sunderland

[Hanshithispantz]

it's disturbing the way people will throw away everything they believe in, in order to protect something else, like the parent who denies their child can do any wrong despite what they witness.

 

we've seen it before to a lesser degree, liverpool fans defence of suarez and to an even lesser degree the defence on here of andy carroll (ie doesn't matter what he does providing he's playing well for us) but this seems to be on a differing scale and I'm not 100% sure many of our fans wouldn't have reacted in a similar manner.

 

disappointed but not at all surprised that a good few view things that way but a bit taken aback at how many. roles reveresed I wouldn't be going.

 

I think it's quite clear from this thread that among our own ranks we've got a fair few nuggets who would have defended this appointment, had it been us who'd made it.

There is a difference though in people defending the appointment and people defending the man and what he stands for. A lot of mackems seem to be defending the latter which is just fucking weird.

 

Ultimately if he does well at the club and keeps his personal views private this will all be forgotten about by next season imo. He's just a daft bloke with silly opinions, not a tyrant.

 

I dunno. Seems to me that what the appointment, and SAFC's defence of it, will do is say, "It's fine to appoint someone who calls himself a fascist and does Nazi salutes in public." It validates the idea of fascism, says it's no big deal. And the next time something like this becomes an issue, the mackem example will be there to say it's all right. And it's not.

I suppose we'll see, their PR seems horrific though so I wouldn't be surprised if they fuck the whole thing up 

 

Probably invade Shetland Islands or something.

[OzzieMandias]

it's disturbing the way people will throw away everything they believe in, in order to protect something else, like the parent who denies their child can do any wrong despite what they witness.

 

we've seen it before to a lesser degree, liverpool fans defence of suarez and to an even lesser degree the defence on here of andy carroll (ie doesn't matter what he does providing he's playing well for us) but this seems to be on a differing scale and I'm not 100% sure many of our fans wouldn't have reacted in a similar manner.

 

disappointed but not at all surprised that a good few view things that way but a bit taken aback at how many. roles reveresed I wouldn't be going.

 

I think it's quite clear from this thread that among our own ranks we've got a fair few nuggets who would have defended this appointment, had it been us who'd made it.

There is a difference though in people defending the appointment and people defending the man and what he stands for. A lot of mackems seem to be defending the latter which is just fucking weird.

 

Ultimately if he does well at the club and keeps his personal views private this will all be forgotten about by next season imo. He's just a daft bloke with silly opinions, not a tyrant.

 

I dunno. Seems to me that what the appointment, and SAFC's defence of it, will do is say, "It's fine to appoint someone who calls himself a fascist and does Nazi salutes in public." It validates the idea of fascism, says it's no big deal. And the next time something like this becomes an issue, the mackem example will be there to say it's all right. And it's not.

I suppose we'll see, their PR seems horrific though so I wouldn't be surprised if they fuck the whole thing up 

 

Probably invade Shetland Islands or something.

 

They obviously hadn't thought through the PR approach beforehand. Their handling of it has been appalling, by any measure.

[huss9]

From what I've read about his approach to football he prefers to play a traditional 442 and is big on discipline above all else. Doesn't sound like a modern day football manager capable of managing a top flight side at all. I can't wait to see how his millionaire prima donnas will react to his management style, and in turn how their board and owner will react once they realise a number of their high earners are completely overlooked while they run down their contract/sold for a huge loss. I would love to know what Short's thinking was behind this appointment.

 

short's got as much clue as Ashley/llambias

[Hanshithispantz]

I still cannot believe they let the bloke release a statement admitting he's a fascist

[Benwell Lad]

I still cannot believe they let the bloke release a statement admitting he's a fascist

 

Didn't their CEO issue a statement to the effect that he has not said he's a fascist, and to infer he did is a slur on him and the club?

I think they're just making it up as they go along now.

[Dokko]

One thing I've noticed about him straight away is that he loves to talk and give his opinion, he literally couldn't let any of the press have a word without a reply. He won't always have support on the sidelines trying to keep him and the press in check and is only a matter of time before he comes up with something unsuitable. The press must be loving this, they'll have bets on with each other, who'll be the first to make him snap. He's easily distracted as well, you could lead him down the garden path right in to the shitter.

