Kanj Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 HBA may be the more talented but no way has he ever been more effective or produced like Robert and Solano. That may be a product of injury and Pardew though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alberto2005 Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Could be the fact that Robert and Solano were playing in a team challenging for the top 4. A team which Andy Griffin and Andy O'Brien looked competent. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexf Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 If he had never broken his leg he may have gone on to be better maybe but it doesn't matter anyway, our team is shit compared to that side and Ben Arfa is the least of our problems. The fact he seems to be getting more stick than others today annoys me though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanj Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 I really don't know why today is a day to compare them. HBA had a tough match and his shit manager didn't set him up to play to his strengths. The fuck does Robert or Solano have to do about today? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 HBA's rubbish, Marveaux's rubbish, Tiote's rubbish. Sissoko? He's rubbish. Don't get me started on Cisse and Santon. All our players are rubbish, truly letting down our talented Poyet-cock-sucking manager. I feel sad for him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ketsbaia Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 He was the only player not to get a 1/10 from me today, although he wasnt much better. He looked bright a few times but there was never an option in the box. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmonkey Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 IMO with Robert when he got something right you'd remember it - great left foot - but over 90 minutes he'd be highly frustrating, hitting the first man with his crosses the majority of the time (conveniently forgotten it seems), shooting wildly and selfishly from anywhere, rarely ever producing a good pass for teammates (virtually all assists were crosses/corners). The point here being that imo Robert was carried by an excellent footballing side (under a legendary manager) and therefore had the luxury and freedom of being the guy who'd pop up 25-40 yards only having to produce a good cross or shot to go home having had a good game. With Ben Arfa, it's entirely different - he's under immense pressure to be the guy who picks the ball up from within his own half and then make something happen by beating 2/3/4 players, i.e. carrying the entire team. To put it another way, Robert's job was icing the cake, Hatem's is to make the cake all on his own (something few players on this planet can consistently do). Another point to think about with Robert. When Sir Bobby's team was flying high at its very best and looking like a surprise title challenge might be on the cards, Bellamy got injured and our team/that title challenge crumbled (even Sir Alex admitted he thought we'd win the title if Bellamy hadn't got injured). How did Robert fare when Bellamy was out of the team in that specific period? From what I recall his game immediately suffered because the team as a whole were less effective, and he certainly didn't step up to the plate and carry the game for us. So clearly he was heavily reliant on the team as a whole being fully functional. Furthermore, his peak lasted about a season and a half, and as soon as the team started to wane in Sir Bobby's final full season, and with Souness not preferring him, Robert's game went completely down the hill. To put it simply, Robert became s*** as soon as Sir Bobby's team descended to the standard that our current team is at. Compare all of this to Hatem. Leg snapped in two so out for a year, frequently dropped and scapegoated, further injuries, has had to play in a team playing far worse hoofball than we did even under Souness, forced by his manager to track back to pretty extreme levels (something Robert never had to do, meaning less energy wasted and more opportunities to be closer to opposition goal). And then on top of all of this, having hit some fantastic form for very brief periods, he's now become a marked man because everyone knows how good he is, usually having 2 players closing him down as soon as he's on the ball (something teams never did to Robert - wonder why?). Yet he still excites most people in the ground, is often our best player when he's on the pitch, and still manages to beat multiple players and create chances or produce good balls from nothing situations. Even today, despite the attention he had and playing in an unfamiliar position, and having a poor game by his standards, he still had a few decent moments and good passes into the penalty box (the trouble being they were all to Shola Ameobi). Hatem has essentially had everything going against him, yet he's still plugging away and trying to carry the team - unlike Robert who became s*** as soon as the going got tough. Whilst I wish Hatem could cross or take a free kick like Robert, and both are/were inherently inconsistent due to being unpredictable, I still think Hatem is the comfortably superior footballer, and that whilst he may not be as good as we think/hope, we're still criminally wasting his talents by having a manager who has no idea or ability to use him effectively. And fwiw I think Sir Bobby would have used him to devastating effect because his dribbling would have been by far the best in the team. Imagine the space it would have left Dyer and Bellamy if teams decided to double/triple up on Hatem. