The College Dropout Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Rooney is the only one with some actual class in the box. Rooney & Gerrard are the only players i'd like to see a chance fall too in this England side. What's a seasons best total for any of the other lads infront of goal in the PL? Carroll with 13? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 There were a few times later where the Italian defenders seemed to stand away from Carroll and wait for him to bring it down. Only to then try to take the ball once he had it at his feet, or wait for him to pass before trying to win it back. He scared them at first and I thought he was going to make an impact but they had him sussed imo. Pirlo also seemed to get even more space once he was on, although that was also largely down to the midfield being abysmal and out on their feet by that point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Rooney is the only one with some actual class in the box. Rooney & Gerrard are the only players i'd like to see a chance fall too in this England side. What's a seasons best total for any of the other lads infront of goal in the PL? Carroll with 13? Something like that, Defoe has a similar maximum as well. I would bank on Wellbeck and Carroll too, they can both finish. And to a certain extent Young (when he remembers how to play again). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Bullshit. Welbeck had 82% pass completion rate. Carroll 53% pass completion. You need more than just those statistics to go on though. For example, if Carroll chests the ball down amongst 3 Italian defenders, but just fails to get it to a teammate, I would say that was decent play. But it would go down as a failed pass I assume. From watching the game, I thought Carroll did pretty well when he had the chance. There was a fair few times when the pass was just poor. He was doing the difficult things then failing at the easy ones. He wasn't bad but he wasn't particularly good either. When he's on the pitch the long ball is too common. I think he played 10 minutes more than Welbeck but he received the ball a lot more which didn't help really. For most fo the second half the tactic was Lescott > Carroll > Back to Italy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayson Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Chances did fall to Rooney, several times. He wasted all of them. Said it last night, but says a lot when we're playing to Carrolls strengths & not his. Italians had him sorted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Hodgson might as well have selected Leon Britton tbh. At least he's used to maintaing posession and playing simple passes forward from deep at Swansea. England had no central midfielders capable of consistently receiving the ball deep (in space), turning and playing the ball forward to a teammates feet. It was incredible to watch. The number of times Scott Parker would just knock the ball back to a defender immediately after receiving the ball from one, was ludicrous. You can see he's totally unaware of what is around him before he receives the ball. Really poor player in that respect. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Thing with Carroll coming on was that he only really got the same service Welbeck had for the majority of the match. Long balls from Hart getting to him 40 yards from goal. The gameplan didn't change much if at all with his introduction. Welbeck was actually winning a good number of headers too. In that respect it was a pointless substitution, doing the same thing and expecting a different result. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I was massively disappointed with Rooney, it was like he wasn't there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Geordie Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 As much as it pains me to say, Terry was great last night. Still should be his last game for England though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 There were a few times later where the Italian defenders seemed to stand away from Carroll and wait for him to bring it down. Only to then try to take the ball once he had it at his feet, or wait for him to pass before trying to win it back. He scared them at first and I thought he was going to make an impact but they had him sussed imo. Pirlo also seemed to get even more space once he was on, although that was also largely down to the midfield being abysmal and out on their feet by that point. Yep, sussed is the word. Welbeck did a decent job of tracking Pirlo, not great but he would be near on occassion. Welbeck seems a tactically aware football player. As the game went on Rooney left Pirlo alone totally and Carroll did the same. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Did Henderson touch the ball btw? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Thing with Carroll coming on was that he only really got the same service Welbeck had for the majority of the match. Long balls from Hart getting to him 40 yards from goal. The gameplan didn't change much if at all with his introduction. Welbeck was actually winning a good number of headers too. In that respect it was a pointless substitution, doing the same thing and expecting a different result. His introduction probably encouraged more long balls. It's not his fault but when your technically inferior you just lunch it and Andy is an easy target. Look at how many times Bonucci won the ball but looked to pass it. I don't mean the times when he had time and space but when he'd make a clearance, it would be targeted to another Italian, like a pass. then watch Lescott. Terry didn't do anything wrong. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Another thing. I would be slightly worried about the manager England have chosen, as they might have got it wrong again. Hodgson seems very committed to 4-4-2 / 4-4-1-1, and never even hinted at changing this despite England being over run in midfield in pretty much all of the games. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Did Henderson touch the ball btw? I think it came close to him in our box and he missed it when trying to kick it. That was all I remember of him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Rooney is the only one with some actual class in the box. Rooney & Gerrard are the only players i'd like to see a chance fall too in this England side. What's a seasons best total for any of the other lads infront of goal in the PL? Carroll with 13? Something like that, Defoe has a similar maximum as well. I would bank on Wellbeck and Carroll too, they can both finish. And to a certain extent Young (when he remembers how to play again). Welbeck has never hit double figures in PL and Carroll, nah. I don't trust them in front of goal. I am hopeful but not expectant. I'm talking about genuine class here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stephen927 Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Thought the first half was very encouraging. Don't know what was said at half time but we came out a totally different team. Felt like we started playing for pens after the hour mark. Disappointing to see how much time and space class players like Pirlo were given in midfield. Almost as if Hodgson told the players not to go closer than 2 metres to the man in possession for fear of giving away a set piece. Felt the players conducted themselves very well in the tournament. Gone a long way to instilling some pride back into the international team in my eyes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ocho Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Another thing. I would be slightly worried about the manager England have chosen, as they might have got it wrong again. Hodgson seems very committed to 4-4-2 / 4-4-1-1, and never even hinted at changing this despite England being over run in midfield in pretty much all of the games. I thought that too. He should have sacrificed a striker and have another man in midfield just to man mark Pirlo. Pirlo had so much time and space, it was unbelievable. Not sure if he was expecting Welbeck or Rooney to do that job. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
