Hatem Ben Arfa

[Eddy Chibas]

The shorter, stocky players (and Ben Arfa falls into this category) shouldn't need to hit the weights, to further strenghten their core & upper body strength. The little guys naturally have a compact, lower centre of gravity, hence they're tougher whack off the ball - they often bounce off/ride challenges better than the big physical specimens. Look at Messi & Maradona - ungainly looking, but they could both ride a tackle, especially a bump from the side/when going past a player. They were both quick off-the-mark, but they didn't have the sort of 'deep' speed which the covering defense is incapable of reeling-in, so the low-centre-of-gravity is/was a pivotal attricute to have (when dealing with secondary etc challenges). Ben Arfa is like those two, he doesn't need to bulk-up in the gym imho.

 

On the whole footballers i think have become overconditioned physically, too finely tuned. Too much time spent in the gym. They become labrats with a solid-to-excellent-to-prodigious technical ability. Admittedly some kids, like Pogba, are natural specimens - genetically blessed. Sometimes feel that training programes are geared toward producing track&field-like beasts disguised in football shirts. And high-performance athletes, like track&fielders, are prone to soft tissue niggles & tears (greater muscle mass, with their training & match-related workload = more things can go wrong/break down).

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Training and selection of players is too geared to athleticism, that's true. But Ben Arfa doesn't have a problem in that area at all.

[Mole_Toonfan]

The shorter, stocky players (and Ben Arfa falls into this category) shouldn't need to hit the weights, to further strenghten their core & upper body strength. The little guys naturally have a compact, lower centre of gravity, hence they're tougher whack off the ball - they often bounce off/ride challenges better than the big physical specimens. Look at Messi & Maradona - ungainly looking, but they could both ride a tackle, especially a bump from the side/when going past a player. They were both quick off-the-mark, but they didn't have the sort of 'deep' speed which the covering defense is incapable of reeling-in, so the low-centre-of-gravity is/was a pivotal attricute to have (when dealing with secondary etc challenges). Ben Arfa is like those two, he doesn't need to bulk-up in the gym imho.

 

On the whole footballers i think have become overconditioned physically, too finely tuned. Too much time spent in the gym. They become labrats with a solid-to-excellent-to-prodigious technical ability. Admittedly some kids, like Pogba, are natural specimens - genetically blessed. Sometimes feel that training programes are geared toward producing track&field-like beasts disguised in football shirts. And high-performance athletes, like track&fielders, are prone to soft tissue niggles & tears (greater muscle mass, with their training & match-related workload = more things can go wrong/break down).

 

[sparta]

The shorter, stocky players (and Ben Arfa falls into this category) shouldn't need to hit the weights, to further strenghten their core & upper body strength. The little guys naturally have a compact, lower centre of gravity, hence they're tougher whack off the ball - they often bounce off/ride challenges better than the big physical specimens. Look at Messi & Maradona - ungainly looking, but they could both ride a tackle, especially a bump from the side/when going past a player. They were both quick off-the-mark, but they didn't have the sort of 'deep' speed which the covering defense is incapable of reeling-in, so the low-centre-of-gravity is/was a pivotal attricute to have (when dealing with secondary etc challenges). Ben Arfa is like those two, he doesn't need to bulk-up in the gym imho.

 

On the whole footballers i think have become overconditioned physically, too finely tuned. Too much time spent in the gym. They become labrats with a solid-to-excellent-to-prodigious technical ability. Admittedly some kids, like Pogba, are natural specimens - genetically blessed. Sometimes feel that training programes are geared toward producing track&field-like beasts disguised in football shirts. And high-performance athletes, like track&fielders, are prone to soft tissue niggles & tears (greater muscle mass, with their training & match-related workload = more things can go wrong/break down).

 

First bit your not far off.

 

But the second bit, oh my, what a load of bullshit.

you can discuss loss of speed, mobility e.t.c. but saying greater muscle mass = more things that can go wrong you should really read up a bit.

 

 

 

[Ste]

Feels like it's said so much but this lad is a really special player, hope he manages to stay fit much better than he has in the past. There's a real buzz when he's on the ball, he's capable of something out of nothing which is absolutely priceless for the way we operate as a team.

[Tooj]

It's mental how things have changed for him as just over a year ago the amount of stick the lad got when returning from serious injury was absolutely pathetic. Especially those that sat around me at the match. Then after the Sunderland match the way they went on was "oh I've always had faith in him", "knew he would be amazing for us" compared to the Wolves game when it was "what a lazy kernt", "greedy bastard we need to get rid".