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Crooks Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Do you think the likes of Robert would even get a sniff in a Pardew side? What would he do when its no one beyond the halfway line time? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 IMO with Robert when he got something right you'd remember it - great left foot - but over 90 minutes he'd be highly frustrating, hitting the first man with his crosses the majority of the time (conveniently forgotten it seems), shooting wildly and selfishly from anywhere, rarely ever producing a good pass for teammates (virtually all assists were crosses/corners). The point here being that imo Robert was carried by an excellent footballing side (under a legendary manager) and therefore had the luxury and freedom of being the guy who'd pop up 25-40 yards only having to produce a good cross or shot to go home having had a good game. With Ben Arfa, it's entirely different - he's under immense pressure to be the guy who picks the ball up from within his own half and then make something happen by beating 2/3/4 players, i.e. carrying the entire team. To put it another way, Robert's job was icing the cake, Hatem's is to make the cake all on his own (something few players on this planet can consistently do). Another point to think about with Robert. When Sir Bobby's team was flying high at its very best and looking like a surprise title challenge might be on the cards, Bellamy got injured and our team/that title challenge crumbled (even Sir Alex admitted he thought we'd win the title if Bellamy hadn't got injured). How did Robert fare when Bellamy was out of the team in that specific period? From what I recall his game immediately suffered because the team as a whole were less effective, and he certainly didn't step up to the plate and carry the game for us. So clearly he was heavily reliant on the team as a whole being fully functional. Furthermore, his peak lasted about a season and a half, and as soon as the team started to wane in Sir Bobby's final full season, and with Souness not preferring him, Robert's game went completely down the hill. To put it simply, Robert became s*** as soon as Sir Bobby's team descended to the standard that our current team is at. Compare all of this to Hatem. Leg snapped in two so out for a year, frequently dropped and scapegoated, further injuries, has had to play in a team playing far worse hoofball than we did even under Souness, forced by his manager to track back to pretty extreme levels (something Robert never had to do, meaning less energy wasted and more opportunities to be closer to opposition goal). And then on top of all of this, having hit some fantastic form for very brief periods, he's now become a marked man because everyone knows how good he is, usually having 2 players closing him down as soon as he's on the ball (something teams never did to Robert - wonder why?). Yet he still excites most people in the ground, is often our best player when he's on the pitch, and still manages to beat multiple players and create chances or produce good balls from nothing situations. Even today, despite the attention he had and playing in an unfamiliar position, and having a poor game by his standards, he still had a few decent moments and good passes into the penalty box (the trouble being they were all to Shola Ameobi). Hatem has essentially had everything going against him, yet he's still plugging away and trying to carry the team - unlike Robert who became s*** as soon as the going got tough. Whilst I wish Hatem could cross or take a free kick like Robert, and both are/were inherently inconsistent due to being unpredictable, I still think Hatem is the comfortably superior footballer, and that whilst he may not be as good as we think/hope, we're still criminally wasting his talents by having a manager who has no idea or ability to use him effectively. And fwiw I think Sir Bobby would have used him to devastating effect because his dribbling would have been by far the best in the team. Imagine the space it would have left Dyer and Bellamy if teams decided to double/triple up on Hatem. Spot on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 IMO with Robert when he got something right you'd remember it - great left foot - but over 90 minutes he'd be highly frustrating, hitting the first man with his crosses the majority of the time (conveniently forgotten it seems), shooting wildly and selfishly from anywhere, rarely ever producing a good pass for teammates (virtually all assists were crosses/corners). The point here being that imo Robert was carried by an excellent footballing side (under a legendary manager) and therefore had the luxury and freedom of being the guy who'd pop up 25-40 yards only having to produce a good cross or shot to go home having had a good game. With Ben Arfa, it's entirely different - he's under immense pressure to be the guy who picks the ball up from within his own half and then make something happen by beating 2/3/4 players, i.e. carrying the entire team. To put it another way, Robert's job was icing the cake, Hatem's is to make the cake all on his own (something few players on this planet can consistently do). Another point to think about with Robert. When Sir Bobby's team was flying high at its very best and looking like a surprise title challenge might be on the cards, Bellamy got injured and our team/that title challenge crumbled (even Sir Alex admitted