Alan Pardew

[Elliottman]

At the end of the day, if you were to compare our players, man to man, with the best of the PL, we should and would be up there. The only reason we're not is due to the manager. One thing's for sure as far as I'm concerned, if Bobby were here, Hatem would have played the full 90 minutes of every single game he's been fit and available for. He's meeting Ashley's criteria, so he's safe for now. But there's no reason to accept where we are, we should be aiming for better with what we have. Whether there is a manager available to do this right now, is another question entirely. It doesn't mean I don't have the right to pass opinion on the fact that Pardew is clearly out of his depth at this level.

 

Up where??

[LateRegistration]

At the end of the day, if you were to compare our players, man to man, with the best of the PL, we should and would be up there. The only reason we're not is due to the manager. One thing's for sure as far as I'm concerned, if Bobby were here, Hatem would have played the full 90 minutes of every single game he's been fit and available for. He's meeting Ashley's criteria, so he's safe for now. But there's no reason to accept where we are, we should be aiming for better with what we have. Whether there is a manager available to do this right now, is another question entirely. It doesn't mean I don't have the right to pass opinion on the fact that Pardew is clearly out of his depth at this level.

 

I'd say if you look at our players man for man, we are actually above what we'd expect, of course we are! Look at the fact that after saylor-collocini our next centre-back is Williamson, who would never get games in one of the so called big-6. Even forwards wise before the cisse signing it was a case of Ba and either Best/Shola/Lovenkrands. Look at our fullbacks Simpson/raylor. All examples of players that man for man are NOT up there with the best of the premier league, they're not even close.

 

Jus t look at this thread : -

 

http://www.newcastle-online.org/nufcforum/index.php/topic,89739.0.html

 

Didn't see many predicting we may be finishing 7th or above, which we are in a fantastic position to do.

 

Anyways who do you propose may be able to get the "best out of these" players?

 

 

 

[Flip]

Our starting XI is top 7 in this league. We are by no means a better team than that but Pardew is also not OVERACHEIVING with these players. 

 

Pardew has proven he knows how to make this team play good football as we did in the first 11 games but he has also proven his limitations such as no PLAN B and sometimes no plan at all. What pisses me off the most is that he is immune to criticism by some. We are 1 position above what we should with the way Ba has played. Pardew gets far more credit than deserved, although he does get more abuse than he deserves too.

 

Im tired of the shit we have been playing for a while now, which we have but sacking Pardew is uncalled for aswell as will only cause this club instablity. Not his biggest fan but I hope he starts paying attention to the mistakes he has been committing. 

[MyPalAl]

You can't please all the people all the time (SBR?) 

[thedudeabides]

At the end of the day, if you were to compare our players, man to man, with the best of the PL, we should and would be up there. The only reason we're not is due to the manager. One thing's for sure as far as I'm concerned, if Bobby were here, Hatem would have played the full 90 minutes of every single game he's been fit and available for. He's meeting Ashley's criteria, so he's safe for now. But there's no reason to accept where we are, we should be aiming for better with what we have. Whether there is a manager available to do this right now, is another question entirely. It doesn't mean I don't have the right to pass opinion on the fact that Pardew is clearly out of his depth at this level.

 

We are 'up there', unless you mean we should be in the top 4?

 

If you do, you're an idiot.

[Darth Crooks]

Satan - Up There (+ lyrics)

[Mattoon]

I can't knock the guy for where we are in the league and if you had said we'd be here at the start of the season I'd snap your hand off! Trouble is now I've seen what we CAN do, but have failed to do this year so far, I want to see more from our team. He's clearly doing some thing right or we wouldn't be so high up the table, but our tactics this side of xmas have been substandard to say the least, with Arsenals xmas hangover, Liverpool's inhability to sustain a winning streak and Chelski's OAP demise, we should be challenging for that 4th place spot. Only the two Manchester clubs and the Spuds have shown and sort of sustained class this season and where they rightly deserve to be.

As for today's game, I hope that teaches Pardew a lesson that we should be playing a more attack minded game at home, obviously it helped that the Scum were reduced to 10 men, but we were dominant before that and I'm convinced that we would have got a result out of this game even had there not been a sending off. If he leaves HBA out again after today's evidence then you have to question his mentality.

