U23s & Academy

[Disco]

Such a good youth set up it didn't even get Category 1.

[Guest bimpy474]

Is that right our club only has 6 outfield coaches(including managers) for the entire playing staff? Pardew, Stone, Carver, Watson, Beardsley & Joyce? 

 

 

Kevin Richardson as well i think.

[Smal]

Last young player we developed was Carroll, and unsurprisingly that wasn't under Pardew.

[JH]

Shearer? OH WAIT WE LET HIM GO.

[LucaAltieri]

Last young player we developed was Carroll, and unsurprisingly that wasn't under Pardew.

 

You make that sound like an eternity. He had his breakthrough 3 seasons ago. Have the other academies of Premier League teams been churning out star players since then?

 

Not every player on our books is going to make it. In fact, if 10% of them did we'd have the best youth system in the country.

 

How many other academies have turned out an England international striker in the last 3 or 4 years?

[LucaAltieri]

I don't like to make a habit of defending Pardew but FFS. Some of the guff on here is ridiculous at times.

[Cajun]

Last young player we developed was Carroll, and unsurprisingly that wasn't under Pardew.

 

You make that sound like an eternity. He had his breakthrough 3 seasons ago. Have the other academies of Premier League teams been churning out star players since then?

 

Not every player on our books is going to make it. In fact, if 10% of them did we'd have the best youth system in the country.

 

How many other academies have turned out an England international striker in the last 3 or 4 years?

 

You're limiting it to one position, how many forwards will the England squad include? How many current England players will come from the clubs they started out at?

 

Much more telling the amount of youth players coming through squads who make it as first team regulars rather than limiting the parameters so much.

 

 

[Mick]

Last young player we developed was Carroll, and unsurprisingly that wasn't under Pardew.

 

You make that sound like an eternity. He had his breakthrough 3 seasons ago. Have the other academies of Premier League teams been churning out star players since then?

 

Not every player on our books is going to make it. In fact, if 10% of them did we'd have the best youth system in the country.

 

How many other academies have turned out an England international striker in the last 3 or 4 years?

 

Do only English international strikers count?

[LucaAltieri]

Last young player we developed was Carroll, and unsurprisingly that wasn't under Pardew.

 

You make that sound like an eternity. He had his breakthrough 3 seasons ago. Have the other academies of Premier League teams been churning out star players since then?

 

Not every player on our books is going to make it. In fact, if 10% of them did we'd have the best youth system in the country.

 

How many other academies have turned out an England international striker in the last 3 or 4 years?

 

You're limiting it to one position, how many forwards will the England squad include? How many current England players will come from the clubs they started out at?

 

Much more telling the amount of youth players coming through squads who make it as first team regulars rather than limiting the parameters so much.

 

I limit it simply as a testament to the difficulty of the achievement.

 

Even extending to other positions and other nationalities the premise still holds true. No other clubs are turning out quality players at a much different rate. Even teams like Arsenal who have a really good track record of developing young players don't turn out many first teamers over the average 3 years, let alone internationally capped players. Man United, who are thought to have one of the best youth setups in world, don't turn out first teamers or internationals at a much better rate.

[LucaAltieri]

Last young player we developed was Carroll, and unsurprisingly that wasn't under Pardew.

 

You make that sound like an eternity. He had his breakthrough 3 seasons ago. Have the other academies of Premier League teams been churning out star players since then?

 

Not every player on our books is going to make it. In fact, if 10% of them did we'd have the best youth system in the country.

 

How many other academies have turned out an England international striker in the last 3 or 4 years?

 

Do only English international strikers count?

 

Not at all, but it's not fair to compare the achievements of turning out an England striker to producing a Bolivian under 21s left-back or whatever.

[Smal]

Last young player we developed was Carroll, and unsurprisingly that wasn't under Pardew.

 

You make that sound like an eternity. He had his breakthrough 3 seasons ago. Have the other academies of Premier League teams been churning out star players since then?

 

Not every player on our books is going to make it. In fact, if 10% of them did we'd have the best youth system in the country.

 

How many other academies have turned out an England international striker in the last 3 or 4 years?

