Dogawful Officiating - Dave Coote suspended

[morpeth mag]

I thought it was great that the FA / EPL didn't charge Moyes / Rice / Howe for their comments about referees.

Of course it means they should charge Vieira and Tuchel for their bizarre post game comments backing the inept/corrupt officials. Bringing the game into disrepute.

 

[beardsleymagic]

18 minutes ago, bowlingcrofty said:

 

So “we know we’re shit but wait another 3 months and hopefully it’ll get better”

 

oh and by the way…. Tough shit about all the wrong calls you’re getting 

[The Prophet]

13 minutes ago, bowlingcrofty said:

 

 

Phew, that's me reassured. Say no more!

[teohgk]

“Tough luck, it’ll get better soon” 

What a bunch of cunts 

[Kid Icarus]

Howard Webb doesn't really alleviate any concerns like. He's not known for having a Man United bias for nothing.

[huss9]

Former boss of the PGMOL, ex-Premier League referee Keith Hackett, called the VAR decisions made on Saturday "horrendous" and said the decisions of top officials were having a negative knock-on effect on grassroots referees.

"We are in the fourth season of using VAR in the Premier League and we are making a pig's ear of it," Hackett told BBC Radio 5 Live.

"At the moment it is awful and it's having a knock-on effect, making life very difficult for referees at grassroots level when they see their senior colleagues fouling up in such a bad way.

"It's not just the decision on the field, it's the impact on spectators who are now saying to me the game is corrupt. The game is not corrupt, what we have is a poor delivery of VAR in this country that needs to be rectified now."

[Hovagod]

Outside of here and a few other forums, the only media I really use to follow football is the James Richardson podcast and the Game supplement in The Times. Today, they both seemed desperate to squash any controversy about our disallowed goal- The Times outright saying it was rightly disallowed, and noted arsehole Rory Smith saying that ours was the least controversial of the ‘Three’. 
 

I wholeheartedly believe that Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone, Dianna was killed because the driver was pissed, and that 9/11 was a bunch of pissed off terrorists. But still. 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

1 hour ago, OCK said:

 

If you think someinthing is an orange card then its clearly not a yellow card, so it must be a red. Just wankers not wanting to say big name players should have been sent off.

That’s not really logic.

[Guest]

Sorry Spock

[Pata]

27 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

Howard Webb doesn't really alleviate any concerns like. He's not known for having a Man United bias for nothing.

I’m sure he can help with the systematic problems in the usage of VAR in England with his experience with MLS. I still don’t understand who let Riley to come up with his system. 
 

VAR should be able to tell the referee that you might want to take another look on something and let the referee make the decision. Not this current system where VAR makes the decision and the on field ref makes the symbolic jog to the screen to approve. I haven’t seen the Oliver accident last weekend but fair play to him, I’m sure he’s frustrated with the current system too.

 

I also don’t understand why the ref can’t raise his hand himself and say he needs another look. VAR has no idea if the ref on the pitch missed something, why can’t the main ref make the call on what he missed?

 

Once again I believe it will get better but something has to be done with the people who are watching the screens. Every sport has been able to make it work so there’s no reason why it wouldn’t work on football. I often read that football is a free flowing game but it’s just as much stop-start as any other sport, clock just keeps rolling.
 

I think the crying about offsides is largely irrelevant and naive. @Yorkie wants to draw the line (pun not intended) on attacker getting unfair advantage but where do you draw the line there? It would only become way more messy than it is right now and the arguments would move on to subjective matters which VAR already struggles mightily with. It’s irritating to be in offside by a toenail but human eye can’t make the calls in real time and I don’t see any other option. I really hope the new technology works as it should as on paper it sounds really good.

 

 

Edited September 5, 2022 by Pata

[Happinesstan]

1 minute ago, Pata said:

I’m sure he can help with the systematic problems in the usage of VAR in England. I still don’t understand who let Riley to come up with his system. 
 

VAR should be able to tell the referee that you might want to take another look on something and let the referee make the decision. Not this current system where VAR makes the decision and the on field ref makes the symbolic jog to the screen to approve. I haven’t seen the Oliver accident last weekend but fair play to him, I’m sure he’s frustrated with the current system too.

 

I also don’t understand why the ref can’t raise his hand himself and say he needs another look. VAR has no idea if the ref on the pitch missed something, why can’t the main ref make the call on what he missed?

 

Once again I believe it will get better but something has to be done with the people who are watching the screens. Every sport has been able to make it work so there’s no reason why it wouldn’t work on football. I often read that football is a free flowing game but it’s just as much stop-start as any other sport, clock just keeps rolling.
 

I think the crying about offsides is largely irrelevant and naive. @Yorkie wants to draw the line (pun not intended) on attacker getting unfair advantage but where do you draw the line there? It would only become way more messy than it is right now and the arguments would move on to subjective matters which VAR already struggles mightily with. It’s irritating to be offside by a toenail but human eye can’t make the calls in real time and I don’t see any other option. I really hope the new technology works as it should as on paper it sounds really good.

The offside rule has been universally understood by all, for generations, as giving the benefit of the doubt to the attacker. VAR ignores that completely.

[Pata]

10 minutes ago, Happinesstan said:

The offside rule has been universally understood by all, for generations, as giving the benefit of the doubt to the attacker. VAR ignores that completely.

If an attacker gets 10cm leeway but is ahead by 11cm the crying would be just the same. You have to draw the line somewhere.

[Happinesstan]

1 minute ago, Pata said:

If an attacker gets 10cm leeway but is ahead by 11cm the crying would be just the same. You have to draw the line somewhere.

It's simple, and has already been discussed, you make the doubt about when the ball was struck, use the frame before the one in which contact is confirmed.

