Tooj Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Was Spalletti the first one to use it with Totti? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mistle17 Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 I think the idea of Ben Arfa as a 'false 9' could potentially be very successful, especially with players such as Sissoko, Marveaux, Anita, Cabaye and Gouffran behind and supporting. Besides being a tad rusty, we didn't- as a team- play high and wide enough to support Ben Arfa, creating space or dragging their defence out of shape. I've said it time and again: our transitions from defence to attack are appalling (as well as movement when in possession), and until that improves a system with Hatem as the false 9 wont fulfil its potential. Stop playing so direct, get him in between the lines, receive to face forward and support him. Then we'll start to see the benefits. We have nowhere near enough movement in our side for that to work. Aye, exactly. Until we get a coach who is capable of working with players of this calibre then its not really going anywhere, which is a massive shame. tbf the false no9 only really works when you have the calibre of xavi, bousquets, messi etc to pull it off. has anyone else worked it successfully without a very high calibre of player who have been in the system for a long time ? Think Roma did a decent job of it a few years back with Totti as the F9. They were one of the first to do it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 I don't know about PSV, but are Michu and Suarez really "false number 9s"? I don't know the exact terminology tbh, but neither of them play the same role that Messi does for Barcelona. They're an exception to the role as a whole though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest VanBarduck Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Was Spalletti the first one to use it with Totti? No Zeman did, during the lates 90's, he made him his captain too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest VanBarduck Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 I don't know about PSV, but are Michu and Suarez really "false number 9s"? I don't know the exact terminology tbh, but neither of them play the same role that Messi does for Barcelona. They're an exception to the role as a whole though. They surely don't play like Cissé or Torres or RvP would play . It's actually hard to find false number 9 , those are the only ones I could think of...perhaps Fabregas and Totti sometimes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 I don't know about PSV, but are Michu and Suarez really "false number 9s"? I don't know the exact terminology tbh, but neither of them play the same role that Messi does for Barcelona. They're an exception to the role as a whole though. Ajax. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 I don't know about PSV, but are Michu and Suarez really "false number 9s"? I don't know the exact terminology tbh, but neither of them play the same role that Messi does for Barcelona. They're an exception to the role as a whole though. Ajax. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiresias Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Hmm not sure on the false no 9 thing, not really seen the barcalona model effectively replicated, and while Michu does drop deep he is basically a striker here, he doesn't beat players like Messi does (albeit HBA can do this part) he just shoots very quickly whenever he has the chance and is very accurate. It may have to be trial by error I suppose as to which position he is going to be most prolific / get most assists / help the team Winger - Gets more space to run into, very good at short crosses into the box, still drifts into the centre a lot. Disadvantages - when we're stuck deep he becomes less involved. Has defensive duties. Traditional no 10 - Would give him chance to orchestrate the team a bit more, he's a very good passer, closer to goal, going to get more scoring opportunities, frees him up from defensive opportunities. Disadvantages include, will he work as hard as Sissoko in that position ferrying the ball out of midfield up the pitch. Will get less space, easier marked? False no 9 - Get more chances to score, and he is a good finisher, team based around getting ball to him, stops us relying on Cisse up top. Disadvantages, strange new formation will need practise and getting used to, however if we're spending time to use this formation it better work. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest VanBarduck Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Hmm not sure on the false no 9 thing, not really seen the barcalona model effectively replicated, and while Michu does drop deep he is basically a striker here, he doesn't beat players like Messi does (albeit HBA can do this part) he just shoots very quickly whenever he has the chance and is very accurate. It may have to be trial by error I suppose as to which position he is going to be most prolific / get most assists / help the team Winger - Gets more space to run into, very good at short crosses into the box, still drifts into the centre a lot. Disadvantages - when we're stuck deep he becomes less involved. Has defensive duties. Traditional no 10 - Would give him chance to orchestrate the team a bit more, he's a very good passer, closer to goal, going to get more scoring opportunities, frees him up from defensive opportunities. Disadvantages include, will he work as hard as Sissoko in that position ferrying the ball out of midfield up the pitch. Will get less space, easier marked? False no 9 - Get more chances to score, and he is a good finisher, team based around getting ball to him, stops us relying on Cisse up top. Disadvantages, strange new formation will need practise and getting used to, however if we're spending time to use this formation it better work. quite impressed with your vision , I think you're a right when you say it'll takes a lot of times to implement that formation (it even took years for the great barcelona) and the fact is we don't have that much time.