TaylorJ_01 Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 from "we was bad" to "I would mad". Grim times. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nufc4eva Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/john-carver-would-mad-not-8380476 In the game against Burnley, I thought for 45 minutes we played some really good football. The physical data has since come back and Burnley overran us. We had no legs in the team. And so it begins. I mean, continues. I am speechless "I think we played well but these numbers here say we didn't so we must play more grafters." I didn't need to look at "physical data" stats whatthefuckever, I just used my eyes and watched the game and noticed they were all over us. I hate the way they rely on the data when all they need to do is open their fucking eyes. The data is useful perhaps for deep troubleshooting where something has gone wrong, however most our problems are simple ad basic organisation, tactical mistakes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueStar Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 "The analysis has come back and we definitely lost" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mistle17 Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Data is very useful in performance analysis, but to undermine its value looking for how far people ran just defeats the point of it (in this case). Use that data for preseason ffs. In a match you look for why and when players run- that's something data can't accurately define. Of course why would we want to look at passes failed/completed, opposition crosses, our possession in defensive and attacking 1/3....f***ing dinosaur. People like JC keep the English disease rampant in the game at the top level. Possibly the saddest thing about what he said is that a lot of our fans will lap that up and think, 'Aye, he's got the passion like, making sure people proper graft man'. f*** off. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
huss9 Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 now blaming the players for saying they were injured for the cup game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/john-carver-would-mad-not-8380476 In the game against Burnley, I thought for 45 minutes we played some really good football. The physical data has since come back and Burnley overran us. We had no legs in the team. And so it begins. I mean, continues. I am speechless "I think we played well but these numbers here say we didn't so we must play more grafters." I actually can't find a way to rationalise that quote. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Even seeing this thread near the top fills me with dread. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nufc4eva Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Data is very useful in performance analysis, but to undermine its value looking for how far people ran just defeats the point of it (in this case). Use that data for preseason ffs. In a match you look for why and when players run- that's something data can't accurately define. Of course why would we want to look at passes failed/completed, opposition crosses, our possession in defensive and attacking 1/3....f***ing dinosaur. People like JC keep the English disease rampant in the game at the top level. Possibly the saddest thing about what he said is that a lot of our fans will lap that up and think, 'Aye, he's got the passion like, making sure people proper graft man'. f*** off. Football is a simple game made complicated by fuckers like this relying on stats etc while as you say ignoring the passing etc. Watch a few of our games and the cause of our problems are evident, we have very little width, shit concentration, very little movement / disrupting shape of opposition, certain players with a lack of technical ability such as Williamson, Dummett, Tiote, Gouffran, Riviere. From a tactical point of view we don't have support for the front man / closer support when players on the ball and don't compact when the opposition have the ball, in addition our high pressing is garbage. We did in the past press high up and forced mistakes - not all the time but quite a few times it was effective, now we run around like headless chickens. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
binnsy Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 i don't need a computer to see we got overran against Burnley i saw it perfectly well from my seat in the Gallowgate end. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ads Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/john-carver-would-mad-not-8380476 In the game against Burnley, I thought for 45 minutes we played some really good football. The physical data has since come back and Burnley overran us. We had no legs in the team. And so it begins. I mean, continues. Good lord If this was happening at another club it'd be hilarious. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
midds Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 "Davide Santon's midfield performance [against Chelsea] . . . forget about what it looked like to the naked eye, his stats were very good, which is great news. It gives us a player we can put in there now. I mean, it's unreal what he gets away with saying. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Man, that data quote from Carver has got me terrified. Not only do we need to make sure he doesn't get the job, but he needs to be banished from the club forever afterwards. He's a crazy person. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtype Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Data is very useful in performance analysis, but to undermine its value looking for how far people ran just defeats the point of it (in this case). Use that data for preseason ffs. In a match you look for why and when players run- that's something data can't accurately define. Of course why would we want to look at passes failed/completed, opposition crosses, our possession in defensive and attacking 1/3....f***ing dinosaur. People like JC keep the English disease rampant in the game at the top level. Possibly the saddest thing about what he said is that a lot of our fans will lap that up and think, 'Aye, he's got the passion like, making sure people proper graft man'. f*** off. Football is a simple game made complicated by f***ers like this relying on stats etc while as you say ignoring the passing etc. Watch a few of our games and the cause of our problems are evident, we have very little width, s*** concentration, very little movement / disrupting shape of opposition, certain players with a lack of technical ability such as Williamson, Dummett, Tiote, Gouffran, Riviere. From a tactical point of view we don't have support for the front man / closer support when players on the ball and don't compact when the opposition have the ball, in addition our high pressing is garbage. We did in the past press high up and forced mistakes - not all the time but quite a few times it was effective, now we run around like headless chickens. The cliche "football is a simple game" is simply not true. If anything it's too complex for analytics. Twenty-two players on a wide pitch in a contstant state of movement, instantaneous transition between defense and attack, an incredibly diversity of inteterdependent actions that are near-impossible to turn into discrete datapoints... One of the reasons advanced statistics haven't made much headway in the game yet is because it's so hard to develop powerful model. In reality the sort of statistics that are in widespread use by todays clubs are remarkably simple. (e.g. Passing percentages, distance covered, heat maps) there is no reason whatsoever for traditionalist fans to fear these things like they're some sort of inscrutable black magic that is ruining the purity of the game. None of this has anything to do with Carver of course. He's just stupid. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
