Dogawful Officiating - Dave Coote suspended

[Hanshithispantz]

I mean it's fair enough but the refs still need to properly implament any new changes.

[Hanshithispantz]

I think a yellow is fine for a challenge like that though.

[Kid Icarus]

20 minutes ago, joeyt said:

I hate tackles like that. Xhaka and Shelvey do it all the time.

 

Pleased it was given as a red

 

Fair enough if you hate them, but I guarantee you'll change your opinion if it becomes the norm and it's still absolute bullshit to make them the norm half way through the season with no warning. 

 

 

Edited March 18, 2022 by Kid Icarus

[Colos Short and Curlies]

Got the man with 2 feet

Both feet off the ground

First contact nearer the knee than ankle.

 

There was enough there to make it a red and if that had been the first card colour only Everton fans would have complained. Its VAR and the clear and obvious rule once again that's the issue

[Kid Icarus]

All of those things literally aren't true though

 

It was with one foot, leading with one foot, and nowhere near his knee. 

 

 

Edited March 18, 2022 by Kid Icarus

[midds]

I think the fact he was so far from the ball went against him. At the time of contact the ball is barely in the same picture, it wasn't even a tackle in the sense he had no intention of doing anything other than bringing him down in full flight. Cynical as they get and fuck him for doing so. 

[ponsaelius]

You get tackles like that where it's blatantly cynical but they're at least close to the ball to make an argument it wasn't deliberate

 

Allan had no intention of doing so, was targeting only the man, and was off the ground when he made contact. I would have had absolutely no issue with it being a red card in real time tbh - but it was massively borderline and thus can't believe they reversed the original decision once the ref had said yellow.

 

 

Edited March 18, 2022 by ponsaelius

[joeyt]

Everton are appealing it

[Guest neesy111]

3 hours ago, Colos Short and Curlies said:

Got the man with 2 feet

First contact nearer the knee than ankle.

 

You need to watch it again.  It was nowhere these 2.

[Wullie]

4 minutes ago, ManDoon said:

Imagine that tackle, in normal possession, not on a break away. I don’t understand how these tackles are allowed , purely because it’s a tactically smart thing to do? You can get red mistiming a tackle. That’s as blatant a foul as you’re going to see, fast, off the ground, dangerous, no

Intent to play the ball. 

 

I don't think you can judge a tackle independent of the receiver. If you fly in on someone like that while they're standing still, that's much more likely to be dangerous than someone moving at the speed ASM was, where you're highly unlikely to catch a standing leg full force.

[Kid Icarus]

The only arguments I've seen for it being a red card are based on imagining a different situation. 

[Papavasiliou]

25 minutes ago, ManDoon said:

Yeah but that’s because the official stance for some odd reason is that “tactical” fouls only deserve a yellow, even if they are reckless as fuck like the one last night. 

 

Zonal Marking had the right take.

 

 

 

It's a type of foul I really fucking hate, no matter what side of the pitch it happens on. If you can't stop someone within the laws of the game then you've been beaten. That doesn't give you carte blanche to hack people down.

[Geordie Ahmed]

It's a red for me, not even contentious imo

 

I've never been a fan of the tactical/cynical foul anyway but usually when it's done it's a lot of subtle and certainly not as dangerous as Allan

 

He goes in with such pace, ball long gone and at one stage he does have both feet off the ground and he also catches him on the ankle

 

 

Edited March 18, 2022 by Geordie Ahmed

[Thiago]

I honestly think if he'd slid and not lunged he'd have received a yellow. It's the fact he leaves the ground to make contact that causes the red. 

[Hanshithispantz]

2 hours ago, Wullie said:

 

I don't think you can judge a tackle independent of the receiver. If you fly in on someone like that while they're standing still, that's much more likely to be dangerous than someone moving at the speed ASM was, where you're highly unlikely to catch a standing leg full force.

This. 

 

Again if people want these challenges to be reds I can see the argument for it, but before yesterday it's a straight forward yellow like.

[The College Dropout]

2 hours ago, ManDoon said:

Maybe so but it’s definitely in the “reckless/out of control/endangering an opponent” category imo. And if your only intention is take someone’s legs I don’t think that should be encouraged.
 

