Newcastle United 1 - 2 Stoke City - 26/09/10 - post match reaction from page 31

[merlin]

Tony Pulis took all the honours yesterday - he got it right with his tactics and subs whereas Hughton did not.

 

Not totally as simple as that, but a worrying pattern is developing in home games now - we are controlling large parts of the game but failing totally to create any REAL chances. If Huth's clumsy foul on Carroll had taken place at the Britannia Stadium, we almost certainly would not have got the pen - def not if it had been at OT or Emirates, so we got lucky with the award anyway. Apart from that, only a cross-cum-shot from Enrique and two missed free kicks from HBA looked like causing Stoke any trouble.

We dominated MF in First H, but it petered out near their box because we WEREN'T GETTING PAST THEIR FINAL DEFENDER on the flanks ; do that often enough and even the best organised side will crack.

 

Why did this not happen ?

1. Routledge didn't do the business on the right

2. HBA didn't do the business on the left - his link with Enrique is nowhere near as productive as Jose with Jonas but then Jonas can't cross or make a good final pass....

 

Barton was playing too deep, that is Tiote's job - Barton should be getting into position to support Carroll as should Nolan(nothing further needs to be said about THAT..!), but he is not quick enough...I still think he has a fitness problem because he fades as the game goes on. Many of his passes are sideways, not enough forward and to be fair, Carroll has far too much to do against a massed defence to keep the ball when its played up to him. We needed a second striker brought in and we still do - 4-5-1 is poor at home unless you have really quick and dangerous MF players, such as Rob Lee.

 

The lack of a decent quick forward plus the absence of a quick, accurate attacking midfielder is costing us as I thought it might before the season started. HBA might fill the latter role, but only if he plays in Nolan's position, and we all know that is going to be a problem for Hughton....it may turn out to be a final one if he leaves it too late to act.

 

I won't say Stoke were deserved winners because they didn't create much in the first half and they got lucky with Perch's OG although the lad had to go for that ball played in. We didn't create enough chances to win the game and the only threat to them in 2nd half was a shot from, ironically enough, Perch.

 

Very, very disappointing result and also worrying because of lack of clear chances - cannot recall more than one occasion when their keeper had to make a decent save.

 

If this pattern continues in home games we are going to start struggling - just because we beat Villa 6-0 in the first match does not mean we have cracked it..look at WBA, they had a poor start but are now doing OK. Winning the CCC last season does not guarantee our survival.

[merlin]

Quite simply, Stoke sponged us, and I would have thought that Hughton would have seen that. I have faith that it'll be rectified for the next time, though.

 

Just as after Blackpool, perhaps ..?

[jdckelly]

Tony Pulis took all the honours yesterday - he got it right with his tactics and subs whereas Hughton did not.

 

Not totally as simple as that, but a worrying pattern is developing in home games now - we are controlling large parts of the game but failing totally to create any REAL chances. If Huth's clumsy foul on Carroll had taken place at the Britannia Stadium, we almost certainly would not have got the pen - def not if it had been at OT or Emirates, so we got lucky with the award anyway. Apart from that, only a cross-cum-shot from Enrique and two missed free kicks from HBA looked like causing Stoke any trouble.

We dominated MF in First H, but it petered out near their box because we WEREN'T GETTING PAST THEIR FINAL DEFENDER on the flanks ; do that often enough and even the best organised side will crack.

 

Why did this not happen ?

1. Routledge didn't do the business on the right

2. HBA didn't do the business on the left - his link with Enrique is nowhere near as productive as Jose with Jonas but then Jonas can't cross or make a good final pass....

 

Barton was playing too deep, that is Tiote's job - Barton should be getting into position to support Carroll as should Nolan(nothing further needs to be said about THAT..!), but he is not quick enough...I still think he has a fitness problem because he fades as the game goes on. Many of his passes are sideways, not enough forward and to be fair, Carroll has far too much to do against a massed defence to keep the ball when its played up to him. We needed a second striker brought in and we still do - 4-5-1 is poor at home unless you have really quick and dangerous MF players, such as Rob Lee.

 

The lack of a decent quick forward plus the absence of a quick, accurate attacking midfielder is costing us as I thought it might before the season started. HBA might fill the latter role, but only if he plays in Nolan's position, and we all know that is going to be a problem for Hughton....it may turn out to be a final one if he leaves it too late to act.

 

I won't say Stoke were deserved winners because they didn't create much in the first half and they got lucky with Perch's OG although the lad had to go for that ball played in. We didn't create enough chances to win the game and the only threat to them in 2nd half was a shot from, ironically enough, Perch.

 

Very, very disappointing result and also worrying because of lack of clear chances - cannot recall more than one occasion when their keeper had to make a decent save.