[Dave]

It's mental how things have changed for him as just over a year ago the amount of stick the lad got when returning from serious injury was absolutely pathetic. Especially those that sat around me at the match. Then after the Sunderland match the way they went on was "oh I've always had faith in him", "knew he would be amazing for us" compared to the Wolves game when it was "what a lazy kernt", "greedy bastard we need to get rid".

 

WHOA there, are you implying that people at the match could be fickle too? I thought that was only on here.

[Tooj]

Shaddap man.

[Guest bimpy474]

Oh god, 65 mins of containment and hoy on Hatem to save the day.

[Eddy Chibas]

The shorter, stocky players (and Ben Arfa falls into this category) shouldn't need to hit the weights, to further strenghten their core & upper body strength. The little guys naturally have a compact, lower centre of gravity, hence they're tougher whack off the ball - they often bounce off/ride challenges better than the big physical specimens. Look at Messi & Maradona - ungainly looking, but they could both ride a tackle, especially a bump from the side/when going past a player. They were both quick off-the-mark, but they didn't have the sort of 'deep' speed which the covering defense is incapable of reeling-in, so the low-centre-of-gravity is/was a pivotal attricute to have (when dealing with secondary etc challenges). Ben Arfa is like those two, he doesn't need to bulk-up in the gym imho.

 

On the whole footballers i think have become overconditioned physically, too finely tuned. Too much time spent in the gym. They become labrats with a solid-to-excellent-to-prodigious technical ability. Admittedly some kids, like Pogba, are natural specimens - genetically blessed. Sometimes feel that training programes are geared toward producing track&field-like beasts disguised in football shirts. And high-performance athletes, like track&fielders, are prone to soft tissue niggles & tears (greater muscle mass, with their training & match-related workload = more things can go wrong/break down).

 

First bit your not far off.

 

But the second bit, oh my, what a load of bullshit.

you can discuss loss of speed, mobility e.t.c. but saying greater muscle mass = more things that can go wrong you should really read up a bit.

 

Actually i've read dribs&drabs about one interesting study, concerning footballers (particularly yth athletes, whether it be round ball, rugby & aussie rules) who over-do it when adding muscle mass in the upper leg areas, especially through the quads & nearby muscle sets, and how they're prone to experiencing persistent groin & hammy issues. It's more of a problem with youngsters, as their bones are still growing/ligaments are still developing, and rapid rate muscle increase can throw a spanner in the works re-durability( without getting into specifics). The Aussie rules code has experienced something of a mini-plague of gym & protein enhanced youngsters breaking down with oestitis-pubis/chronic groin issues. Several clubs are looking to peel back their scientificapproach slightly, by allowing youngsters to grow into their frame, rather than overly force the issue in a short window of time (re: muscle building).

 

How often do you hear of spectacularly tuned track&fielders pulling-up lame, in training, during the lead-up to an event, or mid-event? Not often are they just right, certainly at a level where their ability to compete with the best isn't compromised.  Those physical versions of an F1 peak during the small windows of opportunity they're not crocked, and with those guys (due to the excellence of the field) a slight niggle equates to being crocked, at least worthy of an withdrawal. The Easter Stawell Gift's (famous sprint event featuring amateurs v world class 'finely tuned' goliaths) guest stars , with their abbreviated appearances, reads more like a physio room casualty list ie. Christie, with Asafa Powell the latest.

 

Professional footballers (of today) are not dissimilar, especially the young-uns: impressive to look at, more explosive thanks to modern science/time spent in the gym, when compared with players of yesteryear. Hence the phrasing earlier, they're like track&field beasts disguised in football kits. There's a greater demand placed on athletic physical excellence (cultivated and/or modified) in club football now, almost at a level akin to t&f, and like the finely tuned & muscular Christies/Powells etc, there's a trade-off/downside when gym-fed/conditioned/tuned explosiveness & power meets a lengthy season preparation & match workload.

 

 

[Guest VanBarduck]

The shorter, stocky players (and Ben Arfa falls into this category) shouldn't need to hit the weights, to further strenghten their core & upper body strength. The little guys naturally have a compact, lower centre of gravity, hence they're tougher whack off the ball - they often bounce off/ride challenges better than the big physical specimens. Look at Messi & Maradona - ungainly looking, but they could both ride a tackle, especially a bump from the side/when going past a player. They were both quick off-the-mark, but they didn't have the sort of 'deep' speed which the covering defense is incapable of reeling-in, so the low-centre-of-gravity is/was a pivotal attricute to have (when dealing with secondary etc challenges). Ben Arfa is like those two, he doesn't need to bulk-up in the gym imho.