loki679 Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Rooney is the only one with some actual class in the box. Rooney & Gerrard are the only players i'd like to see a chance fall too in this England side. What's a seasons best total for any of the other lads infront of goal in the PL? Carroll with 13? Something like that, Defoe has a similar maximum as well. I would bank on Wellbeck and Carroll too, they can both finish. And to a certain extent Young (when he remembers how to play again). Welbeck has never hit double figures in PL and Carroll, nah. I don't trust them in front of goal. I am hopeful but not expectant. I'm talking about genuine class here. http://images.icnetwork.co.uk/upl/sundaysun/sep2011/5/7/sammy-ameobi-image-2-98046141.jpg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Rooney is the only one with some actual class in the box. Rooney & Gerrard are the only players i'd like to see a chance fall too in this England side. What's a seasons best total for any of the other lads infront of goal in the PL? Carroll with 13? Something like that, Defoe has a similar maximum as well. I would bank on Wellbeck and Carroll too, they can both finish. And to a certain extent Young (when he remembers how to play again). Welbeck has never hit double figures in PL and Carroll, nah. I don't trust them in front of goal. I am hopeful but not expectant. I'm talking about genuine class here. Like Van Persie and Huntelaar class finishing you mean..? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Another thing. I would be slightly worried about the manager England have chosen, as they might have got it wrong again. Hodgson seems very committed to 4-4-2 / 4-4-1-1, and never even hinted at changing this despite England being over run in midfield in pretty much all of the games. I think the idea of selecting the right manager is the wrong way round in the way we do it. Going out and getting an expensive world class manager like Capello say just seems desperate. I don't think international coaches will win you tournaments generally, you have to get all the other stuff right from the ground up. Developing players the right way, playing a set system that all the players understand and work with and then simply having a decent coach who buys into the whole set-up. Just like Germany, is Loew a top manager or is he just a cog that fits the system? I dunno. Short term I think Hodgson was a decent appointment in all honesty. Whether he's the right man to help rebuild the whole set-up is more important than how he sets us up tactically in the short term with this current group of players. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I feel sorry for all of the strikers in the England team. They go for ages without touching the ball, and then on the odd occassion they do, they are so far away from goal, with hardly any supprt near them, and they need to produce miracles. How many times did you see any striker receiving the ball to feet just outside the box? England just couldn't pass the ball well enough to get them in these areas. It was terrible. IMO all strikers are absolved from blame, really. The way England currently play, the defenders will always shine the most, because in reality everyone is defending most of the time, and defenders are the best at it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayson Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 From the options we have available id say: Walcott, Sturridge, A Johnson, Young etc are all good enough to trouble those italian fullbacks. If one doesnt isnt doing it in the tournament, use another. And Ashley Cole, Richards, Jones etc are not so poor at fullback that the above should be held back to compensate either. Did Roy get the most from what he had? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 England could definitely do with picking more players with athleticism and pace. This alone would cause teams so much more problems. Milner keeps getting picked to help defend, but what are you defending? The team is struggling so much to pass the ball and create chances anyway, so there's no lead to defend! Just so negative. The likes of Lennon, Adam Johnson, Sturridge and Sinclair should have been on that team. They would cause problems, and relieve so much pressure by being able to run with the ball. I just don't understand the current setup at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Cruel once more to go out on penalties but obviously, the fair result in terms of the game. Thought we started well and with purpose more than anything. We actually got at the Italians and I thought we were the better team for the first 20-25 mins. Quickly after that though we did our usual thing of getting deeper and deeper and obviously this encouraged Italy. Pirlo got on the ball more and of course if he's afforded the time and space he was last night he is going to run the show (from a footballing POV he was outstanding last night, arguably performance of the tournament so far). Thought Young, Milner and Johnson were awful, Rooney didn't look fully fit and Parker was moved all around the place by the smarter Italian movement and possession. Terry and Lescott for the most part were good, Gerrard has been our best player this tournament comfortably, and that's as someone who shall we say isn't Gerrard's biggest fan. One big positive was giving the likes of Carroll and Welbeck some tournament experience, I think there is promise there. But, as per usual, too many players didn't perform and surprise surprise, we got knocked out. Of course, fully advocate analysis at a grass roots level but we've known this for many years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Another thing. I would be slightly worried about the manager England have chosen, as they might have got it wrong again. Hodgson seems very committed to 4-4-2 / 4-4-1-1, and never even hinted at changing this despite England being over run in midfield in pretty much all of the games. I think the idea of selecting the right manager is the wrong way round in the way we do it. Going out and getting an expensive world class manager like Capello say just seems desperate. I don't think international coaches will win you tournaments generally, you have to get all the other stuff right from the ground up. Developing players the right way, playing a set system that all the players understand and work with and then simply having a decent coach who buys into the whole set-up. Just like Germany, is Loew a top manager or is he just a cog that fits the system? I dunno. Short term I think Hodgson was a decent appointment in all honesty. Whether he's the right man to help rebuild the whole set-up is more important than how he sets us up tactically in the short term with this current group of players. Totally agree, plus I think he is and one of the reasons the FA appointed him. Could you imagine Redknapp giving a shit about the youth development? I certainly couldn't. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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