4-3-3

[SEMTEX]

4-3-3 is for teams that aren't shit.

 

We're shit.

[Mistle17]

You got to go with Xisco he could turn out to be our Tevez

 

 

Although, if we play percentages Smith is due to score. Or if Stoke have the Newcastle curse of the x-players scoring against them then Shola must start & Griff plus the Faye's  need taken out in the tunnel.

 

Could you imagine the shame if Amdy Faye scores against us.

 

Please, dont even entertain the thought....

[Guest Heneage]

In regards to the piss poor warming up of Edgar and Carroll. Do you attribute that to the academy producing a lack of professionalism in the players? I've seen Carroll warming up before and he's always laughing even when we are losing its almost like its a day trip for him.

[Mistle17]

In regards to the piss poor warming up of Edgar and Carroll. Do you attribute that to the academy producing a lack of professionalism in the players? I've seen Carroll warming up before and he's always laughing even when we are losing its almost like its a day trip for him.

 

Could be. Although it might just be their general cocky attitude? I saw them on SSN with Edgar giving Carroll a lift in his car so they must be good mates.

[johnnypd]

How I miss your beautiful shape and wonderful execution.

 

I'm not convinced that any central midfield pairing available to us is capable of effectively bossing/dominating any of the midfields we will face between now and the end of the season. Even when Barton returns (and I assume most people would pick him with Guthrie) I fear that we're still too slow, small and weak in that central area to ever see any (regular) effective contributions coming from it.

 

Further to that, I'm not convinced that the players we have at our disposal in that area are good enough footballers to get by without the above characteristics, although the difference Danny Guthrie made in there when he came on today was easily noticeable. Credit goes to him for constantly wanting the ball, for that lovely shoulder-drop he has that buys him an extra second or two on the ball when he has it, and for his constant desire to pass and move. I don't think the lad is a world-beater by any stretch, but you can tell he knows how to play the fucking game.

 

I think that the players in our squad generally, and the players we currently have fit in particular, simply do not perform at their best in a 4-4-2 because we don't have two wingers worthy of the name or, as mentioned, two central midfielders with the physical/technical attributes to be able to compete with most other Premiership combinations (asking Butt and Nolan to battle with Essien, Lampard and Mikel today was only ever going to see one outcome - did anyone see Kevin Nolan do anything useful, by the way?)

 

If the F.A.B. gets his arse in any fit shape to move about (even slightly) on a football pitch and Owen and Martins remain fit then I hope to Jesus we give this a try again. Failing the mighty Viduka gracing us with his portly presence, I wouldn't even mind seeing Carroll or Xisco given a try in his role. Fucking hell, even Shola...

 

Pie in the sky, though, I fear.

 

well said.

 

don't have the wingers for a 4-4-2, don't have the central midfielders for a 4-4-2, and we don't have the strikers for it either.

 

Guthrie in particular is ready made for a 4-3-3 as his technique and passing are excellent but his strength and his engine all stand out as being sub-standard in a midfield two. give him that extra body in the middle and all a sudden those two things arent an issue - bit like how Butt looked fine at the end of last season. I would personally play Guthrie-Geremi-Jonas across the middle, Geremi sitting back like Butt did, Guthrie in Ron's position on the right and Jonas the non-stop running machine that was joey barton, only better. Up-front you have Owen in the hole, dropping back into midfield when needed and making runs forward when not, with Martins and one more (Xisco, Smith, Ameobi, Carroll, Viduka) capable of playing with their back to goal.

 

I also agree with you that yesterday was one-dimensional from what i saw. there was little in the way of diagonal runs, first touch passing or other invention that pulls defenders out of position. it was very basic and direct as if the tactics were 'get it into the box quickly for owen'. in a way i am disappointed that shearer's assistant has been Dowie. I know he needed to bring in a training ground coach but, while Dowie is apparently clued up on coaching methods he is not too bright tactically. calderwood, dowie, hughton - i dont really see any of those as someone who can pull shearer aside and suggest a novel take on tactics or spot out a subtle problem in the balance as a Venables would've (or create an inventive solution to our problems as keegan did last season).

[Pilko]

In regards to the piss poor warming up of Edgar and Carroll. Do you attribute that to the academy producing a lack of professionalism in the players? I've seen Carroll warming up before and he's always laughing even when we are losing its almost like its a day trip for him.