 

On the whole footballers i think have become overconditioned physically, too finely tuned. Too much time spent in the gym. They become labrats with a solid-to-excellent-to-prodigious technical ability. Admittedly some kids, like Pogba, are natural specimens - genetically blessed. Sometimes feel that training programes are geared toward producing track&field-like beasts disguised in football shirts. And high-performance athletes, like track&fielders, are prone to soft tissue niggles & tears (greater muscle mass, with their training & match-related workload = more things can go wrong/break down).

 

First bit your not far off.

 

But the second bit, oh my, what a load of bullshit.

you can discuss loss of speed, mobility e.t.c. but saying greater muscle mass = more things that can go wrong you should really read up a bit.

 

Actually i've read dribs&drabs about one interesting study, concerning footballers (particularly yth athletes, whether it be round ball, rugby & aussie rules) who over-do it when adding muscle mass in the upper leg areas, especially through the quads & nearby muscle sets, and how they're prone to experiencing persistent groin & hammy issues. It's more of a problem with youngsters, as their bones are still growing/ligaments are still developing, and rapid rate muscle increase can throw a spanner in the works re-durability( without getting into specifics). The Aussie rules code has experienced something of a mini-plague of gym & protein enhanced youngsters breaking down with oestitis-pubis/chronic groin issues. Several clubs are looking to peel back their scientificapproach slightly, by allowing youngsters to grow into their frame, rather than overly force the issue in a short window of time (re: muscle building).

 

How often do you hear of spectacularly tuned track&fielders pulling-up lame, in training, during the lead-up to an event, or mid-event? Not often are they just right, certainly at a level where their ability to compete with the best is compromised.  Those physical versions of an F1 peak during the small windows of opportunity they're not crocked, and with those guys (due to the excellence of the field) a slight niggle equates to being crocked, at least worthy of an withdrawal. The Easter Stawell Gift's (famous sprint event featuring amateurs v world class 'finely tuned' goliaths) guest stars , with their abbreviated appearances, reads more like a physio room casualty list ie. Christie, with Asafa Powell the latest.

 

Professional footballers (of today) are not dissimilar, especially the young-uns: impressive to look at, more explosive thanks to modern science/time spent in the gym, when compared with players of yesteryear. Hence the phrasing earlier, they're like track&field beasts disguised in football kits. There's a greater demand placed on physical excellence in club football now, almost at a level akin to t&f, and like the finely tuned & muscular Christies/Powells etc, there's a trade-off/downside when gym-fed/conditioned/tuned explosiveness & power meets a lengthy season preparation & match workload.

 

Anatomy 101

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-rCGkL4Sexpo/TmQD97ow9kI/AAAAAAAAAO0/dyCGA73-3sk/s1600/1298717198369.jpg

 

That's actually Ben Arfa's body  Just a fat short dwarf

[Spudil]

The shorter, stocky players (and Ben Arfa falls into this category) shouldn't need to hit the weights, to further strenghten their core & upper body strength. The little guys naturally have a compact, lower centre of gravity, hence they're tougher whack off the ball - they often bounce off/ride challenges better than the big physical specimens. Look at Messi & Maradona - ungainly looking, but they could both ride a tackle, especially a bump from the side/when going past a player. They were both quick off-the-mark, but they didn't have the sort of 'deep' speed which the covering defense is incapable of reeling-in, so the low-centre-of-gravity is/was a pivotal attricute to have (when dealing with secondary etc challenges). Ben Arfa is like those two, he doesn't need to bulk-up in the gym imho.

 

On the whole footballers i think have become overconditioned physically, too finely tuned. Too much time spent in the gym. They become labrats with a solid-to-excellent-to-prodigious technical ability. Admittedly some kids, like Pogba, are natural specimens - genetically blessed. Sometimes feel that training programes are geared toward producing track&field-like beasts disguised in football shirts. And high-performance athletes, like track&fielders, are prone to soft tissue niggles & tears (greater muscle mass, with their training & match-related workload = more things can go wrong/break down).

 

First bit your not far off.

 

But the second bit, oh my, what a load of bullshit.

you can discuss loss of speed, mobility e.t.c. but saying greater muscle mass = more things that can go wrong you should really read up a bit.

 

Actually i've read dribs&drabs about one interesting study, concerning footballers (particularly yth athletes, whether it be round ball, rugby & aussie rules) who over-do it when adding muscle mass in the upper leg areas, especially through the quads & nearby muscle sets, and how they're prone to experiencing persistent groin & hammy issues. It's more of a problem with youngsters, as their bones are still growing/ligaments are still developing, and rapid rate muscle increase can throw a spanner in the works re-durability( without getting into specifics). The Aussie rules code has experienced something of a mini-plague of gym & protein enhanced youngsters breaking down with oestitis-pubis/chronic groin issues. Several clubs are looking to peel back their scientificapproach slightly, by allowing youngsters to grow into their frame, rather than overly force the issue in a short window of time (re: muscle building).