[Guest BlacknWhiteArmy]

Very, very stark in his interviews on NUFCtv.

[Tooj]

Very, very stark in his interviews on NUFCtv.

What did he have to say?

[Guest BlacknWhiteArmy]

Already been mentioned a lot of it, Cisse not understanding the occasion, telling Williamson how he needs to prove the fans wrong- talked about hearing a lot of comments about him being the weakest link during the week and so on.

[S.S.R.]

Another 17 games and we'll be able to directly compare his record with Glen Roeder, who didn't have the benefit of taking over a team in the top half.

[Guest Haris Vuckic]

 

Neither did Pardew. We were 11th.

[Hughesy]

 

Neither did Pardew. We were 11th.

 

[S.S.R.]

 

Neither did Pardew. We were 11th.

 

Well, we were comfortable enough to be shocked at Hughton's departure. Cant compare it to the shambles Sourness left us in.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Why do we need to compare his record to Roeder?

[thomas]

For the purposes of .. uh.  er. 

[The Prophet]

 

Neither did Pardew. We were 11th.

 

Well, we were comfortable enough to be shocked at Hughton's departure. Cant compare it to the shambles Sourness left us in.

 

Give the very different circumstances of their arrivals and the very different teams they inherited it's a bit of a strange comparison to make.

[Robster]

Why do we need to compare his record to Roeder?

They're both cockney's.

[S.S.R.]

Former West Ham managers with the insulation of an impressive run of results, belying their limitations, which become more evident towards the end of their employment here.

 

He's a suave Roeder.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Former West Ham managers with the insulation of an impressive run of results, belying their limitations, which become more evident towards the end of their employment here.

 

Ah, you have the future sight. Apologies for doubting.

[Guest pintofscottsellers]

Mackems are kicking off about some incident with O'Niell, what happened there? did Pardew celebrate in front of them or something? They see to forget Steve Bruce sprinting down the touch line last season

[jdckelly]

whereas Roeder's good bit was towards the end of a season while Pardews doing well over a full season

 

yes he's made mistakes however here are the facts, we are 6th in the table he's gotten more right this season than he's got wrong. Was anyone seriously expecting us to be in this position pre season? more than a few was worried about relegation

[Si]

Why do we need to compare his record to Roeder?

[S.S.R.]

Nobody has to, but as a benchmark (not successful, not catastrophically bad) he's a useful comparison. A lot more revealing than finishing above Stoke and Swansea.

[Beren]

If Hughton took us as far as he could, then f*** me Pardew did a while ago with his shrewd transfer dealings [if indeed he even had much to do with them]. What else has he got left to offer? Serious question. What are his strengths as a manager?

 

As a fan who found the Hughton dismissal incredibly harsh, to do the same with Pardew would be somewhat perplexing. Pardew is limited as a manager I think we're all aware of that but he has brought a lot of strengths to the table and it's a key contributing factor in our impressive league position. Along with maticulous pre-match preperation Pardew normally has us performing as a unit who are not only well organised but are also difficult to turn over. He has players who would look more at home in the tier below supplemeting a decent core of quality while managing to maintian the excellent team spirit established within the Hughton era. To deny him any credit at would be absolutely staggering in my view. 

 

I agree with you that Pardew is limited. With respect to the oft-touted 'meticulous pre-match preparation', the squad have on numerous occasions been quoted as being pleased with his organisational skills, and whilst I find that very commendable, it's actually quite incriminating too. For all his planning and research, he has been unable to assert his authority over teams, highlight their weaknesses or emphasise our strengths. We've won (where we have won) mostly by nicked goals and without controlling play for more than twenty minutes per game. This suggests to me that despite his laudable organisational skills, he is for the most part unable to apply anything he learns and prise performances out of what are (for me) undeniably talented resources.

 

We have, for most of the season, become difficult to turn over. Most of that was early season though if we're honest. Since that Man City match, I wouldn't call it "difficult to turn over" so much as quite lucky frankly. As usual, I will emphasise that good defending/keeping isn't luck, but when the opposition dictate the tempo and create more clear cut chances on a regular basis - I certainly don't think 'luck' doesn't play a part. That's just me, and I know it's a bit of a woolly argument - but games at Ewood, Molineux, OT, Anfield, Loftus Road and arguably others have been occasions where we've got more than our performance deserved - and but for better opposition finishing (as opposed to anything we did correctly) could easily have run away from us into Spurs (a) and Fulham (a) horror shows. I don't call that being 'difficult to turn over' although I would understand, if not agree, with the opposing viewpoint.

