Hatem Ben Arfa

[Hanshithispantz]

Whatever Pardew's choices have been with Ben Arfa this season, like other seasons, it's likely he's played a blinder.

[Teasy]

He hasn't been "awful recently" at all. How many bad games has he had in his favourite position this season? 1 bad game against Hull after 3 brilliant, match winning ones and he's dropped then moved all over the pitch.

 

Maybe we should put Remy on the right wing next game and see how quickly we turn on him when he plays badly or just "doesn't track back"?

In my opinion he has been awful recently. I've already explained that I think Pardew moved Ben Arfa up front to keep him in the team. He wasn't doing his defensive duties on the right wing so he was moved where he didn't have to do as much defensive work. Some people had been clamouring to see Ben Arfa up front. It didn't work. He needs to be right wing and he needs to pass when it's a better option than running at 3 defenders. He also needs to do his defensive duties.

 

I can understand people defending Ben Arfa but they should also admit when he hasn't played well. This thread is about Ben Arfa. Other players have also had bad games but that's to discuss in their threads.

 

Following two match winning performances on right wing he had one bad game and was immediately removed.  Given half a game on left wing during a all round poor performance from the whole side before being dropped entirely.  Since than he's been used in a position totally foreign to him and when he hasn't done great their he's dropped again.  Think it would have been far better to simply have a word with him after the Hull game to remind him that he can't fall asleep defensively but show faith in him by keeping him in his best position.

 

Ben Arfa does often try to do a bit too much, but I also think he's expected to do more than anyone else.  Also think the whole "Ben Arfa often loses the ball" thing is bollocks frankly.

[LoveItIfWeBeatU]

I wouldn't have subbed Ben Arfa on against Chelsea at the time Obertan went on. Ben Arfa is as liable to lose the ball as he is to do something amazing with it. Obertan is s*** but as with all pacey players, the opposition have to bare them in mind just in case they do get in behind. At that point in the game Obertan was brought on as a get out ball. Punt it out and he will chase after it.

 

I like Hatem Ben Arfa a lot but he has been awful recently. He certainly hasn't been a 6/10. He was played out of position up front but that was probably because he wasn't doing the defensive work when he was on the right wing. I think Pardew wants him in the team (hence why he played him as a false number 9) but he wants him to give 100% going backwards as well as forwards (as other wingers do at other teams). If he isn't going to do the defensive work the right back behind him can't go forward.

 

Ben Arfa needs to learn when to pass. I can't believe Pardew tells him to try to beat the whole opposition team on his own. Also, the rest of the team need to offer movement so Ben Arfa has options to pass to.

 

Ben Arfa is liable to lose the ball more than Obertan?, give over.  As far as out ball, clearly that was Pardew's thinking but it was quite flawed, as Ben Arfa's a far better out ball than Obertan.

 

Every time he got it in that kind of situation he either got tackled straight away, fell over it or passed it to the opposition.  Chelsea hardly had to do much chasing like.. so he was entirely useless as an out ball.  Some decent interplay with Anita for the second goal but other than that he was terrible.  I'd bet my house that if Ben Arfa had gotten the ball on the break like he did on more than one occasion he'd have made Chelsea do much more chasing and would have given if away less as well.

Obertan wasn't brought on to hold the ball up. He was brought on to chase the out ball. He can definitely run faster than Ben Arfa. He was involved in the 2nd goal so the substitution worked.

 

No point betting your house on what might have happened if Ben Arfa had come on. He didn't so we'll never know.

[Teasy]

Anyone can chase the ball a bit, if they lose it the moment they get it they're no good to anyone.  He didn't even put much pressure on Chelsea's midfielders/strikers either.  Like I said he had one decent moment with a bit of interplay with Anita and the rest of the time he was absolutely useless.  Had the ball in good positions three or four times (none of which he even had to chase down) where you'd want him to push us forward.  Fell over the ball once, got tackled almost immediately once or twice and passed it straight to a Chelsea player another time.  I've seen enough of Ben Arfa to know he would have made much better use of those moments.

 

I don't dislike Obertan BTW, just believe that the theory of him being a good out ball for us due to being able to run fast is flawed because he's a poor Footballer.  Also in no way did he do that job anywhere close to successfully when he came on against Chelsea.

[Matt]

I cannot fathom how anyone can think Obertan is ever a better option than Ben Arfa. Obertan is as bad a player I have seen in the shirt since Wayne Quinn.

