Mick Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 For me, there are 2 types of versatile players. There are ones that are genuinely natural footballers who's influence doesn't change that much if they're moved about to different areas on the pitch. Their intelligence in terms of the game and ability on and with the ball makes it easy for them to play different positions. These players genuinely don't move around the pitch but if you were to do it they'd do a pretty good job. For an extreme example I reckon Rooney could make a pretty good shift of any position on the pitch. Secondly there are people like James Perch, and afaic Ryan Taylor is of the same ilk. Players who get this tag as being versatile utility men because they're simply not good enough to hold down one position. These players are simply not very good wherever they play, but get by on 'doing a job' and 'filling in' when generally they're not performing any of the functions that position requires and actually are a hindrance to the general shape of a side. When Ryan Taylor plays left back, he needs another left back infront of him because in reality he can't actually defend. When he plays RM he drifts centrally and offers very little to the team whatsoever in terms of general play. I'm sorry but I simply don't rate him at all. He can't dribble, is uncomfortable in possession, doesn't have any real vision or intelligence on the pitch, is shocking positionally, can't defend and has pretty rubbish physical attributes. Apart from his ball-striking abilities and general commitment to the cause he is a nothing footballer. I feel harsh putting it like that, because he really is a nice guy and gives his all for the club but that's just how I see it. I'd rather have a squad of players who are all competent physically and technically and then you wouldn't need people like Ryan Taylor to 'do a job' in a position. You would never see Arsenal or Tottenham playing somebody like Ryan Taylor because their game is built around possession of the ball, every player being comfortable with it at their feet and being able to up the tempo of their game when they want to. Spot on, I would add that we need the 2nd type for now though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Brynn Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 I have no problems with critisism hoyed at Ben Arfa. He is inconsistent at times, greedy, wants to do things himself. He is a bit rusty, occationally runs into trouble and more than once does he take on one too many. These are all valid points and he should try to improve on these. But these are typical challenges when it comes to gifted players, they know they are good. They do the opposite of treat the ball like a grenade. They treat it like a extra large kebab outside the pub 4 A.M in the morning, clinging to it, caressing it - ( before letting it go at the nearest car ). Thus, they need coaching and input, positive input. Moulding. Without any comparison, Ronaldo was faced with the same challenges coming to Manchester United. Too greedy, holding on too long to the ball etc... Ferguson didnt drop him, because he saw a raw talent in there. He played him, and eventually things panned out rather well. Granted, Ben Arfa is older than what ronaldo was, but Sessegnon is again 3 years older than Ben arfa and just recently came into his stride after 1.5 seasons. And according to french people ITK, he has about one-tenth of the talent Ben arfa possesses, and still manages to be one of the better Attacking midfielders in the league. Regardless of whether you agree with these reflections or not, fact is he is competing against Obertan and Ryan Taylor, and all his weak points are nitpicking when compared to his two rivals - who are shit at just about everything! You would be mental not to start him, he is infinetly more talented. I honestly believe Ben Arfa is one season away from performing on a similar level or better to the likes of Nani, Young, Valencia and equivalent top wingers. We are not exploring on this possibility because we prefer Ryan Taylor and Obertan to put in a shift? The cowardice is beyond comprehension. The following might be seen as a strange angle, but I am actually surprised Mike Ashley havent instructed Pardew to start Ben Arfa (Abramovich-style), because surely there is a 20 million pound winger to be sold in there somewhere.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foluwashola Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Decent news. Despite what some say, he can play in numerous positions reasonably competently and gives 100%. As nice as it would be, we're not at the stage yet where we can name 18 technical superstars on the team sheet. Players like Raylor are still needed. As others have said, if he isn't starting consistently next season there isn't a problem with this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eliassenfredrik Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 There is a huge problem right this moment, mainly him starting consistently ahead of a highly superior player, being called "a fantastic player" by the manager himself. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Brynn Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Decent news. Despite what some say, he can play in numerous positions reasonably competently and gives 100% No, he really cant and special needs kids also gives 100%, should we therefore start them also? Giving a 100% is a wonderfully fickle expression As nice as it would be, we're not at the stage yet where we can name 18 technical superstars on the team sheet. Yes, because the choice is ether superstars, or Ryan Taylors. There is nothing inbetween the two Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ameritoon Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Pleased enough with this, he deserved it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 What really vexes me is just how much, or indeed how little, people have come to expect of either Ryan Taylor or Gabriel Obertan every time they play. Their expected performance has been lowered to the point of actually complimenting them for any small thing they do right when they are on the pitch, be it the odd pass forward or a successful interception. Anything a pub fotballer let alone anyone collecting a professional paycheck should get right. Couple it with a sneaky and undeserved win and no doubt they have "Put in a shift" and should without doubt start the next game according to pardew and a few odd blokes on here. Fast forward to the odd occation where Ben Arfa gets a start, and its a whole different ballgame, people expect world class involvement or gtfo. Go past 3 players and into the box but then gets tackled and gets us a corner, its all " too greedy, can see why he cant hold down a spot" etc. Its baffling. In fact, Im quite confident Hatem would have no issues duplicating a typical Obertan/raylor performance which consists of a few backpasses, the odd interception and otherwise just pass sideways and hoofing. Actually, I`d wager he could do it listening to his Ipod, eating a snickers and flirting with french groupies on level 7 while keeping half an eye with the ball in order to play it backwards and sideways. But he doesnt. Because that is not the sign of a great winger, let alone fotballer. He tries to create, which unavoidingly also carries with it the risk of interception and a counter. for this he is dropped. It makes me clinically depressed. great post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eliassenfredrik Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 The "giving 100 %" shit is what carries the fat kids and the ones without any skills whatsoever in any sport, and gets them decent grades in gym at schools over here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smal Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Can't say I'm overly pleased he'll be here that long, really. Decent squad player for now and next season maybe, but I'd have rather have just let his contract run out next year and see where we're at then. I know he can play multiple positions, but by the end of next season you'd like to think we'll be in a position where we can have better quality squad players and won't really need him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spudil Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Brynn Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
toonpete1892 Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 I'm happy to give him 2 years. Ok he may not be a brilliant footballer but a brilliant footballer will want to play each weekend and/or ask for a higher wage. I doubt Raylor will be either. A sensible squad player who will sit on the bench and fill gaps when needed. Don't get me wrong, he is nowhere near Ben Arfa and he shouldn't start ahead of him, but where would our season be without his initial cover at left back? One of the biggest reasons why Santon has been able to slide in without problem was our league position and confidence that came with it - when he messed up as he learnt the game, our back 4 and Jonas helped out. Without the good start, I doubt this would have happened as the focus would have been getting forward and scoring. I'd rather have an average but experienced Raylor ready to come on than a shit scared teenager who will drop his arse the first time pressure is put on him. Putting football to one side, he seems to be a very popular squad member who has enough experience to influence, lead and guide the new/young lads without being a twat about it, see Alan Smith for example. He also won't speak out if he doesn't feature for weeks at a time. I'm not going to say he is 'happy to sit on the bench' but he himself will know his role lies in the squad rather than first 11. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbandit Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Fact of the matter is Scott Parker gives 100%, Craig Bellamy gives 100%, Gerrard gives 100%, Jonas gives 100%. I wouldn't give that title to just anybody Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Crooks Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 I'm happy to give him 2 years. Ok he may not be a brilliant footballer but a brilliant footballer will want to play each weekend and/or ask for a higher wage. I doubt Raylor will be either. A sensible squad player who will sit on the bench and fill gaps when needed. Don't get me wrong, he is nowhere near Ben Arfa and he shouldn't start ahead of him, but where would our season be without his initial cover at left back? One of the biggest reasons why Santon has been able to slide in without problem was our league position and confidence that came with it - when he messed up as he learnt the game, our back 4 and Jonas helped out. Without the good start, I doubt this would have happened as the focus would have been getting forward and scoring. I'd rather have an average but experienced Raylor ready to come on than a shit scared teenager who will drop his arse the first time pressure is put on him. Putting football to one side, he seems to be a very popular squad member who has enough experience to influence, lead and guide the new/young lads without being a twat about it, see Alan Smith for example. He also won't speak out if he doesn't feature for weeks at a time. I'm not going to say he is 'happy to sit on the bench' but he himself will know his role lies in the squad rather than first 11. Mostly tripe, sorry. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