 

That's not really the point I'm making. None of our young players have developed whatsoever under Pardew, including the ones we've bought like Santon, Bigirimana etc.

[Mick]

 

 

Not at all, but it's not fair to compare the achievements of turning out an England striker to producing a Bolivian under 21s left-back or whatever.

 

That's far too selective because things can go right by chance and a one off proves nothing.

[LucaAltieri]

Last young player we developed was Carroll, and unsurprisingly that wasn't under Pardew.

 

You make that sound like an eternity. He had his breakthrough 3 seasons ago. Have the other academies of Premier League teams been churning out star players since then?

 

Not every player on our books is going to make it. In fact, if 10% of them did we'd have the best youth system in the country.

 

How many other academies have turned out an England international striker in the last 3 or 4 years?

 

That's not really the point I'm making. None of our young players have developed whatsoever under Pardew, including the ones we've bought like Santon, Bigirimana etc.

 

Sammy Ameobi is a better player than he was before Pardew. Ben Arfa improved in several areas under Pardew (albeit not consistently). Santon was shaky as fuck at times but has settled down a bit under Pardew. Debuchy had a hard time when arrived but is now playing better. Cayabe, while he was here, started strong, had a dip in form, and recovered to be our best player. Colo has had dips in form only to become a stronger player while working under Pardew. Bigi was given first team opportunities here. Very few other teams hand over all their cup (and European) games to their second string the way we do. Pardew gets criticised for it, but it helps the young players get experience. If Bigi hasn't kicked on as a result of it, or requested he go out on loan to get more regular first team experience, then the fault is Bigi's.

 

Or perhaps he just wasn't that great to begin with.

[Disco]

Last young player we developed was Carroll, and unsurprisingly that wasn't under Pardew.

 

You make that sound like an eternity. He had his breakthrough 3 seasons ago. Have the other academies of Premier League teams been churning out star players since then?

 

Not every player on our books is going to make it. In fact, if 10% of them did we'd have the best youth system in the country.

 

How many other academies have turned out an England international striker in the last 3 or 4 years?

 

That's not really the point I'm making. None of our young players have developed whatsoever under Pardew, including the ones we've bought like Santon, Bigirimana etc.

 

Sammy Ameobi is a better player than he was before Pardew. Ben Arfa improved in several areas under Pardew (albeit not consistently). Santon was shaky as fuck at times but has settled down a bit under Pardew. Debuchy had a hard time when arrived but is now playing better. Cayabe, while he was here, started strong, had a dip in form, and recovered to be our best player. Colo has had dips in form only to become a stronger player while working under Pardew. Bigi was given first team opportunities here. Very few other teams hand over all their cup (and European) games to their second string the way we do. Pardew gets criticised for it, but it helps the young players get experience. If Bigi hasn't kicked on as a result of it, or requested he go out on loan to get more regular first team experience, then the fault is Bigi's.

 

[KaKa]

So, what exactly is Southampton's secret, and why are all other clubs not emulating them?

[LucaAltieri]

So, what exactly is Southampton's secret, and why are all other clubs not emulating them?

 

Relegation, lack of money, necessity of playing their kids.

 

We have many of those same things going on. Very few teams offer kids the same first team opportunities we do. Whether or not they take them is down to them.

[KaKa]

So, what exactly is Southampton's secret, and why are all other clubs not emulating them?

 

Relegation, lack of money, necessity of playing their kids.

 

We have many of those same things going on. Very few teams offer kids the same first team opportunities we do. Whether or not they take them is down to them.

 

I do think generally, that English managers don't trust kids.

 

You'll never win a game with 11 James Miners etc etc.

[Mick]

 

 

Relegation, lack of money, necessity of playing their kids.

 

We have many of those same things going on. Very few teams offer kids the same first team opportunities we do. Whether or not they take them is down to them.

 

So, to cut a long story short, our academy is great but our kids are shite.

[LucaAltieri]

So, what exactly is Southampton's secret, and why are all other clubs not emulating them?

 

Relegation, lack of money, necessity of playing their kids.

 

We have many of those same things going on. Very few teams offer kids the same first team opportunities we do. Whether or not they take them is down to them.