[DJ_NUFC]

First of all, I have no idea what 'out ball' is.

 

Secondly, no matter kind of ball it is one is supposed to be chasing, or something, HBA can do it better ten times over than Ober-me-nan can. He was a farce against Chelsea when he came on and looked like he hadn't played even 5-a-side football for more than 5 years. How the hell do you trip over the ball or leave it behind you so many times in less than 10 mins?

[LoveItIfWeBeatU]

Anyone can chase the ball a bit, if they lose it the moment they get it they're no good to anyone.  He didn't even put much pressure on Chelsea's midfielders/strikers either.  Like I said he had one decent moment with a bit of interplay with Anita and the rest of the time he was absolutely useless.  Had the ball in good positions three or four times (none of which he even had to chase down) where you'd want him to push us forward.  Fell over the ball once, got tackled almost immediately once or twice and passed it straight to a Chelsea player another time.  I've seen enough of Ben Arfa to know he would have made much better use of those moments.

 

I don't dislike Obertan BTW, just believe that the theory of him being a good out ball for us due to being able to run fast is flawed because he's a poor Footballer.  Also in no way did he do that job anywhere close to successfully when he came on against Chelsea.

I said I wouldn't have brought Ben Arfa on. I can understand the logic (however flawed) of bringing Obertan on at the time he came on. That doesn't mean that is what I'd have done if I was the manager. I never said I thought Obertan was better option than Ben Arfa. Ben Arfa could have danced through the Chelsea defence and scored. He could just as easily taken on 3 Chelsea defenders and lost the ball with the result being a Chelsea attack on our goal.

 

We won the game and substitution worked out in our favour.

 

People over hype Ben Arfa up. He isn't Messi or Ronaldo. I remember when most people thought he was going to rip Hull to shreds. We all know he didn't. All I'm saying is have some perspective about him. He isn't perfect and if he doesn't have a good game it isn't always someone else's fault. I'm sure no one would complain if Ben Arfa became more consistent, worked harder defending and actually passed to a team mate when it's probably the best option.

[DJ_NUFC]

If the fact that we're leaving our best player in the cold doesn't bother people in the slightest, then it totally makes sense they're happy with Pardew and the current regime, even willing to tolerate them or 'give them time.'

 

What is it about people getting the leaders they deserve?

[LoveItIfWeBeatU]

Ben Arfa is our best player on paper. Sometimes he's great (Fulham, Aston Villa) and sometimes he isn't (Hull, etc). He isn't consistent. At the moment I'd say our best player is Remy.

[BrettNUFC]

It's hard to argue his case when he's been dropped twice this season and we've won twice, along with him being hauled off at half time and we won second half 2-0. Everyone knows it's wonderful to see Ben Arfa and we miss watching him but as long as we are winning games, it's hard to argue against the decisions being made. And i fucking love Hatem Ben Arfa, us winning doesn’t make me miss him any less because I still wish he would play every minute of every game for us.

[Spudil]

It's hard to argue his case when he's been dropped twice this season and we've won twice, along with him being hauled off at half time and we won second half 2-0. Everyone knows it's wonderful to see Ben Arfa and we miss watching him but as long as we are winning games, it's hard to argue against the decisions being made. And i f***ing love Hatem Ben Arfa, us winning doesn’t make me miss him any less because I still wish he would play every minute of every game for us.

 

Aye pretty much nobody in history has ever pointed out or noticed that causation and correlation are not the same thing.

 

Carry on, Brett.

[Jack Flash]

If the fact that we're leaving our best player in the cold doesn't bother people in the slightest, then it totally makes sense they're happy with Pardew and the current regime, even willing to tolerate them or 'give them time.'

 

What is it about people getting the leaders they deserve?

 

Too many people believe the Pardaganda "tracking back" bollocks. Good attacking teams (which Pardle wants us to be apparently) can have players who don't need to defend for half the game.

 

It's funny how most people complain when he's got the ball in his own half (we're too defensive!) yet complain when he doesn't track back (we're too attacking!).

[cp40]

If he produced his best form in most games the people crying for him in this thread may have a valid argument. BUT he doesnt.

[Jack Flash]

If he produced his best form in most games the people crying for him in this thread may have a valid argument. BUT he doesnt.

 

How many of our players do?

[Spudil]

If he produced his best form in most games the people crying for him in this thread may have a valid argument. BUT he doesnt.

