Dogawful Officiating: PL clubs to vote on proposal to scrap VAR

[Pilko]

We need to keep VAR and we need much more competent people using it and running the show. I saw a post on Instagram of the list of PGMOL apologies since early 2022 and fuck me, they've said "Sorry" more times than Ronnie Corbett.

 

Years and years of watching us on the wrong end of shit decisions that everyone in the stadium and at home could see were wrong other than the three useless tossers on the pitch was awful and I wouldn't want that back.

 

Surely you have a dedicated VAR team who all day and all night utilise the VAR technology and are regularly and constantly subjected to both written and practical examinations around the correct usage of the system and application of the games laws, rather than the same idiots with the whistle on rotation; one week bungling things on the pitch and the next in the comfy chair making an arse of the video side.

 

You also improve transparency of the live decision-making process much like cricket or dare I say it rugby. The only thing that's good about rugby is the transparency of the on-field and video refereeing.

 

Next, you make the sanctions (and rewards tbf) for these VAR officials much greater. Never mind a paid week off if they make a huge bungle like the Diaz one, they should be fined or banned for a longer period, re-educated and made to apologise publically themselves rather than hiding behind a PGMOL statement. Similarly they should be compensated via bonuses for correct and good application of the law over nominated time periods.

 

Sadly, the only way we'll ever seen any real progress or reform in this area is when damage is done to "the product" of the Premier League. I've said it more times than I care to remember but until a manager walks his team off the pitch in the event of the next aberration and refuses to continue a match, we'll see no discernible change and more posturing from that limp dick Webb on Sky Sports etc when Neville and Carra etc go in for a cosy chat. That or PL managers all refuse to do interviews for TV until there's a proper review or something. It'll need to be drastic, unfortunately.

 

We need to embrace technology and move with the developments but a massive review of the personnel utilising and managing the thing needs to happen sooner rather than later.

[GeordieDazzler]

Not sure fining, banning and making referees apologise in public will work in the way you think it will. Sounds like a surefire way to lose referees from an already small pool. They’re match officials, not criminals. 
 

 

[simonsays]

The only way is transparency imo, unfortunately players can't be trusted not to swear so no way they will go for micing up the ref

[Pilko]

5 minutes ago, GeordieDazzler said:

Not sure fining, banning and making referees apologise in public will work in the way you think it will. Sounds like a surefire way to lose referees from an already small pool. They’re match officials, not criminals. 
 

 

 

These are basically multi-million pound decisions they're making that have an adverse effect on millions of people. If they haven't got the arsehole to front up when they do get it wrong then they shouldn't be in the job in the first place.

[GeordieDazzler]

Adverse effect  some people will have a little moan on Twitter or down the pub then get on with their day, like they did in the previous 100 years before VAR.

 

I don’t really care about football clubs making or losing money.  
 

It will never be enough and the subjective nature of football refereeing means there will always be disagreements. Yesterday someone fucked up, like their statement said it was a mistake. 

[Pilko]

10 minutes ago, GeordieDazzler said:

Adverse effect  some people will have a little moan on Twitter or down the pub then get on with their day, like they did in the previous 100 years before VAR.

 

I don’t really care about football clubs making or losing money.  
 

It will never be enough and the subjective nature of football refereeing means there will always be disagreements. Yesterday someone fucked up, like their statement said it was a mistake. 

 

Just because you're dismissing the effect it has on fans and "don't care" about football clubs making money doesn't mean technology will simply go away. We need to find a way to embrace it; some of the things I suggested above will be flawed in practice but there will be a way to make it much better, as it is in other sports which proves it's not an impossibility to do so.

[huss9]

1 hour ago, GeordieDazzler said:

Not sure fining, banning and making referees apologise in public will work in the way you think it will. Sounds like a surefire way to lose referees from an already small pool. They’re match officials, not criminals. 
 

 

they're not getting jailed.

you dont have to be a criminal for getting the sack from your job for being utterly incompetent.