Either way I don’t know of any situation on the pitch where you can literally hack someone with decent force, with no attempt to look like you’re playing the ball, and not get a red card. I don’t personally think that should be allowed. For me at least I’ve always wanted them to be punished more harshly. 

Agreed.

 

I've said a lot of those should be red cards in the past. Pulling/holding the shirt or a simple trip - yellow is fine. Fernandinho is the best at these and we do it a lot as well.

 

But there's ones like the Allan one - where the player goes diving in - often off the ground or from behind and completely wipe out the player. Zero attempt to get the ball, often high up or from behind to ensure the opponent is stopped. How is that not a red card? Because it's a counter attack, that makes it ok? You can't come sliding in so far away from the ball and not get a red. It used to be a red wherever it was on the pitch on FIFA back in the day because you've not even tried to get the ball.

 

Xhaka got one against Swansea some years back. It wasn't even much of a counter attack which is why I think he got a red. He's a good metre away from the ball and slides in catches the attacker on the back of the heels. Red. Good.

[Geordie Ahmed]

I remember Arter doing a not too dissimilar challenge on Joselu I think, a few years back and I felt that should have been a red

[The College Dropout]

2 hours ago, Papavasiliou said:

 

Zonal Marking had the right take.

 

 

 

It's a type of foul I really fucking hate, no matter what side of the pitch it happens on. If you can't stop someone within the laws of the game then you've been beaten. That doesn't give you carte blanche to hack people down.

 

 

I've always agreed with this. The  latter comments about there's a difference between a trip / shirt grab and literally doing anything possible to stop to cause a foul like lunging in dangerously.

 

If that's a tackle in good faith e.g. loose ball, ball bouncing and ASM gets on to it just in time.... it's still probably a red. Strong yellow at least. The fact the ball was nowhere near and it was cynical makes it more of a red than less.

[The College Dropout]

Also tactical fouls result in less goals in football. The transition and athleticism of players these days means a good tactical fouls can save a team several points per season. I would like all tackles where there is zero intent to win the ball to be a red card or specifically, "tactical" fouls becoming red cards. They only happen when there's a good (but not yet materialised) chance of a clear-cut opportunity. But as it stands if it's tactical/cynical + reckless it should be a red.

 

I also think refs should be mroe away when a team is deliberately kicking a particular player. It may have been Mou or Fergie that I first saw employ the tactic of rotating who kicks the player(s) that cause the most danger. e.g. giving away clear but not yellow card tackles repeatedly to the same player(s) so that nobody is punished but they can kick the lad out of the game. Notice it on foul 3/4 and just book whoever does it next.

 

 

Edited March 18, 2022 by The College Dropout

[Stottie]

I didn't think it was especially dangerous play and would have been happy with the ref's decision in real time.

 

It was definitely cynical, but tactical fouls aren't subject to special treatment. Many of us will have thought their goalscoring attack should have been stopped in similarly cynical way.

[Ben]

The ref was getting stick off the blue makems last but I think managed it well 

[Pata]

I don't think there's anyone that disagrees that tackles like that should be reds but it's a fact that they've never been and inconsistency is the worst thing in refereeing. 

[Dr Venkman]

15 hours ago, Pata said:

I don't think there's anyone that disagrees that tackles like that should be reds but it's a fact that they've never been and inconsistency is the worst thing in refereeing. 

Based on this thread I think there are a quite a few.

 

If you do that in Sunday league you’re getting jawed. Make that the punishment.

[Happinesstan]

On 18/03/2022 at 09:10, joeyt said:

Absolutely no intention to do anything except bring ASM down and was way off the ground

 

If ASM didn't try and ride the tackle it could have really injured him

Exactly. Without ASM's little skip, he'd likely be clattering him just below the knee.

[Cf]

I suppose one way of looking at a tactical foul is a quick shirt pull or little trip is probably harmless enough to the player. 

 

If though you're lunging in with no effort to play the ball and you're just looking to get the man then it's verging on assault. 

 

Football is obviously a contact sport and injuries will happen. But it has to be played in good faith, and when tackles go in they need to be genuine attempts to play the ball and also not be dangerous. 

 

The Allan tackle wasn't the worst thing I've seen in the world danger wise bit couple that with the fact no attempt made to play the ball then red seems more than justified to me.