The old Chris Hughton discussion thread

[Liam Liam Liam O]

I want to see Routledge given another chance and would love to see him come good because I really like him. Don't think the system we've been playing suits him, in the first few games he often get to the byline and have nobody waiting for the cross as Carroll had dropped deep. Suits him much better with two up.

 

[madras]

I want to see Routledge given another chance and would love to see him come good because I really like him. Don't think the system we've been playing suits him, in the first few games he often get to the byline and have nobody waiting for the cross as Carroll had dropped deep. Suits him much better with two up.

neither of our wide players are helped by no movement from the middle (forwards or midfielders) meaning the oppos defence can squeeze them to wherever they want.......in addition rotledge isn't exactly helped by having perch for supoort.

[Ronaldo]

I want to see Routledge given another chance and would love to see him come good because I really like him. Don't think the system we've been playing suits him, in the first few games he often get to the byline and have nobody waiting for the cross as Carroll had dropped deep. Suits him much better with two up.

 

That's what I just said, fucking plagiarist.

[Liam Liam Liam O]

I want to see Routledge given another chance and would love to see him come good because I really like him. Don't think the system we've been playing suits him, in the first few games he often get to the byline and have nobody waiting for the cross as Carroll had dropped deep. Suits him much better with two up.

neither of our wide players are helped by no movement from the middle (forwards or midfielders) meaning the oppos defence can squeeze them to wherever they want.......in addition rotledge isn't exactly helped by having perch for supoort.

 

One thing that struck me at the weekend was how few of our players compliment each other in terms of their style of play, probably only Colo & Enrique and to an extent Jose & Jonas, although Jonas seems to allow Jose to do an awful lot of his work.

[Guest ObiChrisKenobi]

I want to see Routledge given another chance and would love to see him come good because I really like him. Don't think the system we've been playing suits him, in the first few games he often get to the byline and have nobody waiting for the cross as Carroll had dropped deep. Suits him much better with two up.

neither of our wide players are helped by no movement from the middle (forwards or midfielders) meaning the oppos defence can squeeze them to wherever they want.......in addition rotledge isn't exactly helped by having perch for supoort.

 

One thing that struck me at the weekend was how few of our players compliment each other in terms of their style of play, probably only Colo & Enrique and to an extent Jose & Jonas, although Jonas seems to allow Jose to do an awful lot of his work.

 

Glad someone else is picking up on this. So few forward runs off the ball from this guy.

[Mick]

I think the biggest current threat to Hughton is the home attendances.

[Parky]

If you're going to play 2 wide full blown wingers, then people need to get into the box. We seem to be playing it half cocked. I started a thread about playing 2 forwards at home and we just have to do that. There is really no poiint holding back at home, the rest of the side isn't good enough for any fancy stuff.

[80]

I think the biggest current threat to Hughton is the home attendances.

 

Interesting point.

[madras]

I want to see Routledge given another chance and would love to see him come good because I really like him. Don't think the system we've been playing suits him, in the first few games he often get to the byline and have nobody waiting for the cross as Carroll had dropped deep. Suits him much better with two up.

neither of our wide players are helped by no movement from the middle (forwards or midfielders) meaning the oppos defence can squeeze them to wherever they want.......in addition rotledge isn't exactly helped by having perch for supoort.

 

One thing that struck me at the weekend was how few of our players compliment each other in terms of their style of play, probably only Colo & Enrique and to an extent Jose & Jonas, although Jonas seems to allow Jose to do an awful lot of his work.

 

Glad someone else is picking up on this. So few forward runs off the ball from this guy.

it was pointed out as soon as jose and jonas became an item on the left.

[Guest Heneage]

Alot of the time Jonas does seem to run 5 yards ahead and then out to the touchline and just refuse to move.

[80]

If Hughton gets the praise when the team does well, people need to understand that he'll get criticism when they do badly - especially when the reason we failed to beat Stoke and Wigan were because of mistakes on the coaching team's part.

 

Spot on Jonny.  Seems it doesn't work like that though.

 

What if you take the view that most of the club is set up for failure and anything better which seems to stem from him which is better than that can be considered virtually supererogatory?

 

This 'balanced, sensible' view that some people seem to have that victory should bring praise and defeat should bring criticism and pressure is dumb to reality. It doesn't take into account the context of any of the events under analysis and it doesn't help achieve what we presumably actually want which is ultimate success.

 

I think it's more that people at one end of the scale think he shouldn't be criticised or held accountable at all tbh.

 

Who?

 

Anyone saying he shouldn't be under pressure tbh, of which there are quite a few.

 

The nature of the job he is paid for means if things aren't going well, he should be under pressure.  At home we've had three very poor results on the bounce against three of the poorest sides in the division, that definately deserves criticism.

 

He therefore deserves to be under pressure.  Not to the extent of wanting him sacked mind.