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oakie Doke Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Hello Hatem, you're quite good at turning me on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBG Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Was Spalletti the first one to use it with Totti? He didn't have the meat balls to do it first. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AY Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 I think he is most effective as a right sided forward. Not as a traditional winger and can drift/cut in to his favoured left, with Debuchy overlapping it would sound a great right wing to have. Debuchy is so good going forward that defenders can´t double up on Hatem so much anymore. Why change it when it worked last season? I think he is not and will not be an effective false 9, because he likes to hold the ball up a lot and slow down the play too much when central.. Still, a great player to have and hope he stays fit and with us for years to come. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Hungary were the first team to use it in the 50s with Puskas etc etc and the next most famous one is Ajax with Cruyff. Its not anything new, its just something that went away for a while, probably the most famous use of it in the modern era outside of Messi is Totti at Roma. Also Michu is not a false 9, he doesn't drop deep and dictate the game anywhere near enough to be considered one, although he is a AM when he plays as a striker he is a full blown 9. Its definitely something we can look into, but if we are do so then we need better possession recycling and movement and Sissoko and Hatem should look to swap positions on the regular. I have to wonder if this has been in Pardew's thinking for a while considering our links with Siem De Jong. But if it is something in Pardew's plans then we need to get better wide players, as quite frankly in such a style of play and system only Gouffran really is fit to succeed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 I think he is most effective as a right sided forward. Not as a traditional winger and can drift/cut in to his favoured left, with Debuchy overlapping it would sound a great right wing to have. Debuchy is so good going forward that defenders can´t double up on Hatem so much anymore. Why change it when it worked last season? I think he is not and will not be an effective false 9, because he likes to hold the ball up a lot and slow down the play too much when central.. Still, a great player to have and hope he stays fit and with us for years to come. Yep, the addition of Debuchy is going to make HBA much harder to stop, and also provide width when he cuts inside. He can interchange with Sissoko as well when comes out to the right. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest VanBarduck Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 I have to wonder if this has been in Pardew's thinking for a while considering our links with Siem De Jong. He's the missing piece of Pardew's master plan to dominate EPL Seriously , I hope it's true and we could sign him this summer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 I think the idea of Ben Arfa as a 'false 9' could potentially be very successful, especially with players such as Sissoko, Marveaux, Anita, Cabaye and Gouffran behind and supporting. Besides being a tad rusty, we didn't- as a team- play high and wide enough to support Ben Arfa, creating space or dragging their defence out of shape. I've said it time and again: our transitions from defence to attack are appalling (as well as movement when in possession), and until that improves a system with Hatem as the false 9 wont fulfil its potential. Stop playing so direct, get him in between the lines, receive to face forward and support him. Then we'll start to see the benefits. We have nowhere near enough movement in our side for that to work. Aye, exactly. Until we get a coach who is capable of working with players of this calibre then its not really going anywhere, which is a massive shame. tbf the false no9 only really works when you have the calibre of xavi, bousquets, messi etc to pull it off. has anyone else worked it successfully without a very high calibre of player who have been in the system for a long time ? Think Roma did a decent job of it a few years back with Totti as the F9. They were one of the first to do it? i always saw totti as a through the middle striker who just wasn't big so it was pointless punting him high balls and was adept at dropping a bit deeper at times in the hope it could release a team mate to get beyond him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 He is what he is, we can't applaud the half-pitch solo goals etc and also scream at him to do the basics. Would have been amazing if it had worked. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Spiria Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 On the Daily Mail they say that he may miss Stoke match ?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varadi Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Hatem Ben Arfa returned from Russia with more than an hour of his first game for two months, but with a dead leg which leaves him doubtful for Stoke City’s visit to St James’s Park. Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2290390/Hatem-Ben-Arfa-miss-match-Stoke.html#ixzz2MzIKiIG9 Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiresias Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Oh ffs Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledGeordie Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Yeah just read that myself, what a cunt if that's true Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 No idea why he was played in those ridiculous conditions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Spiria Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Read today : "I feel well" and some hours later : "dead leg" xD Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Daily Mail? i think i'll wait for the club say something before i get worried. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiresias Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Well Stoke isn't the most important game for him to be fit for, we should have enough without him Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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