Guest hatem garrincha Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Cisse's underrated in terms of his general play, he's useful with the ball at his feet, he played a lovely through ball to Ba in the second. I think he's played relatively well of late. Agree. Ba's very good finisher but Cissé is a better footballer and we saw last season that he's not less effective than Ba in term of goals when he's used in his natural position, centrally. Ba is just stronger in the dressing room. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 His movement suits the nr 9 role in a team that plays it on the deck perfectly. He's always looking for space and causing confusion, even if he's offside at times. Always goes for rebounds as well. None of this comes into play when he's on the wing. He's not quick, he's not a dribbler, he's not a target man, he's not a particularly good crosser. He's an out and out goalscorer. It's like trying to play Huntelaar on the wing. It's basically as stupid as playing Shola there for that matter, just minus the goalscoring. For me, he's better than Ba in terms of finding space. Ba creates his own space with his physique. Great assessment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smal Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 It really should be simple to see. Is Ba better than Cissé wide? Yes. Is Cissé better than Ba central on his own? Arguable. Some would say yes, some no. From that you can pretty much see which way round they should be playing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 His movement suits the nr 9 role in a team that plays it on the deck perfectly. He's always looking for space and causing confusion, even if he's offside at times. Always goes for rebounds as well. None of this comes into play when he's on the wing. He's not quick, he's not a dribbler, he's not a target man, he's not a particularly good crosser. He's an out and out goalscorer. It's like trying to play Huntelaar on the wing. It's basically as stupid as playing Shola there for that matter, just minus the goalscoring. For me, he's better than Ba in terms of finding space. Ba creates his own space with his physique. Milan used to play Huntelaar on the wing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Ba creates nothing with his physique in fairness. He usually falls over when he goes shoulder to shoulder. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 His movement suits the nr 9 role in a team that plays it on the deck perfectly. He's always looking for space and causing confusion, even if he's offside at times. Always goes for rebounds as well. None of this comes into play when he's on the wing. He's not quick, he's not a dribbler, he's not a target man, he's not a particularly good crosser. He's an out and out goalscorer. It's like trying to play Huntelaar on the wing. It's basically as stupid as playing Shola there for that matter, just minus the goalscoring. For me, he's better than Ba in terms of finding space. Ba creates his own space with his physique. Milan used to play Huntelaar on the wing. I bet that wasn't a painful watch in the slightest. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanSkÃrare Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Ba creates nothing with his physique in fairness. He usually falls over when he goes shoulder to shoulder. He's decent at holding off defenders and riding challenges while trying to shoot. Wrestles himself into opportunities quite a bit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 He's probably out of confidence because he's stuck on the wing. The man is a goal machine, wonder how Shearer or Ferdinand would have faired if they were stuck out wide. It's not like he has any of the qualities to play out there at all. Imagine if you scored 12 in 13 then got told "actually your going on wing for a bit, our other striker wants to be the main man" I'd be furious. Isn't that essentially what we told Ba in the second half of last season though..? Aye, with one key difference in the outcome..... That's not the point is it? Also, isn't it a bit early to claim Cisse out wide in a front 3 doesn't work and Ba does? It's been two matches we've tried Cisse out wide, and one of those we won and played well overall, including Cisse. Either way, sacrificing an in form striker for a completely out of form one sounds like madness to me, so for the time being it's Ba's place to lose and Cisse out wide or not in the first team at all, which might be an even better option as we arguably have better options out wide. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 In the last couple of matches Cisse has been far closer to the touchline than I can remember Ba ever being last season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 In the last couple of matches Cisse has been far closer to the touchline than Ba ever was IIRC. With that midlly bemused look on his face. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 He's also managed to be offside far more aswell IIRC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 I wish I could believe that the coaching staff were working with him to improve his tendency to stray offside but I suspect they're too busy telling him what to do if the opposition break. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smal Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 He's also managed to be offside far more aswell IIRC offside a huge 3 times in his last two games Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 He's also managed to be offside far more aswell IIRC offside a huge 3 times in his last two games Offside is always massively exaggerated as a problem. It's just a function of a striker who tries to run in behind, it happens to everyone. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