 

Producing your "best" form in "most" games means you a on a hot streak. Like Ramsey right now.

[Tiotes Witch Doctor]

Hasn't put in the effort required this season and still wants it to be all about him, the slightest ridiculous sniff of goal and he would go for it rather than laying it off to someone who is in a much better position.

 

Everyone bangs on about him playing "in the hole" but I think his best performances for us having been at RW, however against better teams we need more players who are willing to to the graft defensively aswell as offensively, that's not approaching the game in a negative manner thats just fact.

 

Needs to prove himself off the bench for now and work hard in training if he wants his place back, everyone knows he's the most gifted and talented player in our team when hes in the mood.

[cp40]

If he produced his best form in most games the people crying for him in this thread may have a valid argument. BUT he doesnt.

 

Producing your "best" form in "most" games means you a on a hot streak. Like Ramsey right now.

 

 

what I meant was, If he offers little work/ helping team mates. he needs to offer more in attack more often, instead of constantly trying to beat too many people and losing the ball.

[BrettNUFC]

If he produced his best form in most games the people crying for him in this thread may have a valid argument. BUT he doesnt.

 

I'm not crying because we are winning. Start losing and i'll be crying for him back in the side. I still want him in the side regardless and miss watching him but win matches and there won't be tears from me.

 

Others differ, even if we win will say we would have won by more had HBA played and that's Pardew's fault, just opinions.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

You cannot fail genius...Genius can only fail itself.

 

Superb line that! Couldn't agree more!

[Guest Howaythetoon]

Why does HBA have to prove himself over and over again whereas other crapheads waltz into the team at the drop of a hat? Why is he held to an insane standard whereas others around him are not? All questions which will not be answered of course. That Tevez and Mascherano duo was also not used to English football, like.

 

Cause Pardarse has no clue how to handle genius. It's almost like he has to score a wonder goal a game to stay in the side. This side?!...This piffling nonsense of a side with its whiny voice and routine pathetic cold starts like an 80's French car....Hit and miss, fearful and hesitant with odd flashes that are a must to feign gainful employment. All I can say is that we've been very lucky to get Remy and that Cabaye was woken from his Cinderella sleep by that phone call and his impending doom as an Arsenal 'reserve'.

Pardew it must be noted is most 'chirpy' when talking about 'energy' and battling and 'picking ourselves up'...All the language of a limited coach drowning in his own sell-by-date.

 

You need to post more in this section. Your last points sum Pardew up exactly.

[Lotus]

If he produced his best form in most games the people crying for him in this thread may have a valid argument. BUT he doesnt.

 

I'm not crying because we are winning. Start losing and i'll be crying for him back in the side. I still want him in the side regardless and miss watching him but win matches and there won't be tears from me.

 

Others differ, even if we win will say we would have won by more had HBA played and that's Pardew's fault, just opinions.

 

Yeah! This hot winning streak of.....er.....1 that we're on. Smoking !!!

[Segun Oluwaniyi]

Nothing is worse for a player like Ben Arfa than the complacency of knowing you will be picked no matter what. He has been poor in the last few matches and has hurt the team. The dropping was completely warranted. He will come back from it.

[BrettNUFC]

If he produced his best form in most games the people crying for him in this thread may have a valid argument. BUT he doesnt.

 

I'm not crying because we are winning. Start losing and i'll be crying for him back in the side. I still want him in the side regardless and miss watching him but win matches and there won't be tears from me.

 

Others differ, even if we win will say we would have won by more had HBA played and that's Pardew's fault, just opinions.

 

Yeah! This hot winning streak of.....er.....1 that we're on. Smoking !!!

 

Where exactly did I say winning streak? I said in the post before that it's two games, two wins without him in the side so keep that up and I'm not kicking up a fuss over it if we win, winning matches is all that counts regardless of who is playing. If you want to win then moan at Pardew for benching HBA, feel free.

[DJ_NUFC]

Where does it say we cannot suggest improvements to a side after they've won a game or two? In fact, it's exactly this bullshit sing-while-you're-winning aura that protected Pardew's weaknesses as a manager from coming to light in the season we finished 5th. We almost fucking got relegated the next season. Maybe some of those dissenting voices should've been given more credence.

[Guest icemanblue]

Nothing is worse for a player like Ben Arfa than the complacency of knowing you will be picked no matter what. He has been poor in the last few matches and has hurt the team. The dropping was completely warranted. He will come back from it.

 

Yep.