 

I do think generally, that English managers don't trust kids.

 

You'll never win a game with 11 James Miners etc etc.

 

Too an extent. It's a high pressure job where 3 losses in a row and people are calling for you to be sacked. It's understandable to a point.

 

That's part of the reason I like MLS. The salary caps and limited "roster" space mean that kids are necessary for building a squad. My Seattle Sounders had DeAndre Yedlin break through last year and are very likely to see Dylan Remick and Eriq Zavaleta this year. There's just no other option for most teams.

 

You get the same thing happen when clubs like Southampton are stuck for cash, or like us: keeping the squad thin. I think we're more likely than other clubs to start producing good young players for that very reason. It just doesn't happen overnight.

 

There are also other factors: as a football coach myself I know there's only so much you can actually do to help players. You can give them all the instruction in the world but if they're not prepared to push themselves then they're not going to get any better. You can't kick the ball for them.

 

As anyone who has ever had a job knows; 90% of the people employed there are just happy turning up and doing the same thing they've always done. Comfortably phoning it in. It's no different in football.

 

Andy Carroll is a great example. When his first team opportunity came up he really knuckled down and you could see him getting better and better. Then he signs his big money contract, thinks he's made it, and he stagnates.

 

There are a lot of variables at play. But the one thing I can say with complete confidence is: remarks like "We're never going to have any good youth players under Pardew" and shit like that are nonsense for many reasons:

 

1) We do give players opportunities to prove themselves. We actively want them to step up because we're at the bare bones most of the time.

2) He's not even the fucking youth coach.

3) Motivation is the single biggest factor in developing a player, and he's shown himself to be reasonably good at managing players (Cabaye, Colo, etc).

4) He has come out publicly and urged these guys to step it up. Whether they do or not is on their own backs. He can't kick the ball for them either.

[leffe186]

So, what exactly is Southampton's secret, and why are all other clubs not emulating them?

 

Relegation, lack of money, necessity of playing their kids.

 

We have many of those same things going on. Very few teams offer kids the same first team opportunities we do. Whether or not they take them is down to them.

 

I do think generally, that English managers don't trust kids.

 

You'll never win a game with 11 James Miners etc etc.

 

I don't know if that's necessarily true. AVB was noticeably less trusting of our youngsters than, say, Tim Sherwood. Much of the reason will be circumstantial - with the ludicrous attrition rate in Premier League managers it's no wonder they are reluctant to take many chances. Southampton are an example of a club that has made a clear decision to focus on their youth program because of their circumstances. They need the buy-in from everyone involved, and the manager is key. One reason (among many) suggested for AVB's demise is that he was unwilling to give youth products as much game time as Levy expected. We made our clear decision to focus on youth when Jol came in, and our squad was almost completely changed overnight, and AVB was seen as failing to back that policy.

[Kaizero]

So, what exactly is Southampton's secret, and why are all other clubs not emulating them?

 

Relegation, lack of money, necessity of playing their kids.

 

We have many of those same things going on. Very few teams offer kids the same first team opportunities we do. Whether or not they take them is down to them.

 

I do think generally, that English managers don't trust kids.

 

You'll never win a game with 11 James Miners etc etc.

 

Too an extent. It's a high pressure job where 3 losses in a row and people are calling for you to be sacked. It's understandable to a point.

 

That's part of the reason I like MLS. The salary caps and limited "roster" space mean that kids are necessary for building a squad. My Seattle Sounders had DeAndre Yedlin break through last year and are very likely to see Dylan Remick and Eriq Zavaleta this year. There's just no other option for most teams.

 

You get the same thing happen when clubs like Southampton are stuck for cash, or like us: keeping the squad thin. I think we're more likely than other clubs to start producing good young players for that very reason. It just doesn't happen overnight.

 

There are also other factors: as a football coach myself I know there's only so much you can actually do to help players. You can give them all the instruction in the world but if they're not prepared to push themselves then they're not going to get any better. You can't kick the ball for them.

 

As anyone who has ever had a job knows; 90% of the people employed there are just happy turning up and doing the same thing they've always done. Comfortably phoning it in. It's no different in football.