 

How often do you hear of spectacularly tuned track&fielders pulling-up lame, in training, during the lead-up to an event, or mid-event? Not often are they just right, certainly at a level where their ability to compete with the best is compromised.  Those physical versions of an F1 peak during the small windows of opportunity they're not crocked, and with those guys (due to the excellence of the field) a slight niggle equates to being crocked, at least worthy of an withdrawal. The Easter Stawell Gift's (famous sprint event featuring amateurs v world class 'finely tuned' goliaths) guest stars , with their abbreviated appearances, reads more like a physio room casualty list ie. Christie, with Asafa Powell the latest.

 

Professional footballers (of today) are not dissimilar, especially the young-uns: impressive to look at, more explosive thanks to modern science/time spent in the gym, when compared with players of yesteryear. Hence the phrasing earlier, they're like track&field beasts disguised in football kits. There's a greater demand placed on athletic physical excellence (cultivated and/or modified) in club football now, almost at a level akin to t&f, and like the finely tuned & muscular Christies/Powells etc, there's a trade-off/downside when gym-fed/conditioned/tuned explosiveness & power meets a lengthy season preparation & match workload.

 

[citation needed]

 

[Ted Maul]

Love how he says he wants to stay and play in Europe with us again

[Eddy Chibas]

Can't be arsed providing an official reference, to a print piece i read ages ago, for a forum.

 

In the case of Ben Arfa, applying logic & context to my argument re:overconditioned footballers. After he was given the green light to hit his rehab full tilt, after getting rid of the cast following the break, there would have been alot of micro tears occuring, from those targeted workouts, when he was basically rebuilding muscle loss (caused by inactivity). The amount of micro-tearing going on, to simply rebuild & get back to former strength level, would have caused muscle instability, cue his hammy issues later on. His hamstrings are probably loaded with scar tissue, on the back of what would have been a gruelling rehab progrsmme.

 

Apply that same ratiional to a footballer, or athlete,  living by a high performance, targeted workload on localised muscle groups, to extract another x% of power etc & performance. You've got a comparable amount of localised micro-tearing going on. It's no wonder, imo,  today's finely tuned footballers are breaking down so often with soft tissue inj's, of the hamstring etc variety.

 

 

 

 

[Guest hatem garrincha]

Pardew saying he'll not start = he'll start

[ExiledGeordie]

The fact this lad is back must have the Mackems secretly shitting themselves at what he can do

[Ryan_Taylor]

The fact this lad is back must have the Mackems secretly shitting themselves at what he can do

Meg-o-rama

[LiquidAK]

The fact this lad is back must have the Mackems secretly shitting themselves at what he can do

 

Nah, he's not actually that good, remember? Sess is much better. "The Best in the World" is just an injury prone, overhyped consequence of the magedia machine, marra.

[Guest ElCid]

[sparta]

The shorter, stocky players (and Ben Arfa falls into this category) shouldn't need to hit the weights, to further strenghten their core & upper body strength. The little guys naturally have a compact, lower centre of gravity, hence they're tougher whack off the ball - they often bounce off/ride challenges better than the big physical specimens. Look at Messi & Maradona - ungainly looking, but they could both ride a tackle, especially a bump from the side/when going past a player. They were both quick off-the-mark, but they didn't have the sort of 'deep' speed which the covering defense is incapable of reeling-in, so the low-centre-of-gravity is/was a pivotal attricute to have (when dealing with secondary etc challenges). Ben Arfa is like those two, he doesn't need to bulk-up in the gym imho.

 

On the whole footballers i think have become overconditioned physically, too finely tuned. Too much time spent in the gym. They become labrats with a solid-to-excellent-to-prodigious technical ability. Admittedly some kids, like Pogba, are natural specimens - genetically blessed. Sometimes feel that training programes are geared toward producing track&field-like beasts disguised in football shirts. And high-performance athletes, like track&fielders, are prone to soft tissue niggles & tears (greater muscle mass, with their training & match-related workload = more things can go wrong/break down).

 

First bit your not far off.

 

But the second bit, oh my, what a load of bullshit.

you can discuss loss of speed, mobility e.t.c. but saying greater muscle mass = more things that can go wrong you should really read up a bit.