afar Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 He's also managed to be offside far more aswell IIRC offside a huge 3 times in his last two games Offside is always massively exaggerated as a problem. It's just a function of a striker who tries to run in behind, it happens to everyone. Yep but some of the offsides Cisse gets are pretty comical, shows no understanding of how the offside rule works. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 He's also managed to be offside far more aswell IIRC offside a huge 3 times in his last two games Offside is always massively exaggerated as a problem. It's just a function of a striker who tries to run in behind, it happens to everyone. Not with Shola it isn't. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 He's also managed to be offside far more aswell IIRC We get it, dude. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beren Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 He's also managed to be offside far more aswell IIRC offside a huge 3 times in his last two games Offside is always massively exaggerated as a problem. It's just a function of a striker who tries to run in behind, it happens to everyone. Bit of a misleading stat though. If he's offside, that means his teammates are less likely to play a ball to him. It doesn't go to his 'offside count', but continues to cause us problems. Eg. Bigi's goal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themanupstairs Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Actually if you notice his runs, he strays offside to lose his markers at times, and tries to get back on. We don't pick him out with precise passes timed to his runs. The one time it worked perfectly that I can remember recently was when Anita played it to him, either at Southampton or Stoke, can't really remember. It was his first chance of the game and he fluffed it completely. But that's the kind of service he needs. He needs someone to pick him out first time and play it into his path. The guy is not a blithering fool. He's just not clicking with our supply line. They are on different planets so to speak. Having said that, he should have spotted it by now that those behind him won't give him the ball the way he wants, and should adjust his game for that. If he can't win it in the air, he should be ready to pounce on the loose ball. I haven't seen him try something different yet, knowing that he's in a bit of a rut. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beren Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Disagree with you manupstairs. He tries to get back on when he realises there is a reason the midfielder isn't passing to him. Until then he seems oblivious to the defence's line (this season) IMO. Although, thinking back, I seem to recall a few of his goals last season being offside but standing. I'm not calling him a blithering fool or anything, but he doesn't even begin looking along the line until the crucial few seconds are upon him (at which point it is too late). It's an area of his game he needs to develop - and fast. Hopefully our attacking coach specialists will have a word... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themanupstairs Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Disagree with you manupstairs. He tries to get back on when he realises there is a reason the midfielder isn't passing to him. Until then he seems oblivious to the defence's line (this season) IMO. Although, thinking back, I seem to recall a few of his goals last season being offside but standing. I'm not calling him a blithering fool or anything, but he doesn't even begin looking along the line until the crucial few seconds are upon him (at which point it is too late). It's an area of his game he needs to develop - and fast. Hopefully our attacking coach specialists will have a word... I just don't think a first class top division striker doesn't care about being offside. This is what it looks like on some occasions. Take for example that time when Ba played him in from the right channel and he didn't adjust his run. I reckon Cisse thought Ba would carry the ball further up the field before playing him in which is why he raced ahead to make sure he stays clear of his marker before checking his run. It's frustrating as fuck, and it's to the detriment of the team. But imo it's a symptom of our lack of attacking structure rather than a cause of it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tollemache Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Know what people mean about him being offside, whatever the stats say. And those times he has been flagged, I remember thinking to myself they were silly ones. Fair point about the supply line though. The same thing goes for management in that fans can be very quick to suggest that these professionals have no idea what they're doing when you should probably be looking for every other possible factor first. Which is more likely for example: Pardew is an idiot who likes taking his best players off when he's losing, or Ben Arfa is struggling a bit for fitness? With Cisse's being offside though, I can see it being a combination of the pass not coming when he wants it, and him being over-eager to get free because he feels he needs a great chance in order to score. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TherealnorthernTOON Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 It is quite evident that Cisse is not on the same wavelenght as the supply. More often then not the final pass to him is timed badly. At times he stops his run before the pass as he deems the chance scoundered for him, at times he has ran to far as the pass never came. Playing the game he likes requires alot of the supply line and that is hampered by confidence. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanji Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Proper loving tollemache's posts man. where the fuck did you come from? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Duper Branko Strupar Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 He's also managed to be offside far more aswell IIRC offside a huge 3 times in his last two games Offside is always massively exaggerated as a problem. It's just a function of a striker who tries to run in behind, it happens to everyone. Bit of a misleading stat though. If he's offside, that means his teammates are less likely to play a ball to him. It doesn't go to his 'offside count', but continues to cause us problems. Eg. Bigi's goal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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