Hatem Ben Arfa

[Wullie]

Sensible article from the Chronicle after the Palace game: http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/neil-cameron-magic-hatem-ben-6444424

[triggs]

His performances the last two matches perfectly exemplify the issues some have with Ben Arfa. Arguably at his best against Stoke because he was creating chances without taking needless risks. Today, when we needed a goal, he reverted to making those runs that prove so detrimental to overall team play. Needs to stop taking the team on his shoulders when we're down, because he's not good enough to win matches on his own.

His runs worked today

 

Clearly.

A clear example of "if he doesn't score a goal or assist in his limited pitch time he's failed"

 

This is genuinely baffling to me, hence me rambling on like a cock end in this thread.

 

Not what I was suggesting, but I do think he negates our other players when he takes things on his shoulders. Even if he does have limited success doing so.

 

It wasn't his worst game, but if he had played more patiently, I think we would've had more chances.

Like all those chances we had without him.

[Wullie]

His performances the last two matches perfectly exemplify the issues some have with Ben Arfa. Arguably at his best against Stoke because he was creating chances without taking needless risks. Today, when we needed a goal, he reverted to making those runs that prove so detrimental to overall team play. Needs to stop taking the team on his shoulders when we're down, because he's not good enough to win matches on his own.

His runs worked today

 

Clearly.

A clear example of "if he doesn't score a goal or assist in his limited pitch time he's failed"

 

This is genuinely baffling to me, hence me rambling on like a cock end in this thread.

 

Not what I was suggesting, but I do think he negates our other players when he takes things on his shoulders. Even if he does have limited success doing so.

 

It wasn't his worst game, but if he had played more patiently, I think we would've had more chances.

 

You want him to play patiently when we're 1-0 down and into injury time?

[Mick]

 

 

It's frightening that you even have to spend the time typing that out, it's so f***ing obvious.

 

How many times has Pardew talked about getting to 60-70 minutes and then putting the "magic" on? Yet the fans who support this type of gameplan also seem to want that "magic" to consist of either sensible passes backwards, or clipping it into Shola from the halfway line.

 

Did I imagine Shola going down for a header in the Arsenal box and heading it away from goal? 

[Deuce]

His performances the last two matches perfectly exemplify the issues some have with Ben Arfa. Arguably at his best against Stoke because he was creating chances without taking needless risks. Today, when we needed a goal, he reverted to making those runs that prove so detrimental to overall team play. Needs to stop taking the team on his shoulders when we're down, because he's not good enough to win matches on his own.

Although I do (violently) disagree that those runs are detrimental to the team's overall play I do agree that he needs to stop trying to win games by himself. He only tends to do that though when he's brought on pretty much to do that. We know and Pardew know exactly what he's going to do when he comes on. 9 times out of 10 he'll skin the fullback and either come inside on his left foot and try to score a thunderbastard, or he'll drop one short from the byline to anyone making a run to the 6 yard box.

 

He isn't involved in game plan any other way, that's what he's brought on to do. He's far more patient with the ball when he's allowed to see a game out from the start and is likely instructed to be so. That's why I find it baffling that Marveaux never makes a cameo now and then when we need a goal.

 

Exactly. Which is why there was a good argument for starting him today, especially on the heels of his performance against Stoke. Though there was also merit in trying to replicate the style and tactics from the ManU game.

[Skirge]

Wenger looked like he was trying to tap him up before he came on

[Deuce]

His performances the last two matches perfectly exemplify the issues some have with Ben Arfa. Arguably at his best against Stoke because he was creating chances without taking needless risks. Today, when we needed a goal, he reverted to making those runs that prove so detrimental to overall team play. Needs to stop taking the team on his shoulders when we're down, because he's not good enough to win matches on his own.

His runs worked today

 

Clearly.

A clear example of "if he doesn't score a goal or assist in his limited pitch time he's failed"

 

This is genuinely baffling to me, hence me rambling on like a cock end in this thread.

 

Not what I was suggesting, but I do think he negates our other players when he takes things on his shoulders. Even if he does have limited success doing so.

