Dave Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 The manager's been working with them both for nearly a year, why do they still occupy the same space in his preferred formation? It's hilarious how they both run to the center of the box. Lemmings. I'd imagine in training at a PL football club one might be instructed to come to the near post or come short/drift to the edge of the box. Not on your nelly! Straight to the middle. It simply adds to the evidence that we don't focus much on attacking and expressing ourselves as a team. Almost every manager that has beaten us has mentioned how it was such an achievement because of the striking firepower we can field, and yet there seems to be little or no progression in their partnership over the last 11 months. That's on the management team. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 The manager's been working with them both for nearly a year, why do they still occupy the same space in his preferred formation? It's hilarious how they both run to the center of the box. Lemmings. I'd imagine in training at a PL football club one might be instructed to come to the near post or come short/drift to the edge of the box. Not on your nelly! Straight to the middle. I can't see how it can't be too hard not to simply watch what the other is doing and make sure your not standing on top of each other. One goes short, one goes long etc. The fact Pardew hasn't sorted it out is a farce. How can this be solely attributed to the manager? Should the players themselves not know they need to do that? Or do they simply do it because the manager, supposedly, hasn't said otherwise? These two are Ronin if I've ever clapped eyes on one. These here are renegade Samurai who have broken with the training. They shoot from anywhere with either foot on instinct. They need harnessing to the cause. The manager simply either doesn't know how to or doesn't think it's important. It's being going on for so long it's ridiculous. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 PS it's not just the strikers, it's the balls we put in and the overall pattern of play when we're trying to score. Aside from the floated ball to Williamson, expecting Ben Arfa to do something special or expecting Simpson to morph into Gary Neville, I'm struggling to think of what ours is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Oh no, wait. Run fast and win headers, that's it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 PS it's not just the strikers, it's the balls we put in and the overall pattern of play when we're trying to score. Aside from the floated ball to Williamson, expecting Ben Arfa to do something special or expecting Simpson to morph into Gary Neville, I'm struggling to think of what ours is. Was just about to broaden it to that. It's generally accepted that you can't really play two out and out strikers these days in the PL. One has to be a withdrawn striker like a Michu or a Dempsey who can move around in the space in front of the back four and link moves and add cohesion. I still think Hatem could do that if he was strated centrally and with a license to play it as he sees it. When he starts on the left he's too far away from the dangerous areas and when he starts on the right often 2/3 are at his legs. He should be where the space is in the grey zone where the likes of Michu and Ruiz are thriving. The Pl over the last decade has become far more techinical and this hitting stuff over the top or generally into the box just doesn't cut it anymore. Ba and Hatem are good friends and have an understanding they should start for now with a compact and battling mf behind them keeping it tight with short passes and perhaps Cabaye pulling the strings in that zone. Jol and strangely Rodgers break the pitch up into three or four zones and they have a ball player in each one who is given the ball to move it up into the next zone. With Liv it's Joe Allen and with Fulham it's Ruiz. Jol said in the post match how much Ruiz was missed as they went on their bad run. Our nominated zone masters should be Collo > Cabaye > Hatem. Willo should never be playing the pass out of defence and the same for Tiote in the next zone. They should just give the ball to Collo and Cabaye or Hatem if an early ball is on. This should be drilled on the training ground in 7 v 9 games every fukin day. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanSkÃrare Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 The crossing at Fulham was laughable, more than usual tbh. We got into so many positions and produced absolutley nothing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Have we scored from a cross this season that wasn't put in by Ferguson? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocker Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 The crossing at Fulham was laughable, more than usual tbh. We got into so many positions and produced absolutley nothing. Don't think I've ever seen Simpson cross a ball that hasn't been pennyfloatered through the air. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cp40 Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Very confident that if Keegan had Ba and Cisse at his disposal, they'd both get 20 goals no bother. And Ben Arfa would be tearing the league a new arse AND Marveaux would be starting most games AND Cabaye would be transformed. And the deficit would be history by now, and the eurozone would be completely sorted. they are talking about Keegan being manager not PM, but yeah if he was it would. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hatem garrincha Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 I still think Hatem could do that if he was strated centrally(...) and with a license to play it as he sees it. (...) He should be where the space is in the grey zone(...) Our nominated zone masters should be Collo > Cabaye > Hatem. (I thought Hatem was very good at Fulham when he played centrally in the second half. Seriously, I think Jol was happy to see him be replaced. ) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smal Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Have we scored from a cross this season that wasn't put in by Ferguson? Cabaye's stunner vs Liverpool was crossed in by HBA. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoot Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Have we scored from a cross this season that wasn't put in by Ferguson? Nope. There was a stat out a few weeks ago that we had scored just 1 goal out of our last 270 corners. That total number of corners will be greater now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilson Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 The manager's been working with them both for nearly a year, why do they still occupy the same space in his preferred formation? It's hilarious how they both run to the center of the box. Lemmings. I'd imagine in training at a PL football club one might be instructed to come to the near post or come short/drift to the edge of the box. Not on your nelly! Straight to the middle. Neville was stating it as a plus point how they follow each other on Monday iirc, pointing out the goal against Wigan where 'if Ba didn't put it in Cisse would have' Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lush Vlad Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 He said cross, not corner.