[El Prontonise]

2 minutes ago, huss9 said:

they're not getting jailed.

you dont have to be a criminal for getting the sack from your job for being utterly incompetent.

They'll make even more mistakes if you keep threatening people with the sack all the time.

[McDog]

One thing I found puzzling. VAR indicated they thought the referee ruled it a goal so after 20 seconds they said check cleared. So why didn't they see the referee call it offside and relay down that no it was onside.

[El Prontonise]

1 hour ago, McDog said:

One thing I found puzzling. VAR indicated they thought the referee ruled it a goal so after 20 seconds they said check cleared. So why didn't they see the referee call it offside and relay down that no it was onside.

 

No, the check cleared was the wrong command they sent to the ref, then their was lapse in concentration at var.  Once the game had kicked off again var can't intervene.

[McDog]

7 minutes ago, El Prontonise said:

 

No, the check cleared was the wrong command they sent to the ref, then their was lapse in concentration at var.  Once the game had kicked off again var can't intervene.

 

 

My understanding, and it may be semantics, was that they said "check cleared" because they thought it had been ruled a goal. They thought it was the correct command.

 

Anyway, kind of sad once the game kicked off they couldn't stop it and acknowledge the error. I mean, when they look at a goal, they say they also look at the buildup which is beyond daft, right? How is that different from correcting a mistake less than a minute later. I do get you can't in the 90th minute announce the game is now tied  because VAR made a mistake earlier. VAR does kinda suck as it is now.

[Displayname]

Why do people think incompentency like this is unavoidable? Even the refs here is Norway dont make these mistakes, and those guys dont even have it as a full time job. Whats so hard about refereeing in the premier league?

[NUFC]

The LOTG state

 

Match validity

 

In principle, a match is not invalidated because of:

malfunction(s) of the VAR technology (as for goal line technology (GLT))

wrong decision(s) involving the VAR (as the VAR is a match official)

decision(s) not to review an incident

review(s) of a non-reviewable situation/decision

 

Good luck with that Liverpool 👍

 

 

Edited October 2, 2023 by NUFC

[Stifler]

36 minutes ago, Displayname said:

Why do people think incompentency like this is unavoidable? Even the refs here is Norway dont make these mistakes, and those guys dont even have it as a full time job. Whats so hard about refereeing in the premier league?

We like to think that because we have the best league, we also have the best referees.

We don’t, they have been shit since I started following football, and were shit before then as well.

They get a pass because apparently our league is the fastest, however that totally goes out of the window when you bring VAR into the equation.

 

Our standard is poor because when every other country is going out a getting the people who are playing football, but not good enough to play at a higher enough level, and paying them to become referees and coaches, we are asking people to pay for the courses.

It’s lead to a system where people are priced out of it, and getting up to professional or even semi-professional levels is a closed group.

 

[toon25]

If the match fees and/contracts for refs gave enough coin, you'd have no problem recruiting refs - and hopefully with a bit of gravitas and pedigree.

 

This current lot have all the authority of a shit supply teacher.

[Dr Venkman]

11 hours ago, Pilko said:

We need to keep VAR and we need much more competent people using it and running the show. I saw a post on Instagram of the list of PGMOL apologies since early 2022 and fuck me, they've said "Sorry" more times than Ronnie Corbett.

 

Years and years of watching us on the wrong end of shit decisions that everyone in the stadium and at home could see were wrong other than the three useless tossers on the pitch was awful and I wouldn't want that back.

 

Surely you have a dedicated VAR team who all day and all night utilise the VAR technology and are regularly and constantly subjected to both written and practical examinations around the correct usage of the system and application of the games laws, rather than the same idiots with the whistle on rotation; one week bungling things on the pitch and the next in the comfy chair making an arse of the video side.

 

You also improve transparency of the live decision-making process much like cricket or dare I say it rugby. The only thing that's good about rugby is the transparency of the on-field and video refereeing.

 

Next, you make the sanctions (and rewards tbf) for these VAR officials much greater. Never mind a paid week off if they make a huge bungle like the Diaz one, they should be fined or banned for a longer period, re-educated and made to apologise publically themselves rather than hiding behind a PGMOL statement. Similarly they should be compensated via bonuses for correct and good application of the law over nominated time periods.