[Dokko]

From what I've read about his approach to football he prefers to play a traditional 442 and is big on discipline above all else. Doesn't sound like a modern day football manager capable of managing a top flight side at all. I can't wait to see how his millionaire prima donnas will react to his management style, and in turn how their board and owner will react once they realise a number of their high earners are completely overlooked while they run down their contract/sold for a huge loss. I would love to know what Short's thinking was behind this appointment.

 

short's got as much clue as Ashley/llambias

 

Our lot are streets ahead of Short.

[Benwell Lad]

it's disturbing the way people will throw away everything they believe in, in order to protect something else, like the parent who denies their child can do any wrong despite what they witness.

 

we've seen it before to a lesser degree, liverpool fans defence of suarez and to an even lesser degree the defence on here of andy carroll (ie doesn't matter what he does providing he's playing well for us) but this seems to be on a differing scale and I'm not 100% sure many of our fans wouldn't have reacted in a similar manner.

 

disappointed but not at all surprised that a good few view things that way but a bit taken aback at how many. roles reveresed I wouldn't be going.

 

I think it's quite clear from this thread that among our own ranks we've got a fair few nuggets who would have defended this appointment, had it been us who'd made it.

There is a difference though in people defending the appointment and people defending the man and what he stands for. A lot of mackems seem to be defending the latter which is just fucking weird.

 

Ultimately if he does well at the club and keeps his personal views private this will all be forgotten about by next season imo. He's just a daft bloke with silly opinions, not a tyrant.

 

I dunno. Seems to me that what the appointment, and SAFC's defence of it, will do is say, "It's fine to appoint someone who calls himself a fascist and does Nazi salutes in public." It validates the idea of fascism, says it's no big deal. And the next time something like this becomes an issue, the mackem example will be there to say it's all right. And it's not.

I suppose we'll see, their PR seems horrific though so I wouldn't be surprised if they fuck the whole thing up 

 

Probably invade Shetland Islands or something.

 

They obviously hadn't thought through the PR approach beforehand. Their handling of it has been appalling, by any measure.

 

I'd love to know how their decision was arrived at and who was involved.  Quite staggering really.

[Hanshithispantz]

I still cannot believe they let the bloke release a statement admitting he's a fascist

 

Didn't their CEO issue a statement to the effect that he has not said he's a fascist, and to infer he did is a slur on him and the club?

I think they're just making it up as they go along now.

Aye, I think it was released alongside a statement from him effectively saying "I'm a fascist because my parents brought me up to be."

 

Not sure why they didn't just ignore it until it blew over, or stated that his opinions were misguided and/or blown out of proportion.

[madras]

One thing I've noticed about him straight away is that he loves to talk and give his opinion, he literally couldn't let any of the press have a word without a reply. He won't always have support on the sidelines trying to keep him and the press in check and is only a matter of time before he comes up with something unsuitable. The press must be loving this, they'll have bets on with each other, who'll be the first to make him snap. He's easily distracted as well, you could lead him down the garden path right in to the shitter.

possibly that, possibly, like many who hold distasteful views, they've learned the best way to avoid challenges and questioning is to not let others speak.

 

it could all have been cleared up today if he'd just said "no, I'm not a fascist" and came up with some excuse as to why he'd said it in the past, but he couldn't and that spoke volumes.

[TK-421]

I noticed he's already appointed the people who do all the actual coaching. Quick.

 

In todays press conference he has said he watched their matches against Norwich and Man Utd.

 

I'd guess this appointment was on the cards for longer than saturday night.

 

In fact, total sport suggested last night that O'Neills backroom staff had been told to clear out their stuff at the academy on Friday, and that he himself took satrudays match knowing he was already being binned.

[Dokko]

I noticed he's already appointed the people who do all the actual coaching. Quick.

 

In todays press conference he has said he watched their matches against Norwich and Man Utd.

 

I'd guess this appointment was on the cards for longer than saturday night.

 

In fact, total sport suggested last night that O'Neills backroom staff had been told to clear out their stuff at the academy on Friday, and that he himself took satrudays match knowing he was already being binned.