 

If this pattern continues in home games we are going to start struggling - just because we beat Villa 6-0 in the first match does not mean we have cracked it..look at WBA, they had a poor start but are now doing OK. Winning the CCC last season does not guarantee our survival.

tbh this is the first game where we've struggled to make chances and thats down to the way stoke play i think, vs blackpool it was the finishing and their keeper that kept us from scoring rather than lack of chances

[merlin]

Tony Pulis took all the honours yesterday - he got it right with his tactics and subs whereas Hughton did not.

 

Not totally as simple as that, but a worrying pattern is developing in home games now - we are controlling large parts of the game but failing totally to create any REAL chances. If Huth's clumsy foul on Carroll had taken place at the Britannia Stadium, we almost certainly would not have got the pen - def not if it had been at OT or Emirates, so we got lucky with the award anyway. Apart from that, only a cross-cum-shot from Enrique and two missed free kicks from HBA looked like causing Stoke any trouble.

We dominated MF in First H, but it petered out near their box because we WEREN'T GETTING PAST THEIR FINAL DEFENDER on the flanks ; do that often enough and even the best organised side will crack.

 

Why did this not happen ?

1. Routledge didn't do the business on the right

2. HBA didn't do the business on the left - his link with Enrique is nowhere near as productive as Jose with Jonas but then Jonas can't cross or make a good final pass....

 

Barton was playing too deep, that is Tiote's job - Barton should be getting into position to support Carroll as should Nolan(nothing further needs to be said about THAT..!), but he is not quick enough...I still think he has a fitness problem because he fades as the game goes on. Many of his passes are sideways, not enough forward and to be fair, Carroll has far too much to do against a massed defence to keep the ball when its played up to him. We needed a second striker brought in and we still do - 4-5-1 is poor at home unless you have really quick and dangerous MF players, such as Rob Lee.

 

The lack of a decent quick forward plus the absence of a quick, accurate attacking midfielder is costing us as I thought it might before the season started. HBA might fill the latter role, but only if he plays in Nolan's position, and we all know that is going to be a problem for Hughton....it may turn out to be a final one if he leaves it too late to act.

 

I won't say Stoke were deserved winners because they didn't create much in the first half and they got lucky with Perch's OG although the lad had to go for that ball played in. We didn't create enough chances to win the game and the only threat to them in 2nd half was a shot from, ironically enough, Perch.

 

Very, very disappointing result and also worrying because of lack of clear chances - cannot recall more than one occasion when their keeper had to make a decent save.

 

If this pattern continues in home games we are going to start struggling - just because we beat Villa 6-0 in the first match does not mean we have cracked it..look at WBA, they had a poor start but are now doing OK. Winning the CCC last season does not guarantee our survival.

tbh this is the first game where we've struggled to make chances and thats down to the way stoke play i think, vs blackpool it was the finishing and their keeper that kept us from scoring rather than lack of chances

 

Not true - how many chances did we create at Everton apart from HBA's wonder strike ?

And as for Blackpool, most of the saves by their keeper were a result of defender errors rather than excellent clear-cut chances created by us. It doesn't matter HOW much of the play you have, you are never going to get goals unless you create CLEAR chances...and apart from the Villa and Wolves games in the Pl, we have not created anywhere near enough ; this is mainly because the wingers are not good enough to get past the final defender.

You can't say 'that is down to how Stoke play' either, because the job of an opposing team is to get a result ; the home side has the responsibility to entertain and win the match.

[Yorkie]

Can't believe we got so easily battered by their main, cornerstone tactic. Do your fucking homework, lads.

[doublecrown]

Tony Pulis took all the honours yesterday - he got it right with his tactics and subs whereas Hughton did not.

 

Not totally as simple as that, but a worrying pattern is developing in home games now - we are controlling large parts of the game but failing totally to create any REAL chances. If Huth's clumsy foul on Carroll had taken place at the Britannia Stadium, we almost certainly would not have got the pen - def not if it had been at OT or Emirates, so we got lucky with the award anyway. Apart from that, only a cross-cum-shot from Enrique and two missed free kicks from HBA looked like causing Stoke any trouble.

We dominated MF in First H, but it petered out near their box because we WEREN'T GETTING PAST THEIR FINAL DEFENDER on the flanks ; do that often enough and even the best organised side will crack.

 

Why did this not happen ?

1. Routledge didn't do the business on the right

2. HBA didn't do the business on the left - his link with Enrique is nowhere near as productive as Jose with Jonas but then Jonas can't cross or make a good final pass....