 

Tactically incapable and an idiot, quite frankly. 1,208 pages attesting to the fact that 95% of the board know HBA should be a starter, or bedded in and a system established around him (and other key players) for the long-term benefit of the team.  Does he deserve credit for bringing HBA on at half-time? Does he f***. Not after surrendering first-half to long-ball tactics. Deserves as much credit as McClaren for throwing on more strikers in the Eufa Cup when he was a couple of goals down the other year. When your plans fail so comprehensively and you're forced to change something, that isn't inspired/brave... it's desperate and a forced last resort.

 

Pardew, like many managers is a creature of habit. He rigidly sticks to 4-4-2, he prefers his hard working wingers and he likes to keep a consistent back four. This doesn't make him a tactical idiot, in fact he's proved to be anything but. Take Stoke for example where prior research revealed the opposition to have little threat at full back nor in the middle, this allowed us to double up on the wingers and nullify their main threat. This isn't to say he has his limitations, as was brutally exposed by Martin Jol at the Cottage, this is one the reasons I believe he is an average manager. To go along with that I wholeheartedly agree on the Ben Arfa point, his absence has been a major negative during the Pardew reign to date.

 

You can point to that one match, and not many others I'd wager. Even I feel rather harsh saying a broken clock is right twice a day, but it does feel rather apt here given the weight of supporting evidence in the opposing column! The reason I called him an idiot (other than post-match anger!) is because of long-term issues which have not been sufficiently rectified or even addressed. Among these include his ability to change things/react during 90 minutes, his proclivity to wait until things break before he changes anything (cf. Chelsea at home), his persistence with Obertan until he got injured (he might still be starting if he hadn't been ) and top-of-the-tree of my worries... the dogshit football we play 80% of the time. Even against weak opposition.

 

Then there's how we cede momentum when we're on top. Wolves (h) was the first time we've been punished notably for it - but many, many people have been bleating on about the risks he has been running since the very first games in the season (Wolves (a), Everton (h) among others).

 

These are examples off the top of my head - I worry how many 'warning games' I could dig out if I did any considered research.

 

These are all long-term issues which seem to go over the top of his head. This strikes me as a much better gauge of his abilities than isolated matches. I try to look at progression and development. At the start of the season, I remember saying I'd be interested to see how he learns and adapts.. and that there's room for improvement for both the team and the manager. He hasn't shown much improvement, if I'm honest. If he'd shown even medium-sized strides in the right direction I'd be edified that the work-in-progress is a worthwhile exercise. I know great teams don't happen overnight and there is great merit in having tenures the length of Wenger, Ferguson etc... but not if you've backed Steve Bruce, McLeish.

 

Patience with a manager, in and of itself, doesn't guarantee any decent yield for your time! I'm not saying Pardew is as bad as them, but I hope you see what I mean. It's now March, and Pardew is still alienating our best creative player while we continue to hoof from Krul to Cisse for a solid 45 minutes. That's daft in my book. We had to hit our season nadir today at half-time before he brought on HBA. As I said, that's desperation - not growth.

 

Pig-sick of this fraud - strip Gupter of his award and give it to Pardew. He's a glorified PR man. Doesn't look like he has a foggiest about football - just prozone.

 

This 'fraud' has us sitting sixth in the league, two points behind Chelsea in fifth and while I agree we haven't always played our best stuff this season we're still having an excellent campaign to date. Do you feel a glorified PR man would have us achieving the same? Or are you being a little harsh?

 

For the above reasons, I don't think I am being especially harsh. Maybe I'm playing up to the 'delusional Mag' but I'm willing to run that gauntlet. In terms of personnel, even accounting for our poor squad depth, we are top seven minimum IMO (on the strength of our first-team core/relatively injury-free season). Even taking into account that we only have 3 CBs. Draw what conclusions you will over the strength of the league, but I do think that is true for 2011/12. As ever, I sincerely hope he improves because it seems for better or worse he'll be here for a while.