 

Good, means he and his back room staff will have received a nice payoff, that'll be a 3rd of their new tv money spent already on getting rid of him.

[Guest Bert Shaft]

F*ck this Paolo Mussolini malarky.

The question is should Sunderland FC  be kicked out of the league for having had  a flag on display that promoted extremist communism   

 

http://blogs.independent.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/down_with_this_sort_of_thing.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[OzzieMandias]

Di Canio at Swindon:

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2013/apr/02/paolo-di-canio-sunderland-manager-appointment

[Dokko]

Di Canio at Swindon:

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2013/apr/02/paolo-di-canio-sunderland-manager-appointment

 

Excellent stuff, fascism aside, this appointment is a huge gamble.

[Dr Venkman]

I understand some people will be making a big deal out of Di Canio's appointment because they want their 5 minutes in the media, but for others of us this is actually a big deal.

 

Say what you want, but the last thing I want is something to 'cry about' - nor am I a raging lefty.

 

I am going to terminate my season ticket until he leaves, and will return once he leaves I will give the club my money.

 

I understand why for many of you it doesn't matter what his ideology is; and that to you you see football and politics as separate etc. but I just can't.

 

I absolutely believe he has the right to whatever political opinion he wants - but having some political opinions make you unfit for certain jobs.

 

Do you agree with the fact it would be inappropriate for someone who believes in abolishing the age of consent to teach kids?

 

Do you agree with the fact it's right that BNP members can't serve in the police force, as being a national socialist may prevent you from doing your job properly?

 

Personally I believe it's also completely inappropriate that a club which takes a strong anti-racism platform and should be open to all in the community to appoint a fascist as our manager.

 

However it's not even just that he's a fascist - he's chosen to introduce it into his football. He chose to perform nazi salutes - twice - once against Lazio's fiercest rivals with traditionally Jewish support and once against a club with left wing support. That salute was used by those who killed Jews and who killed leftists.

 

Regarding fascism - I think some of you need to research on what it means. The fascism he is talking about re. Mussolini is not somehow a 'light' fascism that's actually about just being nationalistic. It's about the government controlling every aspect of citizens lives - the term totalitarian was invented under fascist Italy. Mussolini himself said their was no such thing as a private sphere. Fundamental to this belief was that certain races, or groups, are better than others. Mussolini killed 10's of thousands in Africa in brutal & oppressive wars that were purely for the conquest of land and Mussolini personally oversaw the movement of thousands of Jews from Italy to Hitler so they could be executed in concentration camps. He took over the country by force and oppressed political dissent.

 

There are many children alive today who have no idea who their parents/ grandparents are and it's because of Mussolini.

 

You can't be an Italian fascist and not be racist in one form or another. You can't have researched Mussolini, chosen to have a tattoo of him on you and not sympathise with some of the genocide he committed- it's simply too much of a defining feature of what he was.

 

Regarding the 'worked with black players' 'they're my friends' all I would say is that many, many racist people associate with people of other races (it baffles me too; but it's true). Simply saying 'I have black mates' doesn't really do it. I would also observe at Swindon he was investigated for racism and while the FA did nothing Swindon felt it necessary to apologise to the player involved.

 

 

Overall I completely respect those fans who choose to keep going but for me unfortunately it's a very sore point and the reason I'm posting this is because I want to make clear many of us who are upset about this aren't going on the TV or papers and aren't making a fuss for the hell of it we are genuinely very upset about this and feel like there has been a betrayal of some higher principle which is more important than success on the field.

 

Read more: http://www.readytogo.net/smb/showthread.php?t=771017&page=22#ixzz2PFPuWxqc

 

Decency still exists on the SMB.

That's a cracking post, has to be the best post ever made on there.

 

Don't agree. People seriously needs to separate football from politics.

 

What is a football club?

 

What is politics?

 

I've explained the reasoning behind this. A football club is driven like it's a company and not a political party. No one cares, if you are black, white, olive, pale, socialist, conservative, communist when it comes down to football. It's not the 50's or 60's anymore. I'm aware that there is politics in terms of company politics or what you want to call it, but that isn't the same typ of politics being discussed here.