 

Barton was playing too deep, that is Tiote's job - Barton should be getting into position to support Carroll as should Nolan(nothing further needs to be said about THAT..!), but he is not quick enough...I still think he has a fitness problem because he fades as the game goes on. Many of his passes are sideways, not enough forward and to be fair, Carroll has far too much to do against a massed defence to keep the ball when its played up to him. We needed a second striker brought in and we still do - 4-5-1 is poor at home unless you have really quick and dangerous MF players, such as Rob Lee.

 

The lack of a decent quick forward plus the absence of a quick, accurate attacking midfielder is costing us as I thought it might before the season started. HBA might fill the latter role, but only if he plays in Nolan's position, and we all know that is going to be a problem for Hughton....it may turn out to be a final one if he leaves it too late to act.

 

I won't say Stoke were deserved winners because they didn't create much in the first half and they got lucky with Perch's OG although the lad had to go for that ball played in. We didn't create enough chances to win the game and the only threat to them in 2nd half was a shot from, ironically enough, Perch.

 

Very, very disappointing result and also worrying because of lack of clear chances - cannot recall more than one occasion when their keeper had to make a decent save.

 

If this pattern continues in home games we are going to start struggling - just because we beat Villa 6-0 in the first match does not mean we have cracked it..look at WBA, they had a poor start but are now doing OK. Winning the CCC last season does not guarantee our survival.

 

I wish you were the manager today!

[Guest]

Krul - 6

Perch - 5

Enrique - 6

Williamson - 6

Coloccini - 7

Routledge - 5

Ben Arfa - 6 (Jonas - 7)

Tiote - 7 (Ameobi - 6)

Barton - 6

Nolan - 6

Carroll - 5

[Raconteur]

So I've slept on this debacle, and read through 43 pages of angst and anger - there's not much to add. However, I wanted to stick up for Carroll and Barton, who I thought have been getting some unfair stick.

 

Yes, Carroll didn't have much impact in the second half. But that's because all the balls aimed at him were way too high - I remember a handful of occasions where he went up, in competition with a Stoke defender, and got to the ball. Unfortunately, they were too high for knock-downs, but became flick-ons. And we all know there's nobody to run on to these flick-ons. And as for his defending for their first goal - I remember reading Carroll being praised in the Cloud 9 thread about his defensive work. Yes, he made a mistake - against one of the best strikers outside the top 6-7. Why was he marking their most potent aerial weapon?

 

As for Joey Barton, I'm not saying he was man of the match, but ratings of 4 and 5 are out of line. To use FM speak, he's the best player we have in that sort of CMa role, his movement was good and some of his passing was very good too. Yes, his set pieces were appalling. But so were Ben Afra's - and I'm not blaming either of them. Apart from Raylor, how long has it been since we had a genuine dead-ball specialist? For too long we have complained about corners hitting the first man, or free kicks slamming into the wall or into the stands.

 

What is needed is a commitment to improve our set pieces - for a bottom half team (which we are), they can be the difference between comfort and a squeaky bum come May. And the first step towards that is moulding two or three of our players into dead ball specialists. It's not as if it's impossible to learn. How did the likes of Beckham and Zola get to be so good at them? Practice, hours and hours of practice. And if I was one of our younger brigade (like Guthrie, Carroll and even the likes of Ferguson and Vuckic) I'd be thinking there was a chance to carve a niche for myself.

 

We saw yesterday how an absolutely woeful footballer, with a single weapon, has carved a career out for himself. Rory Delap would be League 1 if he couldn't throw a ball in well. And sure, part of that is natural "talent", but I reckon he spent more than a few hours on the training ground (after everyone else has gone home) perfecting his technique. That dedication is something we need one or two of our boys to make.

 

Imagine what it would feel like if everytime we got a free kick we had genuine hope instead of praying for a miracle. Imagine if other teams felt the same dread defending one of our corners - as opposed to us currently fearing every other team every time they get a dead ball situation within forty yards of goal...

 

[NG32]

Need to play two strikers at home and fuck nolan off.  Simple.

[Ronaldo]

We only have one striker who's anywhere near capable of doing well at this level. We need HBA in Nolan's position.

[Skirge]

Anyone seen highlights was their freekick a freekick, was there any contact ?

[Ronaldo]

It was.

[cambb]

Need to play two strikers at home and fuck nolan off.  Simple.

 

is the correct answer.

[Wullie]

Who's the other striker though, that's the problem. And if you do that, where does Ben Arfa fit in? Not sure it's the answer, much as i like Lovenkrands. For me Ben Arfa must play behind Carroll with Routledge and Jonas supporting effectively from wide and not acting as orthodox wingers. We can play this way but our players now seem to struggle with not pinging it to the big guy, which is more annoying since we didn't do it last year.

[NG32]

Anyone seen highlights was their freekick a freekick, was there any contact ?

 

The Enrique put his hand on whats his faces head and he dived like he was shot, justice was done when his dive resulted in him dislocating his arm.