 

Could be. Although it might just be their general cocky attitude? I saw them on SSN with Edgar giving Carroll a lift in his car so they must be good mates.

 

Unless Carroll was so hungover from another night out in Tiger that Edgar had to drive him home after training?

[Thespence]

I saw them on SSN with Edgar giving Carroll a lift in his car so they must be good mates.

 

The Big AC has filled the void left by Matty P moving on to Norwich.

[Thespence]

In regards to the piss poor warming up of Edgar and Carroll. Do you attribute that to the academy producing a lack of professionalism in the players? I've seen Carroll warming up before and he's always laughing even when we are losing its almost like its a day trip for him.

 

I think footballers in general piss around too much in training/warm ups, it is no surprise that the two iconic sporting moments of my life are Wilko's drop goal in the RU World Cup Final & Beckhams freekick against Greece both lads always talk about practice & the time spent on the training ground our lads are more likely to talk about Tup Tup or Tiger Tiger.

[Dave]

We asked Michael (Owen) to do a role that takes a little bit away from his game because of Chelsea’s quality in possession, we might have struggled in midfield without Michael dropping back.

 

We sacrificed Michael in little spells and he wasn’t able to get into the areas we’d like him to get into. If we’re going to get out of this we need to get scoring chances for Michael. We’ll be working on that.

 

Could mean we're looking at playing Owen deeper in a 4-3-3 once others are fit.

 

Could mean from now on he's going to play right up top.

[TRon]

How I miss your beautiful shape and wonderful execution.

 

I'm not convinced that any central midfield pairing available to us is capable of effectively bossing/dominating any of the midfields we will face between now and the end of the season. Even when Barton returns (and I assume most people would pick him with Guthrie) I fear that we're still too slow, small and weak in that central area to ever see any (regular) effective contributions coming from it.

 

Further to that, I'm not convinced that the players we have at our disposal in that area are good enough footballers to get by without the above characteristics, although the difference Danny Guthrie made in there when he came on today was easily noticeable. Credit goes to him for constantly wanting the ball, for that lovely shoulder-drop he has that buys him an extra second or two on the ball when he has it, and for his constant desire to pass and move. I don't think the lad is a world-beater by any stretch, but you can tell he knows how to play the fucking game.

 

I think that the players in our squad generally, and the players we currently have fit in particular, simply do not perform at their best in a 4-4-2 because we don't have two wingers worthy of the name or, as mentioned, two central midfielders with the physical/technical attributes to be able to compete with most other Premiership combinations (asking Butt and Nolan to battle with Essien, Lampard and Mikel today was only ever going to see one outcome - did anyone see Kevin Nolan do anything useful, by the way?)

 

If the F.A.B. gets his arse in any fit shape to move about (even slightly) on a football pitch and Owen and Martins remain fit then I hope to Jesus we give this a try again. Failing the mighty Viduka gracing us with his portly presence, I wouldn't even mind seeing Carroll or Xisco given a try in his role. Fucking hell, even Shola...

 

Pie in the sky, though, I fear.

 

well said.

 

don't have the wingers for a 4-4-2, don't have the central midfielders for a 4-4-2, and we don't have the strikers for it either.

 

Guthrie in particular is ready made for a 4-3-3 as his technique and passing are excellent but his strength and his engine all stand out as being sub-standard in a midfield two. give him that extra body in the middle and all a sudden those two things arent an issue - bit like how Butt looked fine at the end of last season. I would personally play Guthrie-Geremi-Jonas across the middle, Geremi sitting back like Butt did, Guthrie in Ron's position on the right and Jonas the non-stop running machine that was joey barton, only better. Up-front you have Owen in the hole, dropping back into midfield when needed and making runs forward when not, with Martins and one more (Xisco, Smith, Ameobi, Carroll, Viduka) capable of playing with their back to goal.

 

I also agree with you that yesterday was one-dimensional from what i saw. there was little in the way of diagonal runs, first touch passing or other invention that pulls defenders out of position. it was very basic and direct as if the tactics were 'get it into the box quickly for owen'. in a way i am disappointed that shearer's assistant has been Dowie. I know he needed to bring in a training ground coach but, while Dowie is apparently clued up on coaching methods he is not too bright tactically. calderwood, dowie, hughton - i dont really see any of those as someone who can pull shearer aside and suggest a novel take on tactics or spot out a subtle problem in the balance as a Venables would've (or create an inventive solution to our problems as keegan did last season).