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 The manager's been working with them both for nearly a year, why do they still occupy the same space in his preferred formation? It's hilarious how they both run to the center of the box. Lemmings. I'd imagine in training at a PL football club one might be instructed to come to the near post or come short/drift to the edge of the box. Not on your nelly! Straight to the middle. Neville was stating it as a plus point how they follow each other on Monday iirc, pointing out the goal against Wigan where 'if Ba didn't put it in Cisse would have' It's a very basic approach to playing in a front two that you stay close to your partner. The subtlety is not actually making the same moves. And when the ball is wide or at a set piece, don't make the same run near/back post etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilson Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 The crossing at Fulham was laughable, more than usual tbh. We got into so many positions and produced absolutley nothing. Don't think I've ever seen Simpson cross a ball that hasn't been pennyfloatered through the air. so bastard frustrating, must be like training/practice for the opposition. They just know he's going to float it in from the right about 25 yards from the by-line every time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoot Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 He said cross, not corner.... So he did haha. Anyway, that stat for corners is horrendous. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 The manager's been working with them both for nearly a year, why do they still occupy the same space in his preferred formation? It's hilarious how they both run to the center of the box. Lemmings. I'd imagine in training at a PL football club one might be instructed to come to the near post or come short/drift to the edge of the box. Not on your nelly! Straight to the middle. Neville was stating it as a plus point how they follow each other on Monday iirc, pointing out the goal against Wigan where 'if Ba didn't put it in Cisse would have' It's a very basic approach to playing in a front two that you stay close to your partner. The subtlety is not actually making the same moves. And when the ball is wide or at a set piece, don't make the same run near/back post etc. That's complete bollocks. You're meant to give options in or near the box not hold each others hands. Easy to close out the hot zone for the defenders if as they do they run into very similar areas. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 I've heard many coaches and analysts talk about the importance of a strike partnership playing close enough to each other. Sorry it doesn't meet your high standards of opinion though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 £7.5m Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 Despite Ba's monumental goal return and the fact we need to tie him down to a new contract, I would still rather play Cisse as the central figurehead with Ba a bit wider if we are playing one out and out striker. The reason is that I think Cisse has better ball control, better vision and isn't as selfish as Ba is. More often than not you see Ba get the ball when crowded out and instead of waiting for others to join the attack he'll either end up trying to take about 3 people on or will try and score from some impossible position. His first touch at times is inconsistent as well compared to Cisse's, plus we all know about his stamina issues as playing that roll often requires a lot of selfless running and pressing. The best goal scorer we've had for the best part of a decade though so don't get me wrong I think he's class but in the role he's playing at the moment I think he could just do with playing the percentages a bit better and work more for the team. I expect this to go down well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATB Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 Selfish, selfish and selfish again. Doesn´t matter how many goals he scores, I will never really like him. Cisse should, without doubt, play in the middle. That would be the best for the team, which is the most important thing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 Selfish, selfish and selfish again. Doesn´t matter how many goals he scores, I will never really like him. Cisse should, without doubt, play in the middle. That would be the best for the team, which is the most important thing. Aye, not scoring goals will really help our cause. Ba needs to play, his place to lose. Shoehorning Cisse out wide is not the solution though. Bench him and play two real wingers if we are going 4-3-3. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainhaircut Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 Despite Ba's monumental goal return and the fact we need to tie him down to a new contract, I would still rather play Cisse as the central figurehead with Ba a bit wider if we are playing one out and out striker. The reason is that I think Cisse has better ball control, better vision and isn't as selfish as Ba is. More often than not you see Ba get the ball when crowded out and instead of waiting for others to join the attack he'll either end up trying to take about 3 people on or will try and score from some impossible position. His first touch at times is inconsistent as well compared to Cisse's, plus we all know about his stamina issues as playing that roll often requires a lot of selfless running and pressing. The best goal scorer we've had for the best part of a decade though so don't get me wrong I think he's class but in the role he's playing at the moment I think he could just do with playing the percentages a bit better and work more for the team. I expect this to go down well. Agree 100%. His decision making is very very poor and his control is average at best. I'd be playing him wide but try to get him coming off the wing a bit more than he was last year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenBartonCentrePartin Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 sometimes wonder if he's actually on his toes enough. So many times it's played through to him and he's just that one yard away from getting there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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