he thought we'd win the title if Bellamy hadn't got injured). How did Robert fare when Bellamy was out of the team in that specific period? From what I recall his game immediately suffered because the team as a whole were less effective, and he certainly didn't step up to the plate and carry the game for us. So clearly he was heavily reliant on the team as a whole being fully functional. Furthermore, his peak lasted about a season and a half, and as soon as the team started to wane in Sir Bobby's final full season, and with Souness not preferring him, Robert's game went completely down the hill. To put it simply, Robert became s*** as soon as Sir Bobby's team descended to the standard that our current team is at. Compare all of this to Hatem. Leg snapped in two so out for a year, frequently dropped and scapegoated, further injuries, has had to play in a team playing far worse hoofball than we did even under Souness, forced by his manager to track back to pretty extreme levels (something Robert never had to do, meaning less energy wasted and more opportunities to be closer to opposition goal). And then on top of all of this, having hit some fantastic form for very brief periods, he's now become a marked man because everyone knows how good he is, usually having 2 players closing him down as soon as he's on the ball (something teams never did to Robert - wonder why?). Yet he still excites most people in the ground, is often our best player when he's on the pitch, and still manages to beat multiple players and create chances or produce good balls from nothing situations. Even today, despite the attention he had and playing in an unfamiliar position, and having a poor game by his standards, he still had a few decent moments and good passes into the penalty box (the trouble being they were all to Shola Ameobi). Hatem has essentially had everything going against him, yet he's still plugging away and trying to carry the team - unlike Robert who became s*** as soon as the going got tough. Whilst I wish Hatem could cross or take a free kick like Robert, and both are/were inherently inconsistent due to being unpredictable, I still think Hatem is the comfortably superior footballer, and that whilst he may not be as good as we think/hope, we're still criminally wasting his talents by having a manager who has no idea or ability to use him effectively. And fwiw I think Sir Bobby would have used him to devastating effect because his dribbling would have been by far the best in the team. Imagine the space it would have left Dyer and Bellamy if teams decided to double/triple up on Hatem. Cracking post mate. Pleasure to read. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Wish tmonkey was our manager Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Wish tmonkey was our manager I'd take any monkey over Pardew if I'm honest. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geordie Ahmed Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Wish tmonkey was our manager Right now I wish a monkey was our manager Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alijmitchell Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 IMO with Robert when he got something right you'd remember it - great left foot - but over 90 minutes he'd be highly frustrating, hitting the first man with his crosses the majority of the time (conveniently forgotten it seems), shooting wildly and selfishly from anywhere, rarely ever producing a good pass for teammates (virtually all assists were crosses/corners). The point here being that imo Robert was carried by an excellent footballing side (under a legendary manager) and therefore had the luxury and freedom of being the guy who'd pop up 25-40 yards only having to produce a good cross or shot to go home having had a good game. With Ben Arfa, it's entirely different - he's under immense pressure to be the guy who picks the ball up from within his own half and then make something happen by beating 2/3/4 players, i.e. carrying the entire team. To put it another way, Robert's job was icing the cake, Hatem's is to make the cake all on his own (something few players on this planet can consistently do). Another point to think about with Robert. When Sir Bobby's team was flying high at its very best and looking like a surprise title challenge might be on the cards, Bellamy got injured and our team/that title challenge crumbled (even Sir Alex admitted he thought we'd win the title if Bellamy hadn't got injured). How did Robert fare when Bellamy was out of the team in that specific period? From what I recall his game immediately suffered because the team as a whole were less effective, and he certainly didn't step up to the plate and carry the game for us. So clearly he was heavily reliant on the team as a whole being fully functional. Furthermore, his peak lasted about a season and a half, and as soon as the team started to wane in Sir Bobby's final full season, and with Souness not preferring him, Robert's game went completely down the hill. To put it simply, Robert became s*** as soon as Sir Bobby's team descended to the standard that our current team is at. Compare all of this to Hatem. Leg snapped in two so out for a year, frequently dropped and scapegoated, further injuries, has had to play in a team playing far worse hoofball than we did even under Souness, forced by his manager to track back to pretty extreme levels (something Robert never had to do, meaning less energy wasted and more opportunities to be closer to opposition goal). And then on top of all of this, having hit some fantastic