 

Good insights there and I'm inclined to agree with you. The midfield is woefully underperforming, whatever we have tried with the 4-4-2 has floundered both this season and last season. Not the system at fault it's just we don't have the players with enough confidence or ablity to string two passes together. We need either Carroll or Xisco to play as a target man with Oba and Owen  playing off him. A midfield three would be Jonas, Butt and Guthrie.

[Segun Oluwaniyi]

How I miss your beautiful shape and wonderful execution.

 

I'm not convinced that any central midfield pairing available to us is capable of effectively bossing/dominating any of the midfields we will face between now and the end of the season. Even when Barton returns (and I assume most people would pick him with Guthrie) I fear that we're still too slow, small and weak in that central area to ever see any (regular) effective contributions coming from it.

 

Further to that, I'm not convinced that the players we have at our disposal in that area are good enough footballers to get by without the above characteristics, although the difference Danny Guthrie made in there when he came on today was easily noticeable. Credit goes to him for constantly wanting the ball, for that lovely shoulder-drop he has that buys him an extra second or two on the ball when he has it, and for his constant desire to pass and move. I don't think the lad is a world-beater by any stretch, but you can tell he knows how to play the f***ing game.

 

I think that the players in our squad generally, and the players we currently have fit in particular, simply do not perform at their best in a 4-4-2 because we don't have two wingers worthy of the name or, as mentioned, two central midfielders with the physical/technical attributes to be able to compete with most other Premiership combinations (asking Butt and Nolan to battle with Essien, Lampard and Mikel today was only ever going to see one outcome - did anyone see Kevin Nolan do anything useful, by the way?)

 

If the F.A.B. gets his arse in any fit shape to move about (even slightly) on a football pitch and Owen and Martins remain fit then I hope to Jesus we give this a try again. Failing the mighty Viduka gracing us with his portly presence, I wouldn't even mind seeing Carroll or Xisco given a try in his role. f***ing hell, even Shola...

 

Pie in the sky, though, I fear.

 

well said.

 

don't have the wingers for a 4-4-2, don't have the central midfielders for a 4-4-2, and we don't have the strikers for it either.

 

Guthrie in particular is ready made for a 4-3-3 as his technique and passing are excellent but his strength and his engine all stand out as being sub-standard in a midfield two. give him that extra body in the middle and all a sudden those two things arent an issue - bit like how Butt looked fine at the end of last season. I would personally play Guthrie-Geremi-Jonas across the middle, Geremi sitting back like Butt did, Guthrie in Ron's position on the right and Jonas the non-stop running machine that was joey barton, only better. Up-front you have Owen in the hole, dropping back into midfield when needed and making runs forward when not, with Martins and one more (Xisco, Smith, Ameobi, Carroll, Viduka) capable of playing with their back to goal.

 

I also agree with you that yesterday was one-dimensional from what i saw. there was little in the way of diagonal runs, first touch passing or other invention that pulls defenders out of position. it was very basic and direct as if the tactics were 'get it into the box quickly for owen'. in a way i am disappointed that shearer's assistant has been Dowie. I know he needed to bring in a training ground coach but, while Dowie is apparently clued up on coaching methods he is not too bright tactically. calderwood, dowie, hughton - i dont really see any of those as someone who can pull shearer aside and suggest a novel take on tactics or spot out a subtle problem in the balance as a Venables would've (or create an inventive solution to our problems as keegan did last season).

 

Good insights there and I'm inclined to agree with you. The midfield is woefully underperforming, whatever we have tried with the 4-4-2 has floundered both this season and last season. Not the system at fault it's just we don't have the players with enough confidence or ablity to string two passes together. We need either Carroll or Xisco to play as a target man with Oba and Owen  playing off him. A midfield three would be Jonas, Butt and Guthrie.

If we are going to play 4-3-3, I'd prefer we'd not drop Nolan. We should at least give him a chance in the position in which he has flourished during his career.

[Pilko]

Jonas--Nolan--Guthrie

----------Owen----------

----Carroll--Martins----

 

please.

[TRon]

How I miss your beautiful shape and wonderful execution.

