Super Duper Branko Strupar Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 I've used Wonga before when I've needed (wanted) something off Ebay a few days before I'm paid. Effectively paying an extra 7 quid extra on my purchase was a bit shit, but at least I got it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benwell Lad Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Still don't quite get how advertising their perfectly legal business is preying on the vulnerable. I'd be interested in seeing some stats on where the majority of the money they lend goes but I would imagine that's not freely available. Their service, the amounts they lend and the high charges they levy literally couldn't be any easier to understand; what are they concealing or misleading people with? If the adverts are inappropriate then the ASA should be doing something about it btw. Otherwise, people clearly believe the charges are acceptable or they wouldn't be agreeing to them. Or are we saying that people are so f***ing dense that they need protecting from their own thought processes and decisions? Wonga and the like are obviously charging as much as people are willing to pay. Ultimately what's the difference between doing what they're doing and Apple charging £529 for a phone that costs them £129 to make? Or Nike charging £100 for a pair of trainers that costs them £5 to make? Where do we draw the line between a business making a fair profit and being immoral? I think the issue with these payday loan companies is that they're unreasonable when it comes to those who, either due to stupidity or bad luck, are unable to pay back the amount within the agreed time. So whilst it's reasonable to charge £250 for borrowing £200 for a week, is it really fair to be charging e.g. £600 if the person can't make the repayment until a month after the deadline? It's not like Wonga would turn £200 into £600 by putting the money into a bank. It's undoubtedly extortion. E.g: http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=3279644 To put it in context, if high street banks, mortgage lenders, credit card companies, etc, did this when e.g. going over agreed limits or being unable to make payments due to unforseen circumstances, all hell would break lose, even though the exact same arguements of "it's your fault for not being more responsible" could be used. Instead, the majority of us benefit from a degree of protection provided by various regulatory bodies/the government/good practice/etc when it comes to these areas (mortgage holidays, lenders being required to provide assistance where possible, capped overdraft or late payment fees, etc etc). I don't think Wonga are an evil company, or that they should be banned. Just that there needs to be a bit more regulation to protect people who do fall foul of these lenders. Fair comments. I suppose the payday companies would say that all of the extortionate fees are the price of getting a quick no-questions-asked loan in the first place. Which again, people clearly want. And obviously it's the way they try to enforce getting the money back on time. Following on from my earlier comment, it'd be really interesting to see how much of their operating profit is made up of charges from people failing to pay the initial loan back on time. Risk is the primary factor in setting any form of credit or interest payment. Just ask the govenments of Greece,Spain,Ireland,Portugal etc... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Still don't quite get how advertising their perfectly legal business is preying on the vulnerable. I'd be interested in seeing some stats on where the majority of the money they lend goes but I would imagine that's not freely available. Their service, the amounts they lend and the high charges they levy literally couldn't be any easier to understand; what are they concealing or misleading people with? If the adverts are inappropriate then the ASA should be doing something about it btw. Otherwise, people clearly believe the charges are acceptable or they wouldn't be agreeing to them. Or are we saying that people are so f***ing dense that they need protecting from their own thought processes and decisions? Wonga and the like are obviously charging as much as people are willing to pay. Ultimately what's the difference between doing what they're doing and Apple charging £529 for a phone that costs them £129 to make? Or Nike charging £100 for a pair of trainers that costs them £5 to make? Where do we draw the line between a business making a fair profit and being immoral? I think the issue with these payday loan companies is that they're unreasonable when it comes to those who, either due to stupidity or bad luck, are unable to pay back the amount within the agreed time. So whilst it's reasonable to charge £250 for borrowing £200 for a week, is it really fair to be charging e.g. £600 if the person can't make the repayment until a month after the deadline? It's not like Wonga would turn £200 into £600 by putting the money into a bank. It's undoubtedly extortion. E.g: http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=3279644 To put it in context, if high street banks, mortgage lenders, credit card companies, etc, did this when e.g. going over agreed limits or being unable to make payments due to unforseen circumstances, all hell would break lose, even though the exact same arguements of "it's your fault for not being more responsible" could be used. Instead, the majority of us benefit from a degree of protection provided by various regulatory bodies/the government/good practice/etc when it comes to these areas (mortgage holidays, lenders being required to provide assistance where possible, capped overdraft or late payment fees, etc etc). I don't think Wonga are an evil company, or that they should be banned. Just that there needs to be a bit more regulation to