season:

 

Played 11

Won 3

Drawn 6

Lost 2

Points 15

For 17

Against 13

 

Not trying to prove anyone right or wrong btw. Just facts and figures so far and obviously the opposition was different etc. Quite interesting reading though.

 

 

The facts don't give a true insight though.

 

I agree. I did acknowledge that the state of the team/club was different. The opposition was different too. Just a few facts and figures for the people who think Kinnear is doing a shit job.

 

People will obviously draw their own conclusions which is fair enough. 

[Optimistic Nut]

For a start, Keegan only had the wonderful regime signings of Guthrie, Coloccini, Gutierrez & Bassong for 3 of those games.

[merlin]

I think Kinnear is wrong about Enrique - thought he did well against Pompey and has had more decent games than bad ones . He also looks as if he does care about the team and doing well, and at his age, these are good pluses ; this is only his second season in the Prem, and I reckon he will improve.

[Lotus]

I think Kinnear is wrong about Enrique - thought he did well against Pompey and has had more decent games than bad ones . He also looks as if he does care about the team and doing well, and at his age, these are good pluses ; this is only his second season in the Prem, and I reckon he will improve.

 

I agree. Christ, i'm starting to sound like some Enrique fanboy!

I just think that he's the type of player that needs some investment of coaching and experience and he'll be a good player. He's decent enough at defending already.

I can't think of one REALISTIC LB in ther EPL i'd go for to replace him.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

And premier league teams won't be selling their first choice LBs in January.

[KaKa]

The thing is I would understand if we were looking to buy someone to compete with him for the position, I mean that's fair enough.

 

But the idea of selling him is a stupid one. He's only young and has very good potential.

[TRon]

The thing is I would understand if we were looking to buy someone to compete with him for the position, I mean that's fair enough.

 

But the idea of selling him is a stupid one. He's only young and has very good potential.

 

I have a genuine fear we'll sell Enrique, buy someone like Leighton Baines and then find out that while he's the bee's knees going forwards, he can't actually defend. So yes, by all means by a left back but don't ditch Jose unless we are getting the real deal.

[ElDiablo]

Is it not the case that Keegan took over a team that was absolutely s*** with no confidence whatsoever? I'm not saying two defeats in eleven isn't impressive, but the two situations are not completely comparable.

 

What was different when Kinnear took over?

 

Not a snappy question, as I'm not particularly in the know

 

We weren't as shit.

 

You're joking aren't you? We were absolutely terrible in the games under Hughton, the Blackburn game and Tottenham game in particular were pitiful displays. We were playing with no confidence whatsoever. The four performances under hughton were worse than the majority of games under Allarydyce imo rivalled only by the 3-0 at home to Liverpool.

[Tooj]

Is it not the case that Keegan took over a team that was absolutely s*** with no confidence whatsoever? I'm not saying two defeats in eleven isn't impressive, but the two situations are not completely comparable.

 

What was different when Kinnear took over?

 

Not a snappy question, as I'm not particularly in the know

 

We weren't as shit.

 

You're joking aren't you? We were absolutely terrible in the games under Hughton, the Blackburn game and Tottenham game in particular were pitiful displays. We were playing with no confidence whatsoever. The four performances under hughton were worse than the majority of games under Allarydyce imo rivalled only by the 3-0 at home to Liverpool.

 

We'd been in a rut though for ages under Big Sam, and plus there wasn't all of the external factors such as now.

[Guest Geordiecunny]

6 games unbeaten. Anyone fickle enough to have jumped off this ship? I was never on it but just wondering if anyone's rethought it?

 

He'll be here all season, and I think he'll keep us up. So long as that remains the case I'm behind him.

[M4]

6 games unbeaten. Anyone fickle enough to have jumped off this ship? I was never on it but just wondering if anyone's rethought it?

 

He deserved slapping for some decisions in previous matches... but the point is he appears to have learned, and doing what we were hoping for all along:

 

Getting Zog out there, pairing Bassong and Colo, Martins and Owen up front last week... The great news about all this to me is that he seems to have learned from past fuck ups.

[Guest Geordiecunny]

6 games unbeaten. Anyone fickle enough to have jumped off this ship? I was never on it but just wondering if anyone's rethought it?

 

He deserved slapping for some decisions in previous matches... but the point is he appears to have learned, and doing what we were hoping for all along:

 

Getting Zog out there, pairing Bassong and Colo, Martins and Owen up front last week... The great news about all this to me is that he seems to have learned from past fuck ups.

Short answer, yes.

[ElDiablo]

Massive kneejerk this thread. You'd have thought we were in West Brom's position reading some of the reactions in here.

[M4]

Still a long way to go. Whether he gives Shola a new contract or not will be the decisive factor imho 

[Yorkie]

I still think that, as a person, he's generally a bellend. As far as on the pitch goes though, dare i say he's turning the corner a tad? That is two very shrewd tactical performances in a row and it's got us two very, very good wins. Fingers crossed the Stoke abomination was the last of the insanity.

[oldtype]

The fundamental reasons behind this thread still hasn't changed. I still don't think Kinnear is a good manager and I think the vast majority here would agree that he's not somebody we want long term.

 

But I can't be bothered to talk about anything negative today, so fuck it. Howay the lads.