 

I'm not convinced that any central midfield pairing available to us is capable of effectively bossing/dominating any of the midfields we will face between now and the end of the season. Even when Barton returns (and I assume most people would pick him with Guthrie) I fear that we're still too slow, small and weak in that central area to ever see any (regular) effective contributions coming from it.

 

Further to that, I'm not convinced that the players we have at our disposal in that area are good enough footballers to get by without the above characteristics, although the difference Danny Guthrie made in there when he came on today was easily noticeable. Credit goes to him for constantly wanting the ball, for that lovely shoulder-drop he has that buys him an extra second or two on the ball when he has it, and for his constant desire to pass and move. I don't think the lad is a world-beater by any stretch, but you can tell he knows how to play the f***ing game.

 

I think that the players in our squad generally, and the players we currently have fit in particular, simply do not perform at their best in a 4-4-2 because we don't have two wingers worthy of the name or, as mentioned, two central midfielders with the physical/technical attributes to be able to compete with most other Premiership combinations (asking Butt and Nolan to battle with Essien, Lampard and Mikel today was only ever going to see one outcome - did anyone see Kevin Nolan do anything useful, by the way?)

 

If the F.A.B. gets his arse in any fit shape to move about (even slightly) on a football pitch and Owen and Martins remain fit then I hope to Jesus we give this a try again. Failing the mighty Viduka gracing us with his portly presence, I wouldn't even mind seeing Carroll or Xisco given a try in his role. f***ing hell, even Shola...

 

Pie in the sky, though, I fear.

 

well said.

 

don't have the wingers for a 4-4-2, don't have the central midfielders for a 4-4-2, and we don't have the strikers for it either.

 

Guthrie in particular is ready made for a 4-3-3 as his technique and passing are excellent but his strength and his engine all stand out as being sub-standard in a midfield two. give him that extra body in the middle and all a sudden those two things arent an issue - bit like how Butt looked fine at the end of last season. I would personally play Guthrie-Geremi-Jonas across the middle, Geremi sitting back like Butt did, Guthrie in Ron's position on the right and Jonas the non-stop running machine that was joey barton, only better. Up-front you have Owen in the hole, dropping back into midfield when needed and making runs forward when not, with Martins and one more (Xisco, Smith, Ameobi, Carroll, Viduka) capable of playing with their back to goal.

 

I also agree with you that yesterday was one-dimensional from what i saw. there was little in the way of diagonal runs, first touch passing or other invention that pulls defenders out of position. it was very basic and direct as if the tactics were 'get it into the box quickly for owen'. in a way i am disappointed that shearer's assistant has been Dowie. I know he needed to bring in a training ground coach but, while Dowie is apparently clued up on coaching methods he is not too bright tactically. calderwood, dowie, hughton - i dont really see any of those as someone who can pull shearer aside and suggest a novel take on tactics or spot out a subtle problem in the balance as a Venables would've (or create an inventive solution to our problems as keegan did last season).

 

Good insights there and I'm inclined to agree with you. The midfield is woefully underperforming, whatever we have tried with the 4-4-2 has floundered both this season and last season. Not the system at fault it's just we don't have the players with enough confidence or ablity to string two passes together. We need either Carroll or Xisco to play as a target man with Oba and Owen  playing off him. A midfield three would be Jonas, Butt and Guthrie.

If we are going to play 4-3-3, I'd prefer we'd not drop Nolan. We should at least give him a chance in the position in which he has flourished during his career.

 

Last year the 3 midfielders were Barton, Butt and Geremi. Butt played the hoding role, while Barton played left side and Geremi played right in a narrow midfield. Both Geremi and Barton provided decent passing to the forward players and linked well with Owen. This is not something that Nolan looks capable of, he is basically just a runner who arrives (slowly) into the box. Where would you play him? I have been a critic of Butt but he is a better footballer than Nolan IMO, and he's a specialist defensive midfielder which you need in a 3 man midfield.

[johnnypd]

Well said Tron. There's no need for a Nolan in a 4-3-3 anyway, as Owen fulfills the function of a late arriving midfielder that Nolan is allegedly good at. If he is played in there and constantly getting forward then he needs two dedicated defensive players behind him to cover which means no Jonas. there's only room for one player to break forward and i'd rather it be Jonas than Nolan.