 

What is being discussed here is that a man who has a political view that hasn't interefered with his job is being considered as a disgrace to football. I think it's rather more a disgrace that they have signed a league one manager who clearly has had tons of problems at past clubs. But has he let his fascist view get in the way of his job as a football manager? I can't find any evidence of that.

 

I'm not defending Di Canio, he should know more as an human being. But claiming he's a disgrace while we as a club have signed some thugs in the past and gotten away with it. Come sunday and they beat Chelsea no one is going to care if he's a fascist or not. Football is as fickle of a game as politics and it's pathetic at times.

 

 

 

That's a massive assumption. Core beliefs influence everything we do and say, all the time, whether we're at work or not.

[Darth Crooks]

From Wkipedia

 

'In late April 1945, with total defeat looming, Mussolini attempted to escape north...'

 

Hmmm....

[Sifu]

Widespread condemnation about this from everyone at work today.

 

One lad pointed out that a Di Canio managed Swindon lost 4-0 to a Westley managed Preston earlier in the season. Ha (I do note that we lost to a Westley managed Stevenage btw).

[Benwell Lad]

Di Canio at Swindon:

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2013/apr/02/paolo-di-canio-sunderland-manager-appointment

 

Excellent stuff, fascism aside, this appointment is a huge gamble.

 

WOW!

[Flip]

I understand some people will be making a big deal out of Di Canio's appointment because they want their 5 minutes in the media, but for others of us this is actually a big deal.

 

Say what you want, but the last thing I want is something to 'cry about' - nor am I a raging lefty.

 

I am going to terminate my season ticket until he leaves, and will return once he leaves I will give the club my money.

 

I understand why for many of you it doesn't matter what his ideology is; and that to you you see football and politics as separate etc. but I just can't.

 

I absolutely believe he has the right to whatever political opinion he wants - but having some political opinions make you unfit for certain jobs.

 

Do you agree with the fact it would be inappropriate for someone who believes in abolishing the age of consent to teach kids?

 

Do you agree with the fact it's right that BNP members can't serve in the police force, as being a national socialist may prevent you from doing your job properly?

 

Personally I believe it's also completely inappropriate that a club which takes a strong anti-racism platform and should be open to all in the community to appoint a fascist as our manager.

 

However it's not even just that he's a fascist - he's chosen to introduce it into his football. He chose to perform nazi salutes - twice - once against Lazio's fiercest rivals with traditionally Jewish support and once against a club with left wing support. That salute was used by those who killed Jews and who killed leftists.

 

Regarding fascism - I think some of you need to research on what it means. The fascism he is talking about re. Mussolini is not somehow a 'light' fascism that's actually about just being nationalistic. It's about the government controlling every aspect of citizens lives - the term totalitarian was invented under fascist Italy. Mussolini himself said their was no such thing as a private sphere. Fundamental to this belief was that certain races, or groups, are better than others. Mussolini killed 10's of thousands in Africa in brutal & oppressive wars that were purely for the conquest of land and Mussolini personally oversaw the movement of thousands of Jews from Italy to Hitler so they could be executed in concentration camps. He took over the country by force and oppressed political dissent.

 

There are many children alive today who have no idea who their parents/ grandparents are and it's because of Mussolini.

 

You can't be an Italian fascist and not be racist in one form or another. You can't have researched Mussolini, chosen to have a tattoo of him on you and not sympathise with some of the genocide he committed- it's simply too much of a defining feature of what he was.

 

Regarding the 'worked with black players' 'they're my friends' all I would say is that many, many racist people associate with people of other races (it baffles me too; but it's true). Simply saying 'I have black mates' doesn't really do it. I would also observe at Swindon he was investigated for racism and while the FA did nothing Swindon felt it necessary to apologise to the player involved.

 

 

Overall I completely respect those fans who choose to keep going but for me unfortunately it's a very sore point and the reason I'm posting this is because I want to make clear many of us who are upset about this aren't going on the TV or papers and aren't making a fuss for the hell of it we are genuinely very upset about this and feel like there has been a betrayal of some higher principle which is more important than success on the field.

