Mole_Toonfan Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 They were not gash or one of the worst sides. They were not great but what they did was stifle us, keep the ball well enough and came away with a very good away point. I wouldn't mind us set up like that away from home. Bolton at home were much worse as were Wolves for long periods. NUFC have played much worse than Swansea did on our patch this season by the way and that's what's more galling. Stifle us? we dominated possession until Tiote went off we had 20 attempts compared to thier 3 they couldnt spring 3 passes together until Tiote went off. Do you just like disagreeing for the sake of it? even when you know its utter bollocks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BooBoo Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Simply a case of building another side up to make us look worse, HTTs agenda against Pardew has resulted in him simply making stuff up to suit his crusade against AP. The other day even a criticism of Cabaye by myself was bizarrely credited to AP by HTT as further "evidence" against Pardew. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallace Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Does anybody really think we sold Nolan and Barton because Pardew wanted to? Or was it those above him who made that decision? I've always suspected Pardew was quite keen to get rid of Nolan, not so certain about Barton though. I'd go along with this, though I suspect the club wanted the players committee to be dismantled. Even S. Taylor said it couldn't continue like it was. I recall Pardew saying that he had given a list to the board of players to be sold and another list of players that could be sold if a decent offer was received. I always thought that Nolan and Barton were on the latter list. Also there was a lot of bigging up of Nolan towards the end of last season e.g. that he didn't realise how good a footballer he was which I think some managers do when they want rid. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnypd Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 swansea consistently play very good, passing football and are doing very well out of the mediocre players at their disposal, have outpassed the likes of man city and arsenal this season and put in a masterful away display vs fulham the other day. seems like some are focusing on the one game against us because, frankly, it's all they have to go on. ignore such fools. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 swansea consistently play very good, passing football and are doing very well out of the mediocre players at their disposal, have outpassed the likes of man city and arsenal this season and put in a masterful away display vs fulham the other day. seems like some are focusing on the one game against us because, frankly, it's all they have to go on. ignore such fools. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 By the way, even if they were rubbish againts us which to be honest I personally don't think they were, they were not great but they did a good job on us, we should still be beating them at home. The fact we couldn't says more about ourselves than them not that we should even be comparing ourselves with Swansea. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 swansea consistently play very good, passing football and are doing very well out of the mediocre players at their disposal, have outpassed the likes of man city and arsenal this season and put in a masterful away display vs fulham the other day. seems like some are focusing on the one game against us because, frankly, it's all they have to go on. ignore such fools. No i responded to the post that they gave us the run around when they came to SJP which wasnt the case its obvious they are one of the best footballing sides in the league....... Just in that particular game they was more defensive than Inter at Camp Nou and had no ambition to get anything other than a 0-0 draw. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 swansea consistently play very good, passing football and are doing very well out of the mediocre players at their disposal, have outpassed the likes of man city and arsenal this season and put in a masterful away display vs fulham the other day. seems like some are focusing on the one game against us because, frankly, it's all they have to go on. ignore such fools. As usual Johnny cuts through the crap and gets to the heart of the issue. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 swansea consistently play very good, passing football and are doing very well out of the mediocre players at their disposal, have outpassed the likes of man city and arsenal this season and put in a masterful away display vs fulham the other day. seems like some are focusing on the one game against us because, frankly, it's all they have to go on. ignore such fools. ...and the same Jol that creamed Pards was speechless after the game...Fulham were completely and definitevely outclassed by Swansea. At times the passing was I can only describe as mesmeric. Outstanding. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golfmag Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Does anybody really think we sold Nolan and Barton because Pardew wanted to? Or was it those above him who made that decision? I've always suspected Pardew was quite keen to get rid of Nolan, not so certain about Barton though. Well apparently - from a source that could not be telling anything other than the truth: Nolan was sold basically because firstly his influence on the other players was felt to be too great, secondly because of his drinking and thirdly because the club felt his physical conditioning and mobility was only going to go one way. Barton was sold because his mood on any particular day had too big an impact on the whole club. If he came to tarining in the wrong mood, the whole camp was affected and he was just completely unplayable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tyson Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 swansea consistently play very good, passing football and are doing very well out of the