AyeDubbleYoo Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 He is better as a CM in a 4-3-3 than as a winger in a 4-4-2. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderson Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 There's really not much in it, although what he offers does differ quite a bit between the two. FWIW his best performance last season, Stoke away, came from the wing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 I feel 4-4-2 restricts his game and a prime example of this was the home game against Man City at the back end of last season. Every time he got the ball it was more in our own half as he was playing far too deep. So whenever he tried to take on Clichy as it was over such a long stretch of the field Clichy beat him for pace every time. Compare this to the 4-3-3 where he gets the ball further up the pitch and he can do what he does best, as there's probably not a better playing the league at beating somebody in tight situations in and around the box. You only have to look at what he done to Enrique when we played Liverpool to see that. In all his time playing for us I cannot remember an opposition player ever giving him as a torrid a time as he saw that day. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alberto2005 Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 I feel 4-4-2 restricts his game and a prime example of this was the home game against Man City at the back end of last season. Every time he got the ball it was more in our own half as he was playing far too deep. So whenever he tried to take on Clichy as it was over such a long stretch of the field Clichy beat him for pace every time. Compare this to the 4-3-3 where he gets the ball further up the pitch and he can do what he does best, as there's probably not a better playing the league at beating somebody in tight situations in and around the box. You only have to look at what he done to Enrique when we played Liverpool to see that. In all his time playing for us I cannot remember an opposition player ever giving him as a torrid a time as he saw that day. Yeah but Enrique had a poor season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shak Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 Thought Tooj's post was about Jonas there, didn't know what to make of it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 I feel 4-4-2 restricts his game and a prime example of this was the home game against Man City at the back end of last season. Every time he got the ball it was more in our own half as he was playing far too deep. So whenever he tried to take on Clichy as it was over such a long stretch of the field Clichy beat him for pace every time. Compare this to the 4-3-3 where he gets the ball further up the pitch and he can do what he does best, as there's probably not a better playing the league at beating somebody in tight situations in and around the box. You only have to look at what he done to Enrique when we played Liverpool to see that. In all his time playing for us I cannot remember an opposition player ever giving him as a torrid a time as he saw that day. Yeah but Enrique had a poor season. He was poor towards the back end of the season which yes was around the time we played them. However for the first half of the season he was their best player. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderson Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 He might offer more going forward in a 4-3-3, but his defensive cover in the wings (especially early doors when we had either a make-shift left back or a rookie Santon) was invaluable at times last season. I don't think there's any need to say he's definitely better here than there, one of his main strengths is his versatilely, horses for courses and all that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrettNUFC Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 Baffled to people now thinking Jonas is a better CM than winger and that's where he should play. Yes obviously in 4-3-3 formation he slots inside but that's because he isn't good enough as a forward to play up top in a 3 and never has been but he is effective still playing in a 3 man midfield. There's still no doubt though that his best position and best performances come out wide in a 4-4-2 much to where he will play this season. He's an integral member of this team but to think he's now best as CM for what ever reason is complete and utter nonsense imo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 Well that's pretty much a given considering there's nee wingers in a 4-3-3. 4-3-3 was just an example, obviously the wide berths in the front 3 would be taken up by forwards more than wingers. If i bring up every system we could possibly use i'd say in 4-3-3, 4-2-3-1, 4-3-1-2 he would be better as a CM but in 4-4-2 he's better as a winger, but overall i prefer him in the middle as his skillsets as a player fits that role better IMO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shak Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 In a 4-4-2 he's a winger and one of the first names on the team sheet, there's absolutely no debate to be had about that as far as I'm concerned. In a 4-4-2 he is a winger yes, but a very ordinary one. I think he looks much better suited to being one of the three in a 4-3-3. He just doesn't carry anywhere near enough offensive threat out wide, something you need your wide men to do in any system. In three years in the Premiership with us he's got 5 goals and 10 assists, that's absolutely wank tbf. I know statistics aren't the be all and end all but I don't think you'd argue that he's a player that really worries teams. I get that he does great work defensively, but that shouldn't excuse him being more or less hopeless in the final third. It's a major part of being a winger and he really comes up short. He's a great squad player and against the really top teams where you're going to be under pressure he's wonderful, and if we're going to be fielding a 4-3-3 then I'd have no problems with Jonas regularly starting in CM, but if we're going to try and revert to a 4-4-2 then I hope that Marveaux takes his spot on the left pretty quickly tbh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanj Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 I think the Jonas in the first season here has obvioulsy lost that same explosive acceleration and a step or 2 of his pace over the years which may have set him apart as a much better attacking threat than he is now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deuce Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 Very much a traditional LM (not winger) in a 4-4-2. A "CM" in our 4-3-3. Would have fit well with the England squad at Euro tbh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 Very much a traditional LM (not winger) in a 4-4-2. A "CM" in our 4-3-3. Would have fit well with the England squad at Euro tbh. He is from Argentina. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David28 Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 :lol: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deuce Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 Very much a traditional LM (not winger) in a 4-4-2. A "CM" in our 4-3-3. Would have fit well with the England squad at Euro tbh. He is from Argentina. http://allthingsd.com/files/2012/02/YOU_DONT_SAY.png Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 It was an amazing joke. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATB Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 I think the Jonas in the first season here has obvioulsy lost that same explosive acceleration and a step or 2 of his pace over the years which may have set him apart as a much better attacking threat than he is now. Agree. Now days he have big troubles to bet his man, too previous when he basically just made a "hit-and-run". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest henrique Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 I think the Jonas in the first season here has obvioulsy lost that same explosive acceleration and a step or 2 of his pace over the years which may have set him apart as a much better attacking threat than he is now. Agree. Now days he have big troubles to bet his man, too previous when he basically just made a "hit-and-run". Wouldn’t put a bet on it tbh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrettNUFC Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 Last summer Pardew was saying he couldn't see him playing Ben Arfa right midfield as he is number 10 who plays in behind the striker. Seemingly ben arfa has now made that right mid position his own. Do you think we are likely to see this change anytime in the season? I'm not totally convinced pardew still has him down as a wide man except when in a 4-3-3 formation or in a formation where he is basically a forward. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiresias Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 Thinkbwe may see ba and cisse played central with hba behind Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanSkÃrare Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 Hatem needs to be as free as possible in the last third. Playing three CMs behind him would enable that. I think he'll be usel differently in different games, and rightly so. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottledDog Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 Hatem needs to be as free as possible in the last third. Playing three CMs behind him would enable that. I think he'll be usel differently in different games, and rightly so. I'll just be happy to see him get more games for us than last season. Got a nagging feeling that that may not be a foregone conclusion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorin Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 Newcastle's Hatem Ben Harfa (knee) will not play, while Papiss Cisse, Demba Ba, Fabricio Coloccini, Cheik Tiote and Yohan Cabaye are either suffering from knocks or short of fitness. How real is his injury? I thought we'd somewhat start with our best eleven, I guess it's far from it.... god damnit, we need to buy a DECENT medical team instead of any player, just ridic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledGeordie Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 Is he anywhere near the bench for saturday at all or ruled out completely? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 Newcastle's Hatem Ben Harfa (knee) will not play, while Papiss Cisse, Demba Ba, Fabricio Coloccini, Cheik Tiote and Yohan Cabaye are either suffering from knocks or short of fitness. How real is his injury? I thought we'd somewhat start with our best eleven, I guess it's far from it.... god damnit, we need to buy a DECENT medical team instead of any player, just ridic. Our medical team is fine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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