timeEd32 Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Data is very useful in performance analysis, but to undermine its value looking for how far people ran just defeats the point of it (in this case). Use that data for preseason ffs. In a match you look for why and when players run- that's something data can't accurately define. Of course why would we want to look at passes failed/completed, opposition crosses, our possession in defensive and attacking 1/3....f***ing dinosaur. People like JC keep the English disease rampant in the game at the top level. Possibly the saddest thing about what he said is that a lot of our fans will lap that up and think, 'Aye, he's got the passion like, making sure people proper graft man'. f*** off. Football is a simple game made complicated by f***ers like this relying on stats etc while as you say ignoring the passing etc. Watch a few of our games and the cause of our problems are evident, we have very little width, s*** concentration, very little movement / disrupting shape of opposition, certain players with a lack of technical ability such as Williamson, Dummett, Tiote, Gouffran, Riviere. From a tactical point of view we don't have support for the front man / closer support when players on the ball and don't compact when the opposition have the ball, in addition our high pressing is garbage. We did in the past press high up and forced mistakes - not all the time but quite a few times it was effective, now we run around like headless chickens. The cliche "football is a simple game" is simply not true. If anything it's too complex for analytics. Twenty-two players on a wide pitch in a contstant state of movement, instantaneous transition between defense and attack, an incredibly diversity of inteterdependent actions that are near-impossible to turn into discrete datapoints... One of the reasons advanced statistics haven't made much headway in the game yet is because it's so hard to develop powerful model. In reality the sort of statistics that are in widespread use by todays clubs are remarkably simple. (e.g. Passing percentages, distance covered, heat maps) there is no reason whatsoever for traditionalist fans to fear these things like they're some sort of inscrutable black magic that is ruining the purity of the game. None of this has anything to do with Carver of course. He's just stupid. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NG32 Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/john-carver-would-mad-not-8380476 In the game against Burnley, I thought for 45 minutes we played some really good football. The physical data has since come back and Burnley overran us. We had no legs in the team. And so it begins. I mean, continues. Good lord If this was happening at another club it'd be hilarious. Oh lord, he need a stats guy to prove to him we were being over run. utter nonesense. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memphis Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 I think Oldtype said it well a few posts earlier. Data is a tool, and like any tool, it can be useful or destructive. If you use a hammer to nail your nails as you build a lovely home, that's great. If you use that hammer to destroy things, well, that's not good. The hammer is the same. It's how it's used that changes. Performance analysis is vital. You've got to find a way to determine if your players are doing what they need to be doing for you independent of the scoreline. You've also got to be able to find a way to analyse scouted players relative to their league to make a determination as to whether or not, like Ayoze, they can make the step up. It won't be perfect, but it can help. You can find potentially undervalued players using data analysis far more efficiently than sending out scouts haphazardly. But you still need to watch them play and talk with them to determine if they fit your club criteria both mentally and physically. Using analytics doesn't replace watching the matches, it merely bolsters your ability to analyse the performance. Teams can and should always use data and their eyes in concert. But you've got to have people in charge using the tools properly. Obviously handing over analytic data to Carver is akin to handing Donkey Kong a sledgehammer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David28 Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Obviously handing over analytic data to Carver is akin to handing Donkey Kong a sledgehammer. But Donkey Kong can use a hammer http://image.dhgate.com/albu_314771501_00-1.0x0/super-mario-pvc-donkey-kong-action-figures.jpg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memphis Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 He can! But not to build things. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ads Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 He can! But not to build things. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Collage Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Even seeing this thread near the top fills me with dread. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David28 Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 He can! But not to build things. :lol: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ads Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 The beauty of that anaology is that John Carver could quite easily be mistaken for Donkey Kong. Steve Stone plays the part of Diddy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorJ_01 Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 The fact that Stone's head is being used for anything other than a world globe drinks holder is a travesty. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Crooks Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 The beauty of that anaology is that John Carver could quite easily be mistaken for Donkey Kong. Steve Stone plays the part of Diddy. Diddy deserve to be a coach and diddy fuck. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ads Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 The beauty of that anaology is that John Carver could quite easily be mistaken for Donkey Kong. Steve Stone plays the part of Diddy. Diddy deserve to be a coach and diddy fuck. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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