Cronky Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 He's being marked out of games for Liverpool from what I've seen. Blaming "lack of service" would be the easy thing to do, but to me it looks like his positioning/anticipation just isn't "right". He doesn't seem to be able to get on the end of a cracking delivery that's played in between the defense and goalkeeper because he's always half a yard behind the defender and doesn't have what it takes to get ahead. Someone like Shearer or Sir Les would be on the defender's shoulder already making their diagonal movement before the winger starts the crossing motion, sometimes applying a small burst to get on the end of the ball, whereas Carroll just seems to stand there jogging in line with the defender, waiting until it's too late. Maybe he can be coached into making and timing those runs perfectly, and God help defenders when he does (hence the price tag), but that's not a guarantee by any means. We've seen with Shola for example that you can't coach "intelligence" into a player. In a team like Liverpool with players capable of providing quality service, he's a bit of a waste at present. That's a good point. I think the difficulty with both Shola and Carroll isn't so much a lack of intelligence as a lack of pace, by which I mean that initial burst of acceleration that can get you ahead of your marker on to the ball played through. I think it's down to their physiques, and it's a weakness that won't completely go away. These leggy players can move fast in full flight, but they take a while to get going. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colocho Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 I don't think Carroll is all that special, he hit a purple patch, had a good/excellent 6 months. Whether he can replicate that form and be a superstar in the future is still debatable. If we had replaced him with a decent striker, he would be soon forgotten. But since we didn't people, are not pining for him to come back. I won't have him back unless its below 10M. For above 10M, we can find better strikers who have proven themselves beyond 6 months. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rainforest Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 for 10 mill we cannot find better strikers. Pointless even suggesting that. 16-17-18 maybe. Quality doesnt come cheap. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punk77 Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 He's being marked out of games for Liverpool from what I've seen. Blaming "lack of service" would be the easy thing to do, but to me it looks like his positioning/anticipation just isn't "right". He doesn't seem to be able to get on the end of a cracking delivery that's played in between the defense and goalkeeper because he's always half a yard behind the defender and doesn't have what it takes to get ahead. Someone like Shearer or Sir Les would be on the defender's shoulder already making their diagonal movement before the winger starts the crossing motion, sometimes applying a small burst to get on the end of the ball, whereas Carroll just seems to stand there jogging in line with the defender, waiting until it's too late. Maybe he can be coached into making and timing those runs perfectly, and God help defenders when he does (hence the price tag), but that's not a guarantee by any means. We've seen with Shola for example that you can't coach "intelligence" into a player. In a team like Liverpool with players capable of providing quality service, he's a bit of a waste at present. Good point. But it also comes down to Liverpool being able to use him correctly. In the LFC match against Valrenga, he was almost invisible the whole match, but the few times Downing was able to run down to the line and hit a cross from the area around the corner flag, Carroll became dangerous immediately. In fact, he scored one goal, and had another glorious chance which he should have converted. He was shit the rest of the game, but nobody would have noticed if he had bagged two goals and LFC had won. LFC had exactly the same predicament when they bought Morientes. He was fantastic in Monaco because he was at that time served by two of the best wing men in Europe. But as I predicted, he became a dud in LFC since they had no wide play at all. He did almost not receive crossers inside the box. And the same goes for Carroll too. Carroll will only be a success if Downing stops drifitng inside, and LFC purchase Downing type of player to use on the right. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 I don't think Carroll is all that special, he hit a purple patch, had a good/excellent 6 months. Whether he can replicate that form and be a superstar in the future is still debatable. If we had replaced him with a decent striker, he would be soon forgotten. But since we didn't people, are not pining for him to come back. I won't have him back unless its below 10M. For above 10M, we can find better strikers who have proven themselves beyond 6 months. We replaced him with Demba Ba, he's decent? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinmk Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 Some funny things being said in this thread. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rainforest Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 Like what Colin. Get down from the fence. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinmk Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 Like what Colin. Get down from the fence. Like comparing his play with Shola's and saying that they wouldn't take him back for more than 10m. Silly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rainforest Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 I hear that man Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawK Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 As I said before anything equal to or less than 35m. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtype Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 I doubt we'd ever take the chance to bring him back even for something like 10 mil. Mike Ashley seems like the kind of person who holds grudges. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 I doubt we'd ever take the chance to bring him back even for something like 10 mil. Mike Ashley seems like the kind of person who holds grudges. i'm not sure he should be holding a grudge against Andy Carroll, given that he's the best thing that happened to him in 5 years running the club Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consortium of one Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 I'd take Carroll back. We'd have to change the way we played a bit though. Probably what I'd do is switch Jonas back to the right side and start Marveaux on the left. Let Marveaux play as a classic winger and cross. Jonas can play much as he does now, perhaps look to cross a bit more since he's on the right. HBA could be devastating playing off of Carroll. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest koye Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 I'd take Carroll back. We'd have to change the way we played a bit though. Probably what I'd do is switch Jonas back to the right side and start Marveaux on the left. Let Marveaux play as a classic winger and cross. Jonas can play much as he does now, perhaps look to cross a bit more since he's on the right. HBA could be devastating playing off of Carroll. This. He´s also a big threat on set pieces. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpal78 Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 I don't think Carroll is all that special, he hit a purple patch, had a good/excellent 6 months. Whether he can replicate that form and be a superstar in the future is still debatable. If we had replaced him with a decent striker, he would be soon forgotten. But since we didn't people, are not pining for him to come back. I won't have him back unless its below 10M. For above 10M, we can find better strikers who have proven themselves beyond 6 months. We replaced him with Demba Ba, he's decent? Hard to say, I don't know much about Demba Ba and have not seen enough of him. But my point stands, if he shows the form that Carroll was on, then Carroll would be irrelevant except for moaners who just want to moan for the sake of it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 I don't think Carroll is all that special, he hit a purple patch, had a good/excellent 6 months. Whether he can replicate that form and be a superstar in the future is still debatable. If we had replaced him with a decent striker, he would be soon forgotten. But since we didn't people, are not pining for him to come back. I won't have him back unless its below 10M. For above 10M, we can find better strikers who have proven themselves beyond 6 months. We replaced him with Demba Ba, he's decent? Hard to say, I don't know much about Demba Ba and have not seen enough of him. But my point stands, if he shows the form that Carroll was on, then Carroll would be irrelevant except for moaners who just want to moan for the sake of it. you point stands based on a presumption that can't be proved for a while, ok. irrelevant ffs he's the best striker we've had in ages, we need a striker, we sold him. it's no wonder he's being discussed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpal78 Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 I don't think Carroll is all that special, he hit a purple patch, had a good/excellent 6 months. Whether he can replicate that form and be a superstar in the future is still debatable. If we had replaced him with a decent striker, he would be soon forgotten. But since we didn't people, are not pining for him to come back. I won't have him back unless its below 10M. For above 10M, we can find better strikers who have proven themselves beyond 6 months. We replaced him with Demba Ba, he's decent? Hard to say, I don't know much about Demba Ba and have not seen enough of him. But my point stands, if he shows the form that Carroll was on, then Carroll would be irrelevant except for moaners who just want to moan for the sake of it. you point stands based on a presumption that can't be proved for a while, ok. irrelevant ffs he's the best striker we've had in ages, we need a striker, we sold him. it's no wonder he's being discussed. Yes because my point is based on a hypothesis that could go either way. It's called prediction and forecasting. If x happens then y will be the likely consequence. I take it you know little about maths, statistics, economic analysis or any discipline that requires forecasting or simply looking ahead He's the best striker we've had since Shearer who is at least two notches above him...that's not "ages" ago by my book...but go on you can exaggerate all you want. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 how do you ignore people? i'm gonna get banned Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Vinkent Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 What surprises me is that Capello doesn't seem to want to build the England squad around him and Rooney. I'd reckon if they got a good partnership going they'd be damn difficult to stop. We've put up with Heskey for so many years so why not try it Fabio??? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatwax Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 What surprises me is that Capello doesn't seem to want to build the England squad around him and Rooney. I'd reckon if they got a good partnership going they'd be damn difficult to stop. We've put up with Heskey for so many years so why not try it Fabio??? It's his boozing & 'lifestyle' that's supposedly keeping him out of the England side currently... according to Capello. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikri Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 What surprises me is that Capello doesn't seem to want to build the England squad around him and Rooney. I'd reckon if they got a good partnership going they'd be damn difficult to stop. We've put up with Heskey for so many years so why not try it Fabio??? England should probably stop trying to build teams around individuals since they always seem to get injured around the time of major competitions leading to us rushing unfit players back to the team then wondering why they didn't perform as expected. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEMTEX Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 + he's a cunt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEMTEX Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 actually, scrap that, just remembered this is England we're talking about. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 how do you ignore people? i'm gonna get banned Add them to your PM block list. Good decision btw. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 how do you ignore people? i'm gonna get banned Add them to your PM block list. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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