 

It wasn't his worst game, but if he had played more patiently, I think we would've had more chances.

 

You want him to play patiently when we're 1-0 down and into injury time?

 

He came on in the 62nd minute...

[Wullie]

His performances the last two matches perfectly exemplify the issues some have with Ben Arfa. Arguably at his best against Stoke because he was creating chances without taking needless risks. Today, when we needed a goal, he reverted to making those runs that prove so detrimental to overall team play. Needs to stop taking the team on his shoulders when we're down, because he's not good enough to win matches on his own.

His runs worked today

 

Clearly.

A clear example of "if he doesn't score a goal or assist in his limited pitch time he's failed"

 

This is genuinely baffling to me, hence me rambling on like a cock end in this thread.

 

Not what I was suggesting, but I do think he negates our other players when he takes things on his shoulders. Even if he does have limited success doing so.

 

It wasn't his worst game, but if he had played more patiently, I think we would've had more chances.

 

You want him to play patiently when we're 1-0 down and into injury time?

 

He came on in the 62nd minute...

 

And when did he hit the side netting and hit the shot over the bar?

[Newcastle Fan]

He was brought on to try and create something, and that's exactly what he did, today it didn't come off but on another day it will, really think he should be starting.

[triggs]

His performances the last two matches perfectly exemplify the issues some have with Ben Arfa. Arguably at his best against Stoke because he was creating chances without taking needless risks. Today, when we needed a goal, he reverted to making those runs that prove so detrimental to overall team play. Needs to stop taking the team on his shoulders when we're down, because he's not good enough to win matches on his own.

His runs worked today

 

Clearly.

A clear example of "if he doesn't score a goal or assist in his limited pitch time he's failed"

 

This is genuinely baffling to me, hence me rambling on like a cock end in this thread.

 

Not what I was suggesting, but I do think he negates our other players when he takes things on his shoulders. Even if he does have limited success doing so.

 

It wasn't his worst game, but if he had played more patiently, I think we would've had more chances.

 

You want him to play patiently when we're 1-0 down and into injury time?

 

He came on in the 62nd minute...

The only impatient moment I saw from him was in the last minute. Before that he was winning corners and playing sensibly

[Deuce]

His performances the last two matches perfectly exemplify the issues some have with Ben Arfa. Arguably at his best against Stoke because he was creating chances without taking needless risks. Today, when we needed a goal, he reverted to making those runs that prove so detrimental to overall team play. Needs to stop taking the team on his shoulders when we're down, because he's not good enough to win matches on his own.

His runs worked today

 

Clearly.

A clear example of "if he doesn't score a goal or assist in his limited pitch time he's failed"

 

This is genuinely baffling to me, hence me rambling on like a cock end in this thread.

 

Not what I was suggesting, but I do think he negates our other players when he takes things on his shoulders. Even if he does have limited success doing so.

 

It wasn't his worst game, but if he had played more patiently, I think we would've had more chances.

 

You want him to play patiently when we're 1-0 down and into injury time?

 

He came on in the 62nd minute...

 

And when did he hit the side netting and hit the shot over the bar?

 

I never said his 'selfish' play doesn't ever produce. Sometimes it does. Majority of the time, it doesn't. Wasn't his worst performance, certainly wasn't his best.

[cp40]

For those calling for him to get a full 90 mins. Do you seriously think he could try and take the opposition on every time for a full 90 mins? and not tire and start to lose the ball even more.

[triggs]

For those calling for him to get a full 90 mins. Do you seriously think he could try and take the opposition on every time for a full 90 mins? and not tire and start to lose the ball even more.

He wouldn't have to chase the game if he started

[Hanshithispantz]

So does his 'unselfish' play produce the majority of the time? Say if instead of trying to run at the opposition he lays the ball of to Tiote or Sissoko, or punts one forward to Shola, or swings one from deep to Remy? Do we regularly benefit from that? Not just Ben Arfa, but from every other player doing that for 90 minutes and us still not creating anything?