[Gallowgate End]

Guthrie in particular is ready made for a 4-3-3 as his technique and passing are excellent but his strength and his engine all stand out as being sub-standard in a midfield two. give him that extra body in the middle and all a sudden those two things arent an issue - bit like how Butt looked fine at the end of last season. I would personally play Guthrie-Geremi-Jonas across the middle, Geremi sitting back like Butt did, Guthrie in Ron's position on the right and Jonas the non-stop running machine that was joey barton, only better. Up-front you have Owen in the hole, dropping back into midfield when needed and making runs forward when not, with Martins and one more (Xisco, Smith, Ameobi, Carroll, Viduka) capable of playing with their back to goal.

 

 

I think had Keegan not walked away I think we would of seen this I certainly agree Gutierrez abilities would be much more suited in this system.

[Guest saintscoobz]

Why oh why is Nicky Butt in virtually everybodies 'dream line-up'.  The guy is passed it, and costs us dearly week in, week out.  He is not the answer to our problems but more the problem.

 

I agree a 4-3-3 should be tried out as with the exception of Guthrie and Barton our central midfielders are just piss poor.  We also seem to struggle to create chances due to the fact that the midfielders selected find it more than impossible to get into the box and support attacks.  At least playing 3 up front will give us the extra support needed.

 

But please guys Nicky Butt should not be playing as a first choice toon player.

[Yorkie]

Tbf, if we're talking 4-3-3, Nicky Butt is pretty much the only real candidate for the deep-lying midfielder. I'm not excusing every other Newcastle performance he's had, but he was very good in that 4-3-3. Jonas and Guthrie either side of him, with that front trio, and we're laughing.

 

It could be a carbon copy of last season tbh. Beat Stoke and there's renewed confidence. Then we go and rape Spurs at their place.

[Gallowgate End]

Tbf, if we're talking 4-3-3, Nicky Butt is pretty much the only real candidate for the deep-lying midfielder.

 

Agree I thought he was arguably our best player in that end of season run with 4-3-3 his performance away at Tottenham in particular.

[Guest Heneage]

Tbf, if we're talking 4-3-3, Nicky Butt is pretty much the only real candidate for the deep-lying midfielder.

 

Agree I thought he was arguably our best player in that end of season run with 4-3-3 his performance away at Tottenham in particular.

Could he do that role though, the horizontal sweeper playing basically across the pitch instead of up and down.

[TRon]

With Lovenkrands and Viduka being close to availability again, this formation is looking pretty tempting again. Chuck Andy Carroll into the mix and it's clear we have our best assets up front when we are firing. The wing back formation is good for the players we have as well, we should go with one of these IMO.

 

 

[Tooj]

The players to me didn't really seem to know what they were doing last night playing this formation. As in they all actually weren't sure of what role to take up. Maybe José going off changed the game plan as he worked well last season with Martins down the left flank, but at times the players just appeared to be lost.

[TRon]

The players to me didn't really seem to know what they were doing last night playing this formation. As in they all actually weren't sure of what role to take up. Maybe José going off changed the game plan as he worked well last season with Martins down the left flank, but at times the players just appeared to be lost.

 

They looked like that last season as well when we first tried it against Brum, but then we clicked  second half and our confidence soared after that. We also had Barton and Geremi in the midfield and they can pass it a bit.

 

I don't think there's enough running in our midfield or forwards to do it this time round.

[Nobody]

The players to me didn't really seem to know what they were doing last night playing this formation. As in they all actually weren't sure of what role to take up. Maybe José going off changed the game plan as he worked well last season with Martins down the left flank, but at times the players just appeared to be lost.

Which they have been for most of the season, tbf. We created more chances yesterday than we've had in a long time, and I would put that down to us having three "good" strikers on the field. Sure, they all missed a chance each, but I rather we keep playing them in that system and create chances throughout the 90 minutes (bar the last 10 when we looked knackered) than go back to 4-4-2 where we've looked clueless without creating anything.

[Shak]

Saw last night how important Viduka is to that system, once he went off we were completely clueless.

 

The midfield trio certainly didn't help, Butt and Smith didn't hit a good pass all night between them and Guthrie was pretty shit when he came on and all.

[Tachikoma]

I would like to see Geremi on the teamsheet again. Yes he's slow, but with 3 strikers upfront he has plenty to aim at.