 

What sort of pressure and why? What do you think the pressure will achieve for us? Do you think he'll do a better job if everyone knows he'll be out if the next four games don't go in his favour?

 

Being held accountable and being pressurised are two different things, by the way. Related but not indivisible. Having major reasons for a defeat attributed to things that are in your power and fairly clearly should have been different is being reasonably held accountable, having people raising the pitch, getting hysterical and talking about 'consequences' if things don't change, with only all the negative ifs and buts regarding your future decisions being focused upon is being pressurised.

 

I don't even agree with the premise that it's the nature of a team manager's job that if things aren't going well he should be under pressure. He isn't fully the master of his own destiny. He isn't the policy setter. All football managers are managed - by their board. Some things he does control, and if he controls them badly then he should be held accountable. But badness doesn't necessarily equal a failing football manager, the buck really doesn't stop with him.

 

I take the point that major scrutiny is required given our recent home results - I've said so elsewhere previously, they're pretty concerning. All the same, it's probably worth us all remembering the other results these teams and other supposedly shit teams have been getting this season. Us, WBA, Stoke, Wigan and Blackpool have got unexpectedly good results against Man Utd, Arsenal, Chelsea (not us, by the way), Tottenham (twice), Villa (twice), Man City (twice), Everton and Liverpool. You can even throw in results between themselves (Wigan 0 Blackpool 4, nevermind our upsets etc...). It's a strange season, inconsistent in nature.

[Liam Liam Liam O]

If Hughton gets the praise when the team does well, people need to understand that he'll get criticism when they do badly - especially when the reason we failed to beat Stoke and Wigan were because of mistakes on the coaching team's part.

 

Spot on Jonny.  Seems it doesn't work like that though.

 

What if you take the view that most of the club is set up for failure and anything better which seems to stem from him which is better than that can be considered virtually supererogatory?

 

This 'balanced, sensible' view that some people seem to have that victory should bring praise and defeat should bring criticism and pressure is dumb to reality. It doesn't take into account the context of any of the events under analysis and it doesn't help achieve what we presumably actually want which is ultimate success.

 

I think it's more that people at one end of the scale think he shouldn't be criticised or held accountable at all tbh.

 

Who?

 

Anyone saying he shouldn't be under pressure tbh, of which there are quite a few.

 

The nature of the job he is paid for means if things aren't going well, he should be under pressure.  At home we've had three very poor results on the bounce against three of the poorest sides in the division, that definately deserves criticism.

 

He therefore deserves to be under pressure.  Not to the extent of wanting him sacked mind.

 

What sort of pressure and why? What do you think the pressure will achieve for us? Do you think he'll do a better job if everyone knows he'll be out if the next four games don't go in his favour?

 

Being held accountable and being pressurised are two different things, by the way. Related but not indivisible. Having major reasons for a defeat attributed to things that are in your power and fairly clearly should have been different is being reasonably held accountable, having people raising the pitch, getting hysterical and talking about 'consequences' if things don't change, with only all the negative ifs and buts regarding your future decisions being focused upon is being pressurised.

 

I don't even agree with the premise that it's the nature of a team manager's job that if things aren't going well he should be under pressure. He isn't fully the master of his own destiny. He isn't the policy setter. All football managers are managed - by their board. Some things he does control, and if he controls them badly then he should be held accountable. But badness doesn't necessarily equal a failing football manager, the buck really doesn't stop with him.

 

I take the point that major scrutiny is required given our recent home results - I've said so elsewhere previously, they're pretty concerning. All the same, it's probably worth us all remembering the other results these teams and other supposedly shit teams have been getting this season. Us, WBA, Stoke, Wigan and Blackpool have got unexpectedly good results against Man Utd, Arsenal, Chelsea (not us, by the way), Tottenham (twice), Villa (twice), Man City (twice), Everton and Liverpool. You can even throw in results between themselves (Wigan 0 Blackpool 4, nevermind our upsets etc...). It's a strange season, inconsistent in nature.

 

I think you're over-analysing it.

[jdckelly]

more shit stirring this time by bird

http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Joe-Kinnear-could-be-set-for-a-sensational-as-Newcastle-manager-with-Chris-Hughton-fighting-to-save-his-job-article606085.html

[Pilko]

Nolan as player-coach :lol: :lol:

[Dave]

more shit stirring this time by bird

http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Joe-Kinnear-could-be-set-for-a-sensational-as-Newcastle-manager-with-Chris-Hughton-fighting-to-save-his-job-article606085.html

 

Which came from this: http://www.sundaysun.co.uk/sport/newcastle-united/nufc-news/2010/10/10/kinnear-would-love-toon-comeback-harford-79310-27439092/

 

I highly doubt there's even the slightest bit of truth in this and frankly the journalists in question should be ashamed of themselves for perpetuating it.