mediocre players at their disposal, have outpassed the likes of man city and arsenal this season and put in a masterful away display vs fulham the other day. seems like some are focusing on the one game against us because, frankly, it's all they have to go on. ignore such fools. It's difficult for them to compete in the transfer market, for top-tier talent. Whether that be emerging but already well-known talent (ie Chamberlain), or established. The size of their market-base, and the related financial pull, sees to this. IMHO they're a couple of really good players away from challenging for a Europa slot. They're missing an organiser at the back, and a central attacking midfielder with more of a killer edge. This is down to the available talent across the park, but Swansea's final-ball (in their final 1/3) is often the great let-down in comparison to the build-up play. For all their fluent passing & possession stats in the middle third (which are both admirable) the conversion rate to straight forward scoring opportunities is down. Due to the dynamics of the transfer market, they'll have to discover a rough diamond or two, at a fraction of the going rate, or unearth a gem through the juniors. The technical football Rodgers employs at first team level would certainly smooth over the transition from academy to first-team football, if the approach is consistent at the lower/junior levels. An interview with Rodgers certainly gave insight into his methodology, when he spoke of his admiration for the Dutch schooling system. This definitely enhances the success rate of developing 1st teamers from within their academy set-up. Either way i hope they're able to unearth the required players, as highlighted earlier. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tyson Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 classic NO forum "debate" going on again: Group A: results have been good, performances poor and ultimately that's likely to lead to poorer results unless pardew changes his tactics and selections in the long run... Group B: we're 6th man, you can't criticize pardew for results, it's a disgrace to even think of that Group A: agree that results are good, saying that in future they're likely to not be good anymore Group B: but results are good, we're 6th man repeat until pardew is fired We have a seasons worth of performances that show little correlation between possession/domination & results in comparison to the importance of simply having a very strong defensive system and attackers that will do enough to get the points. If teams have a very hard time scoring against you & you are good at putting the ball in the net, you will win games against most sides. Pardew has put in place the defensive system that achieves that & bought the attackers that do the business the other side. In what way is it likely that this will suddenly stop working? I wouldn't delegate that much praise on Pardew's doorstep, for systematically & deliberately targetting 'finishers' that are capable of killing sides with very few chances created in open play. The team's genuine matchwinners are Ba, Ben Arfa and now Cisse - with special mention to Collo as an additional threat from set-pieces. And those attackers mentioned falls into the overall policy of identifying & pursuiing players whose current value has opportunistically slipped below their true market worth, and can be moved-on for a profit. Arfa: damaged goods (at Marseille, prior to his loan) with his contract running into it's final two years. OM attempts to tout him (to bigger spending clubs, for a higher transfer fee) failed. Ba: we cashed in on a contractual release clause. Cisse: Freiburg's valuation far exceeds ours in the Summer, and we're appropriately rebuffed. Freiburg's table predicament changes later in the year (unexpectantly poor season) and the spectre of relegation forces an unexpected firesale of arguably their top asset, as they seek to reinforce the playing list (on a limited budget) for the post-Jan relegation fight . While they're on our books , with Ba hopefully secured to a new deal, all three are capable of putting 40m, into the coffers, for outgoing transfer deals. HBA is the wildcard in that lot, if he fully realizes his potential and doesn't become distracted, namely by man-management issues. The attacking trio in particular, thanks to their technique and athletic ability alone, are capable of scoring against the run-of-play. They'll survive in a turgid playing system of anti-football, on talent alone, but likewise we won't get the best out them over the long haul - just sporadic bursts. This type of Souness/Fat Sam/Kinnear/Pardew defensive anti-football goes against every principle they've been taught, and it will likely chip away at their morale over time. Ben Arfa has already made called-out Pardew's style of football, in that it goes against everything that he has been taught at Clairefontaine, by directly comparing it against & making reference to Brendan Rodger's pass-and-move football. They deserve better. It's sucker-punch football which is being coached by Pardew, and those genuine match-winners with resale value (who can conjure a score out of nothing) in many of our narrow wins this season will be difficult to replace. Within the constraints of our budget, by consistently attempting to acquire this calibre of player on the cheap, top-6 finishes (let alone top half) is unsustainable. Ba's and Ben Arfa's don't grow trees for a combined transfer fee of less than 10m. And it's a self-defeating style of play for any club hoping to develop raw talent from within the academy set-up, as the gulf in football coaching philosophies (between a more technical base at the academy level, and Pardew's) too wide a dividing gap. The Barcelona's, Ajax's and Arsenal's of the footballing world are consistent (re: their overall tactical philosophy) from academy to first team. Positive judgement is always passed on the rapidfire development once their youngsters are finally blooded into the first team picture. They look like seasoned already. Natural talent obviously has to be there, but the transition to first-team football is seamless. The