Actually i've read dribs&drabs about one interesting study, concerning footballers (particularly yth athletes, whether it be round ball, rugby & aussie rules) who over-do it when adding muscle mass in the upper leg areas, especially through the quads & nearby muscle sets, and how they're prone to experiencing persistent groin & hammy issues. It's more of a problem with youngsters, as their bones are still growing/ligaments are still developing, and rapid rate muscle increase can throw a spanner in the works re-durability( without getting into specifics).The Aussie rules code has experienced something of a mini-plague of gym & protein enhanced youngsters breaking down with oestitis-pubis/chronic groin issues. Several clubs are looking to peel back their scientificapproach slightly, by allowing youngsters to grow into their frame, rather than overly force the issue in a short window of time (re: muscle building).

 

How often do you hear of spectacularly tuned track&fielders pulling-up lame, in training, during the lead-up to an event, or mid-event? Not often are they just right, certainly at a level where their ability to compete with the best isn't compromised.  Those physical versions of an F1 peak during the small windows of opportunity they're not crocked, and with those guys (due to the excellence of the field) a slight niggle equates to being crocked, at least worthy of an withdrawal. The Easter Stawell Gift's (famous sprint event featuring amateurs v world class 'finely tuned' goliaths) guest stars , with their abbreviated appearances, reads more like a physio room casualty list ie. Christie, with Asafa Powell the latest.

.

Professional footballers (of today) are not dissimilar, especially the young-uns: impressive to look at, more explosive thanks to modern science/time spent in the gym, when compared with players of yesteryear. Hence the phrasing earlier, they're like track&field beasts disguised in football kits. There's a greater demand placed on athletic physical excellence (cultivated and/or modified) in club football now, almost at a level akin to t&f, and like the finely tuned & muscular Christies/Powells etc, there's a trade-off/downside when gym-fed/conditioned/tuned explosiveness & power meets a lengthy season preparation & match workload

 

Sorry about my bad english btw. but here we go

 

1. Well any educated man knows that reffering from one study (wich doesnt even need to have a statistical significant result) doesnt mean the world is flat really?

Im a Naprapath student (mix between fysio and chiro)

Still i think your off a bit. If the support staff of newcastle have just a little between their ears they know that just training individual muscle groups are not the way to go unless they have found a unbalanced muscle. (example: a muscle that is weaker than the other side/weaker compared to supporting muscles/weaker than the anatomy chains <-another lecture btw)

 

2. Every decent study the last 50 years has shown that training strenght is good for your body, no matter if you are 8 or 90, its a matter of amount, specificy and workload combined.

 

3. Well you are right, without proper guidance in training, specifically footballers have a higher tendency to groin related injuries. But saying its directly related to a total growth of muscle mass is still a bit silly? you dont often see a footballer with awesome adductor muscles do you?

but as i said you right if you overwork the muscles that fuse into the pubic bone as hopefully no decent trainer would do.

 

4. Couldnt see in your text that you where talking about kids or the adverce effect of overly forced muscle training. Thats a WHOLE other subject.

 

Other then that i still get your point and agree with you til some extent. I think (and hope) that coaches as a whole focus much more on anatomical chains and such instead off forcing individual muscles to perform outside its parameters.

 

On the bit about track runners, yep, as in any sport if you train one muscle group to its limit you are sure to get some problems with them eventually, especially high intensity sports like track runners. Footballers does not equate to track runners in any way, as they work in a singular motion to its full extent, while football has a multidirectional plane of work. And such your argument of track and run is invalid

 

HOWEVER: The trend of younger, fitter and faster players are something to behold, if you look at superstars 10-20 years back, very few of them was 20years old. Its a interesting dilemma and discussion about younguns and their development as well as injuries. But linking them all and saying "Muscle mass=Bad" are still pretty silly in my opinion.

 

"kraken released"

[Flip]

In a way I hope we won't see him today as it will mean we'll be up by like 3-4 goals and won't need him. But at the same time, imagine him nutmegging their players once again.

[Flip]

Came on did couple of nice things, then noticed we were hopeless and tried to change the game on his own. Didn't work.

[SLK]

He was crap today. Took so much time and slowed the game so much when we needed the exact opposite and didn't pass the ball quickly to available players (did you see how long Marveaux was waving for the ball !!!). One of his worst games.

[Skeletor]

He was crap today. Took so much time and slowed the game so much when we needed the exact opposite and didn't pass the ball quickly to available players (did you see how long Marveaux was waving for the ball !!!). One of his worst games.

 

Hate to say but I agree. Much better on Thursday.

[Flip]

Like I said: Came on did couple of nice things, then noticed we were hopeless and tried to change the game on his own. Didn't work. (not going to blame him for the loss though)