 

Andy Carroll is a great example. When his first team opportunity came up he really knuckled down and you could see him getting better and better. Then he signs his big money contract, thinks he's made it, and he stagnates.

 

There are a lot of variables at play. But the one thing I can say with complete confidence is: remarks like "We're never going to have any good youth players under Pardew" and shit like that are nonsense for many reasons:

 

1) We do give players opportunities to prove themselves. We actively want them to step up because we're at the bare bones most of the time.

2) He's not even the fucking youth coach.

3) Motivation is the single biggest factor in developing a player, and he's shown himself to be reasonably good at managing players (Cabaye, Colo, etc).

4) He has come out publicly and urged these guys to step it up. Whether they do or not is on their own backs. He can't kick the ball for them either.

 

 

Another good example re: the MLS is Omar Gonzales at LA Galaxy. If they'd had no salary cap, there's no chance that one of (IMO) the US' best CBs at the moment would have had anywhere near the gametime he'd need to develop.

[LucaAltieri]

So, what exactly is Southampton's secret, and why are all other clubs not emulating them?

 

Relegation, lack of money, necessity of playing their kids.

 

We have many of those same things going on. Very few teams offer kids the same first team opportunities we do. Whether or not they take them is down to them.

 

I do think generally, that English managers don't trust kids.

 

You'll never win a game with 11 James Miners etc etc.

 

Too an extent. It's a high pressure job where 3 losses in a row and people are calling for you to be sacked. It's understandable to a point.

 

That's part of the reason I like MLS. The salary caps and limited "roster" space mean that kids are necessary for building a squad. My Seattle Sounders had DeAndre Yedlin break through last year and are very likely to see Dylan Remick and Eriq Zavaleta this year. There's just no other option for most teams.

 

You get the same thing happen when clubs like Southampton are stuck for cash, or like us: keeping the squad thin. I think we're more likely than other clubs to start producing good young players for that very reason. It just doesn't happen overnight.

 

There are also other factors: as a football coach myself I know there's only so much you can actually do to help players. You can give them all the instruction in the world but if they're not prepared to push themselves then they're not going to get any better. You can't kick the ball for them.

 

As anyone who has ever had a job knows; 90% of the people employed there are just happy turning up and doing the same thing they've always done. Comfortably phoning it in. It's no different in football.

 

Andy Carroll is a great example. When his first team opportunity came up he really knuckled down and you could see him getting better and better. Then he signs his big money contract, thinks he's made it, and he stagnates.

 

There are a lot of variables at play. But the one thing I can say with complete confidence is: remarks like "We're never going to have any good youth players under Pardew" and shit like that are nonsense for many reasons:

 

1) We do give players opportunities to prove themselves. We actively want them to step up because we're at the bare bones most of the time.

2) He's not even the fucking youth coach.

3) Motivation is the single biggest factor in developing a player, and he's shown himself to be reasonably good at managing players (Cabaye, Colo, etc).

4) He has come out publicly and urged these guys to step it up. Whether they do or not is on their own backs. He can't kick the ball for them either.

 

 

Another good example re: the MLS is Omar Gonzales at LA Galaxy. If they'd had no salary cap, there's no chance that one of (IMO) the US' best CBs at the moment would have had anywhere near the gametime he'd need to develop.

 

Word.

 

And this season we should be seeing a lot more of Charlie Rugg and Jack McBean too. Obviously no promises about them being as good as Gonzales, but they're getting the opportunity to make it happen.

[Guest palnese]

I'd love to know how much money the likes of Streete, Newton, Richardson etc are on.

 

My guess is that the 17-18-19 year old kids on professional deals make way too much money even though they've never even been close to the first team or done anything of note in the game.

 

I think that may kill their drive a bit as they've "kind of" made it.

 

[Mick]

I'd love to know how much money the likes of Streete, Newton, Richardson etc are on.

 

My guess is that the 17-18-19 year old kids on professional deals make way too much money even though they've never even been close to the first team or done anything of note in the game.

 

I think that may kill their drive a bit as they've "kind of" made it.

 

 

The answer to you first question will be £1000 a week, I know one of our kids gets that and would expect them to probably get the same.

[Guest palnese]

Madness.