gameplan and tactics are already entrenched, and that's thanks to having a consistent coaching & tactical mindset at all levels. Agree with most of that. What's the thing about Ben Arfa and the style of football? It was post-match after our first clash with Swansea, whether it was directly after or during the following week i can't specifically remember. He made mention of & admired Swansea's style of play, after they outpassed & outmoved us in that said match. It was the type pass-and-move footy that he was taught, back in his junior/academy days at Clarefontaine. Surprised he said that as Swansea were awful against us and played probably their most 'defensive' game of the season - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/16124233 Our most defensive game in 01/02 (and we were a ball-playing unit, particularly away from home, that employed the full width of the pitch ala Swansea) was at Arsenal, against one of Wenger's 'great' teams in the early part of the decade. It was a similarly cagey performance, just like Swansea's. Despite having a good ball-playing midfield unit ourselves, we respected their talent, and sat deep. I know the stats of the day don't bear relection on this, and it's easier to fall into the trap of looking at the ProZone numbers & say that Wenger's men were raping us ie. making us look awful. But like Swansea were able to do here, we moved the ball around when the pressure needed to be alleviated, and opened up their attacking side of thier game when the opportunity arose. In Swansea's case it was in the final twenty mins. That cagey performance & result, during his time here, was SBR's masterpiece. Likewise Rodger's had to respect the overall level of talent available to Pardew, by comparison to his own squad which was mediocre. And the early season form of key players, namely Ba, needed to be respected as well. With the players at Rodger's disposal, it was a well earned, cagey point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
toon25 Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Does anybody really think we sold Nolan and Barton because Pardew wanted to? Or was it those above him who made that decision? I've always suspected Pardew was quite keen to get rid of Nolan, not so certain about Barton though. Well apparently - from a source that could not be telling anything other than the truth: Nolan was sold basically because firstly his influence on the other players was felt to be too great, secondly because of his drinking and thirdly because the club felt his physical conditioning and mobility was only going to go one way. Barton was sold because his mood on any particular day had too big an impact on the whole club. If he came to tarining in the wrong mood, the whole camp was affected and he was just completely unplayable. Sounds about right tbh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BooBoo Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 classic NO forum "debate" going on again: Group A: results have been good, performances poor and ultimately that's likely to lead to poorer results unless pardew changes his tactics and selections in the long run... Group B: we're 6th man, you can't criticize pardew for results, it's a disgrace to even think of that Group A: agree that results are good, saying that in future they're likely to not be good anymore Group B: but results are good, we're 6th man repeat until pardew is fired We have a seasons worth of performances that show little correlation between possession/domination & results in comparison to the importance of simply having a very strong defensive system and attackers that will do enough to get the points. If teams have a very hard time scoring against you & you are good at putting the ball in the net, you will win games against most sides. Pardew has put in place the defensive system that achieves that & bought the attackers that do the business the other side. In what way is it likely that this will suddenly stop working? I wouldn't delegate that much praise on Pardew's doorstep, for systematically & deliberately targetting 'finishers' that are capable of killing sides with very few chances created in open play. The team's genuine matchwinners are Ba, Ben Arfa and now Cisse - with special mention to Collo as an additional threat from set-pieces. And those attackers mentioned falls into the overall policy of identifying & pursuiing players whose current value has opportunistically slipped below their true market worth, and can be moved-on for a profit. Arfa: damaged goods (at Marseille, prior to his loan) with his contract running into it's final two years. OM attempts to tout him (to bigger spending clubs, for a higher transfer fee) failed. Ba: we cashed in on a contractual release clause. Cisse: Freiburg's valuation far exceeds ours in the Summer, and we're appropriately rebuffed. Freiburg's table predicament changes later in the year (unexpectantly poor season) and the spectre of relegation forces an unexpected firesale of arguably their top asset, as they seek to reinforce the playing list (on a limited budget) for the post-Jan relegation fight . While they're on our books , with Ba hopefully secured to a new deal, all three are capable of putting 40m, into the coffers, for outgoing transfer deals. HBA is the wildcard in that lot, if he fully realizes his potential and doesn't become distracted, namely by man-management issues. The attacking trio in particular, thanks to their technique and athletic ability alone, are capable of scoring against the run-of-play. They'll survive in a turgid playing system of anti-football, on talent alone, but likewise we won't get the best out them over the long haul - just sporadic bursts. This type of Souness/Fat Sam/Kinnear/Pardew defensive anti-football goes against every principle they've been taught, and it will likely chip away at their morale over time. Ben Arfa has already made called-out Pardew's style of football, in that it goes against everything that he has been taught at Clairefontaine, by directly comparing it against & making reference to Brendan Rodger's pass-and-move football. They deserve better. It's sucker-punch