protect people who do fall foul of these lenders. I agree with your last paragraph. I don't understand why Wonga are being singled out. Mortgage lenders charge for missed DD payments, missing a payment, and being in arrears. It all accrues interest that, although comparitively low, is calculated daily and on the mortgage balance, which is obviously huge. Unsecured borrowing always has higher rates of interest, and coupled with the the loans being comparitively low, it makes sense for them to hike their profit margin. People don't like it, but it's regulated. I can't imagine those that abhor it would prefer the alternative. Also, customers have to earn payment holidays by making a certain amount of payments in a row btw. Borrowing back on overpayments is also subject to scrutinous affordability checks since the recession hit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benwell Lad Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Anyone ever had to pay for an un-arranged overdraft with EPL sponsors Barclays ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
midds Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 A few years ago I was always just a little short at the end of the month. Not by much, maybe a £30 grocery shop a few days before payday. Now the bank account I had had a 'buffer' overdraft which let me go overdrawn but the charge was a flat £25. Had Wonga been around back then then I reckon they would have charged me about a fiver a pop whereas HSBC took their £25 charge every month for a year or so until I got myself straight. Not saying I like being associated with them but they would have actually saved me money in the past. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 A few years ago I was always just a little short at the end of the month. Not by much, maybe a £30 grocery shop a few days before payday. Now the bank account I had had a 'buffer' overdraft which let me go overdrawn but the charge was a flat £25. Had Wonga been around back then then I reckon they would have charged me about a fiver a pop whereas HSBC took their £25 charge every month for a year or so until I got myself straight. Not saying I like being associated with them but they would have actually saved me money in the past. Poster child status achieved. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUFC_Chris Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 I do think we are copping too much flack for this in the nationals. The Independent are running a story tomorrow re the British Muslim council advising our Muslim players not to wear the new sponsor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
midds Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 A few years ago I was always just a little short at the end of the month. Not by much, maybe a £30 grocery shop a few days before payday. Now the bank account I had had a 'buffer' overdraft which let me go overdrawn but the charge was a flat £25. Had Wonga been around back then then I reckon they would have charged me about a fiver a pop whereas HSBC took their £25 charge every month for a year or so until I got myself straight. Not saying I like being associated with them but they would have actually saved me money in the past. Poster child status achieved. You know what I mean though. I would have been cheaper. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 A few years ago I was always just a little short at the end of the month. Not by much, maybe a £30 grocery shop a few days before payday. Now the bank account I had had a 'buffer' overdraft which let me go overdrawn but the charge was a flat £25. Had Wonga been around back then then I reckon they would have charged me about a fiver a pop whereas HSBC took their £25 charge every month for a year or so until I got myself straight. Not saying I like being associated with them but they would have actually saved me money in the past. Poster child status achieved. You know what I mean though. I would have been cheaper. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 I do think we are copping too much flack for this in the nationals. The Independent are running a story tomorrow re the British Muslim council advising our Muslim players not to wear the new sponsor. They are usually so chilled out as well, not like them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUFC_Chris Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Why would they ring the bloody Muslim council and ask them what they thought of payday loans unless they were blatantly s*** stirring? I'm not thrilled with the sponsor and don't agree with the business model but we are copping way more than we should be, more than the Football League, Hearts & Blackpool combined. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GM Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Wonder if anyone else here is cynical enough to think that rebranding the stadium as Sports Direct Arena was always part of the plan, just so that whichever shitty company that was prepared to sponsor us could play the positive PR card of magnanimously handing back the stadium's real name to the fans.