[Pata]

Personally I would draw the lines from the feet as I’m sceptical you can draw accurate and consistent lines from shoulders but it is what it is.

[FloydianMag]

It would be interesting to hear from @Milanistaon how VAR is operating in Serie A. Any major controversial decisions?

 

 

Edited September 5, 2022 by FloydianMag

[JB]

1 hour ago, Kid Icarus said:

Howard Webb doesn't really alleviate any concerns like. He's not known for having a Man United bias for nothing.

 

If you wanted to encourage conspiracy theories then appointing Mike Riley and Howard Webb in succession would be a good way to do it.

[morpeth mag]

42 minutes ago, Pata said:

Personally I would draw the lines from the feet as I’m sceptical you can draw accurate and consistent lines from shoulders but it is what it is.

At the world cup they are going to track 18 points for each player in real time to speed the process more accurate and faster. No need for assistant refs to make line calls.

[HaydnNUFC]

I'll personally never subscribe to the corruption patter but I can see why people believe it given the amount of shit the cuntbag 6 get, can reel off loads against Man City alone that has gone against us in the last decade. But I do think it's sheer incompetence and accountability has to be brought in.

 

Such a howler like what Mason made on Saturday has to render a suspension from refereeing for a period or just a sacking a la managers imo. At the top level you simply cannot make such a gargantuan error on game changing scenarios such as a goals like Saturday and when the evidence is all there to see and you're the only person in the world along with a few wankers who support Palace that don't think that that was a goal, I'm sorry. Get to fuck. The referee (who was fucking shite anyhow btw) who is new to the PL has had pressure put on by a senior referee to see a similar view. The on field referee and his assistants originally gave the goal, same with the on field referees for the West Ham goal, so less pressure from VAR or more assertiveness from on field refs is required. 

 

To achieve that though big reform is needed in regard to how VAR is operated and how they train on field referees. I don't think Howard Webb coming back in will change this any way way though so I'm not holding my breath.

 

 

Edited September 5, 2022 by HaydnNUFC

[Abacus]

1 hour ago, Pata said:

I also don’t understand why the ref can’t raise his hand himself and say he needs another look. VAR has no idea if the ref on the pitch missed something, why can’t the main ref make the call on what he missed?

 

Agree with this. If he hasn't had a clear view of something or just isn't sure about a critical call like a penalty, then he should have the option to decide to look again.

 

I also wonder if there could be some merit in having a cricket style review system instead of a second VAR ref. E.g. by the captain or the manager having a limited number of reviews if they think a decision is wrong at the time, for penalties, red cards etc.

 

Those challenges could be shown on screen in the ground for the crowd, not just have a random "VAR checking possible handball" type message, because at the end of the day it's supposed to be a live spectator sport.

 

That way, VAR doesn't need some incompetent referee second guessing decisions - just a video operator who shows what is asked, for the main ref to decide on.

[Abacus]

I can already think of problems with that, now I think of it. Ignore me.

[Pata]

3 minutes ago, Abacus said:

VAR doesn't need some incompetent referee second guessing decisions - just a video operator who shows what is asked, for the main ref to decide on.

 

This is exactly how it should be IMO, it would be a quicker process too. 

 

 

Edited September 5, 2022 by Pata

[Happinesstan]

1 hour ago, Pata said:

Personally I would draw the lines from the feet as I’m sceptical you can draw accurate and consistent lines from shoulders but it is what it is.

I say you draw the line at the part of the body that makes initial contact.

[geordiesteve710]

16 minutes ago, HaydnNUFC said:

I'll personally never subscribe to the corruption patter but I can see why people believe it given the amount of shit the cuntbag 6 get, can reel off loads against Man City alone that has gone against us in the last decade. But I do think it's sheer incompetence and accountability has to be brought in.

 

Such a howler like what Mason made on Saturday has to render a suspension from refereeing for a period or just a sacking a la managers imo. At the top level you simply cannot make such a gargantuan error on game changing scenarios such as a goals like Saturday and when the evidence is all there to see and you're the only person in the world along with a few wankers who support Palace that don't think that that was a goal, I'm sorry. Get to fuck. The referee (who was fucking shite anyhow btw) who is new to the PL has had pressure put on by a senior referee to see a similar view. The on field referee and his assistants originally gave the goal, same with the on field referees for the West Ham goal, so less pressure from VAR or more assertiveness from on field refs is required. 

 

To achieve that though big reform is needed in regard to how VAR is operated and how they train on field referees. I don't think Howard Webb coming back in will change this any way way though so I'm not holding my breath.

 

 

 

 

Even if that ref on Saturday was looking at the replay thinking "this is bollocks, I made the right decision" it would have been at the back of his mind that no referee in the PL had ever previously gone to the monitor and not overturned the original decision. That's got to add an additional level of pressure not wanting to be the first to do so and potentially undermining a senior colleague. Especially if it turns out you're wrong.

 

Now that taboo has been broken I reckon we'll see more refs stand by the initial call.

[Jesse Pinkman]

I don’t think they are on the clubs books or anything. It’s more they are just cowards. They know if they give a big decision at Old Trafford or Anfield Fergie or Klopp will berate them and they may be all over the back pages the next day. They don’t want that attention. 

 

They chose the path of least resistance during 50/50 situations. The decision in our game was just pure shite though. 

 

 

Edited September 5, 2022 by Jesse Pinkman

[geordiesteve710]

This thing about "normal contact" is bollocks as well.

 

Willock was in the air and he's been pushed into the keeper. What's he done in between to mean his contact with the keeper was less "normal" than the push on him, turned his fucking jetboots on??