football which is being coached by Pardew, and those genuine match-winners with resale value (who can conjure a score out of nothing) in many of our narrow wins this season will be difficult to replace. Within the constraints of our budget, by consistently attempting to acquire this calibre of player on the cheap, top-6 finishes (let alone top half) is unsustainable. Ba's and Ben Arfa's don't grow trees for a combined transfer fee of less than 10m. And it's a self-defeating style of play for any club hoping to develop raw talent from within the academy set-up, as the gulf in football coaching philosophies (between a more technical base at the academy level, and Pardew's) too wide a dividing gap. The Barcelona's, Ajax's and Arsenal's of the footballing world are consistent (re: their overall tactical philosophy) from academy to first team. Positive judgement is always passed on the rapidfire development once their youngsters are finally blooded into the first team picture. They look like seasoned already. Natural talent obviously has to be there, but the transition to first-team football is seamless. The gameplan and tactics are already entrenched, and that's thanks to having a consistent coaching & tactical mindset at all levels. Agree with most of that. What's the thing about Ben Arfa and the style of football? It was post-match after our first clash with Swansea, whether it was directly after or during the following week i can't specifically remember. He made mention of & admired Swansea's style of play, after they outpassed & outmoved us in that said match. It was the type pass-and-move footy that he was taught, back in his junior/academy days at Clarefontaine. Surprised he said that as Swansea were awful against us and played probably their most 'defensive' game of the season - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/16124233 Our most defensive game in 01/02 (and we were a ball-playing unit, particularly away from home, that employed the full width of the pitch ala Swansea) was at Arsenal, against one of Wenger's 'great' teams in the early part of the decade. It was a similarly cagey performance, just like Swansea's. Despite having a good ball-playing midfield unit ourselves, we respected their talent, and sat deep. I know the stats of the day don't bear relection on this, and it's easier to fall into the trap of looking at the ProZone numbers & say that Wenger's men were raping us ie. making us look awful. But like Swansea were able to do here, we moved the ball around when the pressure needed to be alleviated, and opened up their attacking side of thier game when the opportunity arose. In Swansea's case it was in the final twenty mins. That cagey performance & result, during his time here, was SBR's masterpiece. Likewise Rodger's had to respect the overall level of talent available to Pardew, by comparison to his own squad which was mediocre. And the early season form of key players, namely Ba, needed to be respected as well. With the players at Rodger's disposal, it was a well earned, cagey point. Oh do be quiet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Deadmau5 Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 IMHO they're a couple of really good players away from challenging for a Europa slot. They're missing an organiser at the back, and a central attacking midfielder with more of a killer edge. This is down to the available talent across the park, but Swansea's final-ball (in their final 1/3) is often the great let-down in comparison to the build-up play. For all their fluent passing & possession stats in the middle third (which are both admirable) the conversion rate to straight forward scoring opportunities is down. Be that as it may, a team beating City, Arsenal and Fulham 3-0 away is more than good enough for a europa league spot Imo. They have gelled this season and with a good run-in they could well grab 7th already. Can`t say Im looking forward to visiting them tbh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Colossus Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/561069_296699347068441_153705904701120_735146_399143938_n.jpg :slowclap: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Brilliant if he said that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Crooks Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Could have sworn it was 'see you for a wine later?' Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beren Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/newcastle-united/nufc-news//tm_headline=pardew-s-respect-for-west-brom-manager-hodgson%26method=full%26objectid=30597970%26siteid=72703-name_page.html We will be out there to stump West Brom's growth on Sunday Five in midfield? Throwaway comment? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Oh good, he sounds terrified again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lush Vlad Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/newcastle-united/nufc-news//tm_headline=pardew-s-respect-for-west-brom-manager-hodgson%26method=full%26objectid=30597970%26siteid=72703-name_page.html We will be out there to stump West Brom's growth on Sunday Five in midfield? Throwaway comment? Hoping it's just another one of his silly comments, you know the ones where he tries to come across as clever, but ends up sounding ridiculous http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/561069_296699347068441_153705904701120_735146_399143938_n.jpg :slowclap: :lol: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest icemanblue Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 That's for the pen, isn't it? Must have felt a right tit when we missed it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BlacknWhiteArmy Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 "What are you looking at, you cunt?" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Haris Vuckic Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Excellent Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilko Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 gan on pards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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