 

Sadly, the only way we'll ever seen any real progress or reform in this area is when damage is done to "the product" of the Premier League. I've said it more times than I care to remember but until a manager walks his team off the pitch in the event of the next aberration and refuses to continue a match, we'll see no discernible change and more posturing from that limp dick Webb on Sky Sports etc when Neville and Carra etc go in for a cosy chat. That or PL managers all refuse to do interviews for TV until there's a proper review or something. It'll need to be drastic, unfortunately.

 

We need to embrace technology and move with the developments but a massive review of the personnel utilising and managing the thing needs to happen sooner rather than later.

Great post.

[Groundhog63]

Difficult to counter incompetence quickly. 

VARnigh impossible to counter corruption. 

However, given the main "error" here was the VAR bloke thinking the ref had awarded the goal, the underlying problems were comms, haste and reset. Or lack of, rather. 

Like rugby

"I'm going offside based on lino" 

"we'll check and get back" 

"it's onside" 

"reeto, stop lads, play goes back" 

 

Simples

 

[The College Dropout]

Crying about VAR is annoying.

 

People ultimately use VAR. People make mistakes. Having VAR should reduce mistakes, but it won't eradicate them. In the Liverpool game only the offside was a mistake. The original lino made a mistake but it was super poor that 2 other officials made the same mistake. Especially when there's a process in place to prevent it. But.... that happens sometimes. 

 

But if not for VAR that mistake happens 4x a week and everyone has to suck it up. Now... it happens less.

 

It's open to interpretation for stuff like fouls, particularly for penalties. So.. sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.

 

Edit: Just read the thread back. The process was followed, but there was miscommunication which was down to an inefficient/vague process. The process needs to be changed. And refs should be accountable for not following procedure even if nothing goes wrong. 

 

I have no issue with the "no bringbacks" approach even if it means breaking procedure causes massive mistakes. It just opens a can of worms.

 

 

Edited October 2, 2023 by The College Dropout

[The Prophet]

1 hour ago, NUFC said:

The LOTG state

 

Match validity

 

In principle, a match is not invalidated because of:

malfunction(s) of the VAR technology (as for goal line technology (GLT))

wrong decision(s) involving the VAR (as the VAR is a match official)

decision(s) not to review an incident

review(s) of a non-reviewable situation/decision

 

Good luck with that Liverpool 👍

 

 

 

 

Bournemouth were relegated on a GLT malfunction.

[Matt1892]

Also worth adding that Premier League clubs had the opportunity to have the same semi automated offside technology that was used in the World Cup, yet turned this down for people drawing lines on a screen.

[Kimbo]

The crybullying from Liverpool is pathetic. They tried the same shit last season so it’s an obvious tactic to try and intimidate officials into not giving decisions against them. In the Spurs game the offside call was horrible, anyone would be pissed off, but it happens on a regular basis throughout the league. The red cards were the correct call.

 

 

Edited October 2, 2023 by Kimbo

[The Prophet]

The Governing bodies create a lot of problems for VAR too. 

 

Rejecting semi-auto offside technology, sending the ref to the monitor, not showing him all angles and speeds available, the "high bar" and a general lack of transparency, particularly to those fans in the ground is all completely avoidable stuff they've chose to implement.

[toon25]

4 minutes ago, Matt1892 said:

Also worth adding that Premier League clubs had the opportunity to have the same semi automated offside technology that was used in the World Cup, yet turned this down for people drawing lines on a screen.

 

Absolutely ridiculous. 

[The Prophet]

https://x.com/pras_fpl/status/1708497740504633813?s=46&t=L-eGDdmSuy2-iyyha9jzgw

[The College Dropout]

^^

 

Aye shit refereeing. It happens. I think that's worse than the Liverpool goal. The Liverpool goal was bad communication / shit procedure. That was just 3 people all agreeing and being wrong.