[Ronaldo]

We played plenty of turgid long-ball crap last season, especially up until february.

[Dr Venkman]

if he HAS to play Nolan, i might be inclined to play Ben Arfa in Bartons position at home and give him licence to wander, his passing is very good and that's before he starts having a run at people. really though, drop Nolan and give Ben Arfa a run in his position with Jonas on the left.

[Guest Brazilianbob]

I can't believe we are not playing 4 4 2 at home.  Carroll and Ameobi up front with Ben Arfa in the hole

 

I would play:

 

            Krul

 

Raylor  Campbell  Colo    Jose

 

              Tiote

 

    Barton        Jonas

 

              Ben Arfa

 

  Carroll      Ameobi

 

If that doesn't work we at least have the option of bringing on Routledge to run at the full back when he is tired.  I also think we need Campbell because he won't allow the opposition to bully him, and he is a presence in the opposition penalty area at corners, free kicks etc.

 

[Cronky]

I can't believe we are not playing 4 4 2 at home.  Carroll and Ameobi up front with Ben Arfa in the hole

 

I would play:

 

             Krul

 

Raylor   Campbell  Colo    Jose

 

              Tiote

 

     Barton        Jonas

 

               Ben Arfa

 

   Carroll       Ameobi

 

If that doesn't work we at least have the option of bringing on Routledge to run at the full back when he is tired.  I also think we need Campbell because he won't allow the opposition to bully him, and he is a presence in the opposition penalty area at corners, free kicks etc.

 

 

I agree with you about Campbell, although for the same reason (ie keeping some physical presence), I'd keep Williamson rather than Colo.

 

Getting more out of the attack is a bit difficult. Shola-Carroll might be better than Nolan-Carroll, but still looks slow. We can only try.

 

I actually thought the starting midfield yesterday looked good.

[Mugatu]

I hate the way Stoke go about winning football matches. Can't remember seeing them score a goal which wasn't a header or a bundled effort into the net after a goal mouth scramble. Fair play it works for them but they're just the footballing equivilent of people spamming grenades and rocket launchers on Modern Warfare 2.

[Disco]

Who's the other striker though, that's the problem. And if you do that, where does Ben Arfa fit in? Not sure it's the answer, much as i like Lovenkrands. For me Ben Arfa must play behind Carroll with Routledge and Jonas supporting effectively from wide and not acting as orthodox wingers. We can play this way but our players now seem to struggle with not pinging it to the big guy, which is more annoying since we didn't do it last year.

 

We haven't done it the last two games either. Surely one thing they should've learned from the Chelsea match is that if we keep recycling the ball and probing waiting for a chance to arise we will get success instead of panicking and humping it long aimlessly.

[Wullie]

Next time we play this mob i want us to have a comfortable lead, keep playing for throws, dry the ball for 30-45 seconds, take a normal short throw and repeat.

[Neil]

Next time we play this mob i want us to have a comfortable lead, keep playing for throws, dry the ball for 30-45 seconds, take a normal short throw and repeat.

 

That would be some excellent time-wasting like. Particularly at the Britannia due to the run-up you can get. Dry the ball for 30 seconds (demanding a towel - wouldn't want to get your shirt too wet, you're not an animal), take a massive run-up and just throw it a metre in front of you to a teammate.

[Disco]

Next time we play this mob i want us to have a comfortable lead, keep playing for throws, dry the ball for 30-45 seconds, take a normal short throw and repeat.

 

That would be some excellent time-wasting like. Particularly at the Britannia due to the run-up you can get. Dry the ball for 30 seconds (demanding a towel - wouldn't want to get your shirt too wet, you're not an animal), take a massive run-up and just throw it a metre in front of you to a teammate.

 

I'm sure it was the 1-1 with us a couple of seasons ago where the ball was actually only in play half an hour or something daft.

[ujpest doza]

The rumour I heard was that Tiote was injured, which was fair enough but we fell apart when him and Ben Arfa went off.

 

Also, you have to ask the question - just how shite does Kevin Nolan have to be to get subbed?  His sumo impression for the free kicks was just embarrassing!

Ben Arfa was definately pointing and feeling his left thigh when he came off, dunno about Chick though.

 

Also, ben Arfa is not a left winger, drifts about too much to do that and needs a free role behind or playing off Carroll with jonas on the left to link up with Enrique who was often caught in possession with no one to pass to or making runs for him when Ben Arfa was on the field.

 

Routledge was poor and Perch just looks nervous.

 

We played to their strengths too much instead of keeping it on the floor and passing it around them and running at them which they didn't like when we did that.

 

Carroll was also at fault for Jones goal as well as the header when he hit the bar, lost him both times. The first time Jones hit the post he elbowed Collocinni but the ref and linesman let him get away with it.