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Duper Branko Strupar Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Wonder if anyone else here is cynical enough to think that rebranding the stadium as Sports Direct Arena was always part of the plan, just so that whichever shitty company that was prepared to sponsor us could play the positive PR card of magnanimously handing back the stadium's real name to the fans.... Manko Branko @MankoBranko 8h Was the whole SportsDirect@ renaming debacle an elaborate ploy to appease fans upon confirmation of an unattractive sponsor? #NUFC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdckelly Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Why would they ring the bloody Muslim council and ask them what they thought of payday loans unless they were blatantly s*** stirring? I'm not thrilled with the sponsor and don't agree with the business model but we are copping way more than we should be, more than the Football League, Hearts & Blackpool combined. Impressive isn't it, don't recall this level of outrage when Blackpool were in the prem sponsored by Wonga or any outrage whatsoever that a football club dared associate themselves with it. Probably just because its internationals Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stifler Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Muslims, at least ones that hold every aspect of the Quran to heart don't believe in loans with interest at all, when applying for a loan from a bank they actually get a higher purchase instead. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Muslims, at least ones that hold every aspect of the Quran to heart don't believe in loans with interest at all, when applying for a loan from a bank they actually get a higher purchase instead. Who told you that? Robin Van Persia? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stifler Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Muslims, at least ones that hold every aspect of the Quran to heart don't believe in loans with interest at all, when applying for a loan from a bank they actually get a higher purchase instead. Who told you that? Robin Van Persia? Something I've heard. Honestly if say for example they are wanting the money to buy a car then they bank will buy the car for them, then charge a premium on top of it (which is the same as what they would pay in APR) and then they would have to pay a set fee over the duration of the loan. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlufPurdi Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 I'm surprised that these loan sharks are even legal, the so called payday loans must be the only form of loan which doesn't have a cooling off period. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtype Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Well, at least they know how to do PR. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deuce Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 This fucking thread man. Let's rename as "The Ethics of Microfinance" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzzieMandias Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Newcastle's Muslim stars told: Don't play in new 'Wonga' tops Controversy grows over £24m shirt deal with moneylenders as FA plans talks Newcastle United's £24m shirt sponsorship deal with Wonga was engulfed in fresh controversy last night when the club's Muslim players were warned that wearing the new shirts would infringe Sharia law. The intervention from the Muslim Council of Britain will heap further pressure on the club as it seeks to deflect widespread criticism after unveiling a four-year deal with the short-term loan company. Of the Newcastle team who took the field against Manchester United on Sunday, four are practising Muslims – Demba Ba, Papiss Cissé, Cheick Tioté and Hatem Ben Arfa. ... Whilst it is accepted that Wonga have not behaved improperly it came in for further criticism from the Muslim Council of Britain. Under Sharia law, a Muslim is not allowed to benefit from lending money or receiving money from someone. This means that earning interest is not allowed. To comply, interest is not paid on Islamic savings or current accounts or applied to Islamic mortgages. Shaykh Ibrahim Mogra, assistant secretary general of the MCB, said: "There are two aspects to this. We have the rulings of the religious law and we have the individual's choice and decision on how they want to follow or not follow that rule. "The idea is to protect the vulnerable and the needy from exploitation by the rich and powerful. When they are lending and are charging large amounts of interest, it means the poor will have short-term benefit from the loan but long-term difficulty in paying it back because the rate of interest is not something they can keep up with. The Islamic system is based on a non-interest-based system of transaction." Frédéric Kanouté, the former Spurs striker, refused to wear the 888.com logo of the gambling website when he was with Seville in La Liga because of his religious beliefs. He was allowed to play games for Seville with an unbranded shirt but had to wear the logo on his training equipment. "Freddie was allowed to wear a top without the 888.com and that is a reasonable request to be made by the player," added Mogra. "Assuming all four are on the pitch at the same time, if you have seven out of 11 [who have the advertising on their shirts] you have sufficient coverage. It is not asking too much, I believe." The Football Association entered the debate when its general secretary, Alex Horne, expressed his reservations about Newcastle's deal. "The Football Supporters' Federation of Britain told us in no uncertain terms it's not appropriate, [sunderland non-executive vice-president] David Miliband has told us he does not think it is appropriate," Horne said. "We are talking to the leagues on Friday about it. If you consider it as in the category of things that are inappropriate for children like gambling and alcohol, it feels like it is in that category to me." http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/newcastles-muslim-stars-told-dont-play-in-new-wonga-tops-8204411.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
loki679 Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Just four of our five best players then. Bet Wonga will be chuffed with that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Yet they were ok to wear virgin money which charges interest etc ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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