 

The best chance of the game was probably Ben Arfa's near post strike that he unfortunately didn't connect with properly. After making Flamini look like a total mug.

[Deuce]

For those calling for him to get a full 90 mins. Do you seriously think he could try and take the opposition on every time for a full 90 mins? and not tire and start to lose the ball even more.

 

Well that's what Hans was saying. He plays far better when he's given time to settle and not tasked with winning the game by himself. So yeah, Pardew does deserve some of the blame for bringing him on and essentially telling him to make something happen on his own.

[Hanshithispantz]

For those calling for him to get a full 90 mins. Do you seriously think he could try and take the opposition on every time for a full 90 mins? and not tire and start to lose the ball even more.

No. I don't think anyone actually wants him to do that either

 

He wouldn't be rushed into trying that is the point. With 90 minutes ahead of you and the game tied at 0-0 you can afford to be a lot more patient with the ball.

[Mick]

For those calling for him to get a full 90 mins. Do you seriously think he could try and take the opposition on every time for a full 90 mins? and not tire and start to lose the ball even more.

 

Jesus wept, who else does that?

[Ikon]

Some people seem to forget what HBA is capable of when in form and given trust. And imo he was "on his way" to get back to his best against Stoke.

[jimmymag]

If he's got any sense, he'll be looking for a new club. He'll never reach his full potential under Pardew.

[Skirge]

------Mouss----Tiote----Cabs---

Benny------------------------Gouff

----------------Remy

[Deuce]

So does his 'unselfish' play produce the majority of the time? Say if instead of trying to run at the opposition he lays the ball of to Tiote or Sissoko, or punts one forward to Shola, or swings one from deep to Remy? Do we regularly benefit from that? Not just Ben Arfa, but from every other player doing that for 90 minutes and us still not creating anything?

 

The best chance of the game was probably Ben Arfa's near post strike that he unfortunately didn't connect with properly. After making Flamini look like a total mug.

 

You can be an effective creative player without making runs with the ball from 40 yards out or trying to dribble around the entire midfield (which are just the most extreme examples of his 'selfish' play). There's merit to holding the ball and waiting for the right pass instead of turning and bolting. And yeah, he's definitely good enough to make a couple guys miss here and there.

 

Ben Arfa is the most gifted player we have, you won't hear otherwise from me. He just needs to play smarter.

[Barnes23]

If he's got any sense, he'll be looking for a new club. He'll never reach his full potential under Pardew.

 

Sad but true. Hate how Pardew is failing to realise the potential of our best team in a decade.

[Guest palnese]

If he's got any sense, he'll be looking for a new club. He'll never reach his full potential under Pardew.

[Deuce]

If he's got any sense, he'll be looking for a new club. He'll never reach his full potential under Pardew.

 

Sad but true. Hate how Pardew is failing to realise the potential of our best team in a decade.

 

A bit hyperbolic, considering the results over the past two months.

[Hanshithispantz]

So does his 'unselfish' play produce the majority of the time? Say if instead of trying to run at the opposition he lays the ball of to Tiote or Sissoko, or punts one forward to Shola, or swings one from deep to Remy? Do we regularly benefit from that? Not just Ben Arfa, but from every other player doing that for 90 minutes and us still not creating anything?

 

The best chance of the game was probably Ben Arfa's near post strike that he unfortunately didn't connect with properly. After making Flamini look like a total mug.

 

You can be an effective creative player without making runs with the ball from 40 yards out or trying to dribble around the entire midfield (which are just the most extreme examples of his 'selfish' play). There's merit to holding the ball and waiting for the right pass instead of turning and bolting. And yeah, he's definitely good enough to make a couple guys miss here and there.

 

Ben Arfa is the most gifted player we have, you won't hear otherwise for me. He just needs to play smarter.

I think we mostly agree like, so it's pointless me picking up on little pieces

 

As I said it's the reason I view Marveaux as a smarter choice from the bench with 30 minutes to go than Ben Arfa (who should be on the pitch to begin with). He'll play like there's no time on the clock.