[Jamie]

I think hes a member on here

[Kaizero]

While on the subject of Kinnear, Solbakken (Copenhagen manager and Wimbledon player 97-98) was asked at the CL press conferece at Camp Nou today if he'd "learnt anything from his time in England", to which he replied: "There were no tactics at Wimbledon, so no."

[Liam Liam Liam O]

Nolan as player-coach :lol: :lol:

 

Just remember who kept telling you it was happening when it does actually happen.

[BottledDog]

We pass the ball around fine, we just can't ever seem to find that creative spark to unlock a defence.  I would say the football is better than what we saw under Fat Sam.

 

Which is why Ben Arfas injury is such a monumental kick in the knackers for Hughton and all of us this season.

[merlin]

The situation now is a hell of a lot different than it was when Ardiles was boss. We're not in a position to offer anybody the kind of money Keegan was given to spend, and everybody else is spending that kind of money too.

 

Keegan only had 250,000 to spend(and that was SJH's personal money used to buy Kilcline) when he arrived at SJP, and 3 months to stop the club plunging into the 3rd Div...how does your reasoning stand up ? KK had to keep the club in the 2nd Div AND stop it going bust before he could start rebuilding the side...and in addition, how much do you think he spent getting the club promoted ? Before he signed Andy Cole and Scott Sellars in late Feb 1993, he had only bought Beresford and Venison for around 500,000.

KK only started spending big in 94/95 and that was when the club was making huge progress on and off the field.

We here are talking about keeping the club in the PL., not building a title-chasing side and a club of this size should be quite able to do that...as should a decent manager given a modicum of support by the board.

[cubaricho]

To be fair, comparing what KK did in the 90s and what Hughton has to deal with now is like apples and oranges.  Two totally different climates in football.

[merlin]

The situation now is a hell of a lot different than it was when Ardiles was boss. We're not in a position to offer anybody the kind of money Keegan was given to spend, and everybody else is spending that kind of money too.

 

Keegan only had 250,000 to spend(and that was SJH's personal money used to buy Kilcline) when he arrived at SJP, and 3 months to stop the club plunging into the 3rd Div...how does your reasoning stand up ? KK had to keep the club in the 2nd Div AND stop it going bust before he could start rebuilding the side...and in addition, how much do you think he spent getting the club promoted ? Before he signed Andy Cole and Scott Sellars in late Feb 1993, he had only bought Beresford and Venison for around 500,000.

KK only started spending big in 94/95 and that was when the club was making huge progress on and off the field.

We here are talking about keeping the club in the PL., not building a title-chasing side and a club of this size should be quite able to do that...as should a decent manager given a modicum of support by the board.

 

To be fair, I have looked back at KK's promotion signings and he actually spent 1.8m until signing Cole and Sellars late in the season...Beresford was actually 650,000, Venison and Bracewell 250,000 ; Lee came in October

for 700,000.

When you consider how much Coloccini and Enrique cost alone in the current side, and that KKs promotion team only needed a couple of players added to finish 3rd in the PL, you can see that even after 18 years he still got value for money.

 

I disagree that you cannot compare the 2 eras - yes, the club displayed more ambition under SJH than Ashley, but when you compare the cost of the current side you can hardly say they are great value...Williamson and Tiote maybe, but Barton...?? How about Jonas compared to Rob Lee..or Andy Cole with ANY of the current strike force ?

[cubaricho]

I'm talking about football in general.  Very different climates, expectations, and above all, gulfs in class.  You could go from Div 2 -> top 3 finish in the First Division in those days.  These days, never.

[Segun Oluwaniyi]

Comparing prices from the early nineties to prices from 2010, is a stupid and futile exercise imo. So much has changed.

[ohmelads]

Houllier put it well recently in an interview, saying there are two things in football, performances and results.

 

For years we have had poor performances but scraped a few wins and survived. Souness's team played some abysmal football but he had the luxury of a couple of matchwinners in his squad who could pull out a result for him. It's the other way round this time if you ask me, our football is decent but we lack the forwards to turn performances into results. They're often the most expensive players because they will do that for you. Hughton has lost his best forward player. Look at our bench man. You can talk about tactics all day but Ameobi is Ameobi and Lovenkrands is Lovenkrands. Carroll hardly has any Premier League goals in his career yet he is our main hope. Until January, and possibly the end of the season, this is our lot and yeah, we'll struggle. Mourinho would struggle with this squad.

 

Do you really want to roll the dice again with Ashley calling the shots? The same man who appointed Joe Kinnear, the same man who you know will not pay up for a top manager even if we could attract one? The same owner who sold players for profit as the club fought relegation? I thoroughly believe Ashley's aim is bare survival and he wants rid of the club - his actions back that up.

 

Stick with Hughton and I believe we'll survive but it won't be comfortable. Maybe 15th or so, higher if he has some funds in January to strengthen. Let Ashley bring in any random manager and I could see us going down to be honest.