toonpete1892 Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 I'm happy to give him 2 years. Ok he may not be a brilliant footballer but a brilliant footballer will want to play each weekend and/or ask for a higher wage. I doubt Raylor will be either. A sensible squad player who will sit on the bench and fill gaps when needed. Don't get me wrong, he is nowhere near Ben Arfa and he shouldn't start ahead of him, but where would our season be without his initial cover at left back? One of the biggest reasons why Santon has been able to slide in without problem was our league position and confidence that came with it - when he messed up as he learnt the game, our back 4 and Jonas helped out. Without the good start, I doubt this would have happened as the focus would have been getting forward and scoring. I'd rather have an average but experienced Raylor ready to come on than a shit scared teenager who will drop his arse the first time pressure is put on him. Putting football to one side, he seems to be a very popular squad member who has enough experience to influence, lead and guide the new/young lads without being a twat about it, see Alan Smith for example. He also won't speak out if he doesn't feature for weeks at a time. I'm not going to say he is 'happy to sit on the bench' but he himself will know his role lies in the squad rather than first 11. Mostly tripe, sorry. What? The fact he isn't a brilliant footballer, the fact he did a good job as cover at LB at the start of the season, the fact Ben Arfa is better and should start before him, the fact Alan Smith ultimately cost the club more by sitting on the bench, or the fact he can't realistically see himself being in the first 11 each week? Tripe response, sorry. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 He definitely didn't do a good job at LB, he was terrible. Jonas is still recovering from the amount of defending he was doing during that time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtype Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 He's been directly responsible for winning us something like 10+ points this season. Of course he deserves a new contract. (Yeah, yeah "cost us more than that with his shitty general play etc. etc.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Brynn Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 He's been directly responsible for winning us something like 10+ points this season. Of course he deserves a new contract. (Yeah, yeah "cost us more than that with his shitty general play etc. etc.) If you offered premier league managers 3 goals a season and very little else and most probably quite a few points dropped as a direct or indirect result of starting them, well, I honestly doubt many would have snapped your hand off. I cant advocate starting a player solely on a freekick every 7 or 8 games. Sorry. There has to be other contributing qualities present as well. Sadly, with Ryan Taylor, there isnt. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Good squad player and great option from the bench. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Brynn Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Good squad player and great option from the bench. really? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Crooks Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 I apologise wasn't the most constructive. I don't believe that he helped with the blooding in with Santon. He has enough experience without gaining influence from the likes of Ryan Taylor. He's held us back with regard to that example. I don't know what qualities a 'sensible' squad player possesses but it doesn'tsound very inspiring. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Good squad player and great option from the bench. really? Of course, his set piece ability and general delivery is very useful if you're pushing forward in the later stages of a game, especially since you can put him in at full back as an attacking option. Gets in the box too, used to come on in the Championship and notch late on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 He's proved himself a decent back-up player this season who has shown he can contribute in a positive way when called upon and therefore deserves a new deal. However, I'd rather we tried to phase out players like him in favour of (quality) youth who can take his place in the squad so I personally wouldn't be offering him or players like him new deals. Fair play to him though and I'm not exactly unhappy he has signed a new deal as he's a decent enough back up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Brynn Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Good squad player and great option from the bench. really? Of course, his set piece ability and general delivery is very useful if you're pushing forward in the later stages of a game, especially since you can put him in at full back as an attacking option. Gets in the box too, used to come on in the Championship and notch late on. the words great and R T in the same sentence just sets my bells off. He cant dribble or go past players, very poor vision and positioning, in addition to poor pace. Most players outrun him with ease. Imho, subbing him in is just as likely to cause goals conceded as creating them. Additionally what he offers is only worthwhile if we are to play the longball-game, something Im not overly fan of in the first place.. Funny how hoying on Ben Arfa on the wing carries such a huge risk of conceding more goals, whereas Ryan Taylor as fullback, no f***ing problem. ( That last one isnt aimed at you btw) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David28 Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 All those players getting new contracts. If only Barton had one more year on his contract than he would have been among them now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Think you're picking the wrong fight there, Brynn. I'm sure Wullie is right behind you re your posts/thoughts on Ben Arfa. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now