form for very brief periods, he's now become a marked man because everyone knows how good he is, usually having 2 players closing him down as soon as he's on the ball (something teams never did to Robert - wonder why?). Yet he still excites most people in the ground, is often our best player when he's on the pitch, and still manages to beat multiple players and create chances or produce good balls from nothing situations. Even today, despite the attention he had and playing in an unfamiliar position, and having a poor game by his standards, he still had a few decent moments and good passes into the penalty box (the trouble being they were all to Shola Ameobi). Hatem has essentially had everything going against him, yet he's still plugging away and trying to carry the team - unlike Robert who became s*** as soon as the going got tough. Whilst I wish Hatem could cross or take a free kick like Robert, and both are/were inherently inconsistent due to being unpredictable, I still think Hatem is the comfortably superior footballer, and that whilst he may not be as good as we think/hope, we're still criminally wasting his talents by having a manager who has no idea or ability to use him effectively. And fwiw I think Sir Bobby would have used him to devastating effect because his dribbling would have been by far the best in the team. Imagine the space it would have left Dyer and Bellamy if teams decided to double/triple up on Hatem. Cracking post mate. Pleasure to read. Very good post, and one that made me think. I loved Robert, even when everyone started to turn on him. He was so direct. His left foot was wonderful. The man was my favourite player for ages. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattoon Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Robert was a cracking player for us, no doubt, but as tmonkey has so eloquently put he had a world class manager who knew how to utilise what he had and how to cover for his weaknesses by utilising the players he had in a formation that suited us and tactics that benefitted our gameplan and not neutralise the opposition! Not much Ben Arfa can do on his own with the ball sailing over his head. But he still gets me on my feet nearly every time he has the ball! I'd love to see what he could do under a decent manager. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Robert got shit soon as the going got tough? Funny I don't remember that in the countless games in which we were losing or staggering along until he changed it with a moment of brilliance. Ben Arfa wouldn't get into Bobby's side ahead of him in a million years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 While i agree with most of the points Tmonkey made. The fact of the matter is why are we comparing a left winger to a player who is best on the right cutting in and useless on the left? Ben Arfa can only really play one position and that's Solano's position. The real question is would you want Ben Arfa over Solano? i don't think i would if i'm honest. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 He's just another kieron dyer tbh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alijmitchell Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 I remember a lot of people seated round me at the match hated Robert. People genuinely had the perception of him as lazy, feckless twat. My memories of him were being consistently involved in so many of our goals, and us looking way poorer when he was out. He was a spectacularly effective player. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Ironically some of Robert's best performances as an individual came under Souness, especially during that 8 game winning streak. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alijmitchell Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 While i agree with most of the points Tmonkey made. The fact of the matter is why are we comparing a left winger to a player who is best on the right cutting in and useless on the left? Ben Arfa can only really play one position and that's Solano's position. The real question is would you want Ben Arfa over Solano? i don't think i would if i'm honest. Because they're both French? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alijmitchell Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 I'd have Solano over Ben Arfa as well Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Ironically some of Robert's best performances as an individual came under Souness, especially during that 8 game winning streak. Biggest load of shite I've ever heard this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Robert got shit soon as the going got tough? Funny I don't remember that in the countless games in which we were losing or staggering along until he changed it with a moment of brilliance. Ben Arfa wouldn't get into Bobby's side ahead of him in a million years. Robert got plenty of criticism from the pundits anyway, and Bobby was always quick to defend him. Mainly for not tracking back and being lazy, the usual stuff wingers get criticised for. Ben Arfa is a bit more greedy, but I have no doubt Bobby would have got much more out of him than the current manager. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Ironically some of Robert's best performances as an individual came under Souness, especially during that 8 game winning streak. Are you sucking on the tailpipe of your new car, HTT? Last week you were saying Shola's better than Carroll. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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