 

Read more: http://www.readytogo.net/smb/showthread.php?t=771017&page=22#ixzz2PFPuWxqc

 

Decency still exists on the SMB.

That's a cracking post, has to be the best post ever made on there.

 

Don't agree. People seriously needs to separate football from politics.

 

What is a football club?

 

What is politics?

 

I've explained the reasoning behind this. A football club is driven like it's a company and not a political party. No one cares, if you are black, white, olive, pale, socialist, conservative, communist when it comes down to football. It's not the 50's or 60's anymore. I'm aware that there is politics in terms of company politics or what you want to call it, but that isn't the same typ of politics being discussed here.

 

What is being discussed here is that a man who has a political view that hasn't interefered with his job is being considered as a disgrace to football. I think it's rather more a disgrace that they have signed a league one manager who clearly has had tons of problems at past clubs. But has he let his fascist view get in the way of his job as a football manager? I can't find any evidence of that.

 

I'm not defending Di Canio, he should know more as an human being. But claiming he's a disgrace while we as a club have signed some thugs in the past and gotten away with it. Come sunday and they beat Chelsea no one is going to care if he's a fascist or not. Football is as fickle of a game as politics and it's pathetic at times.

 

 

 

That's a massive assumption. Core beliefs influence everything we do and say, all the time, whether we're at work or not.

 

No, a massive assumption is to suggest that his belief has any effect/impact on the world and the way we live. People need to try and get a larger perspective of things.

[TK-421]

Just remembered, there was a crackin little dig on North east Tonight, on their sports bulletin. They finished discussing Di Canio/SunderLOL, and then got on about Newcastle heading out 'to play at The Real Stadium of Light'.

 

I bet there were a few things thrown at stolen TV's in Pennywell this evening.

 

Bloody Magedia!

[leffe186]

Win-win for you guys I reckon. Even if he does get a new manager bounce and keep them up, it's surely only a matter of time before the shit hits the fan. It's going to be bloody entertaining for you guys either way (as long as you don't go down, natch).

[cp40]

got a little feeling this is going to get very messy

[Stifler]

It's amusing and ironic that during a press conference questions are not allowed to be asked (a typical fascist trait), it's a press conference lined up to reject claims he's a fascist and he basically confirms that he is a one. On top of that he appears to have lost the mental game with press as well when he first comes up against a difficult situation and a ball hasn't even been kicked yet.

 

It couldn't have went any worse. 

[madras]

I understand some people will be making a big deal out of Di Canio's appointment because they want their 5 minutes in the media, but for others of us this is actually a big deal.

 

Say what you want, but the last thing I want is something to 'cry about' - nor am I a raging lefty.

 

I am going to terminate my season ticket until he leaves, and will return once he leaves I will give the club my money.

 

I understand why for many of you it doesn't matter what his ideology is; and that to you you see football and politics as separate etc. but I just can't.

 

I absolutely believe he has the right to whatever political opinion he wants - but having some political opinions make you unfit for certain jobs.

 

Do you agree with the fact it would be inappropriate for someone who believes in abolishing the age of consent to teach kids?

 

Do you agree with the fact it's right that BNP members can't serve in the police force, as being a national socialist may prevent you from doing your job properly?

 

Personally I believe it's also completely inappropriate that a club which takes a strong anti-racism platform and should be open to all in the community to appoint a fascist as our manager.

 

However it's not even just that he's a fascist - he's chosen to introduce it into his football. He chose to perform nazi salutes - twice - once against Lazio's fiercest rivals with traditionally Jewish support and once against a club with left wing support. That salute was used by those who killed Jews and who killed leftists.

 

Regarding fascism - I think some of you need to research on what it means. The fascism he is talking about re. Mussolini is not somehow a 'light' fascism that's actually about just being nationalistic. It's about the government controlling every aspect of citizens lives - the term totalitarian was invented under fascist Italy. Mussolini himself said their was no such thing as a private sphere. Fundamental to this belief was that certain races, or groups, are better than others. Mussolini killed 10's of thousands in Africa in brutal & oppressive wars that were purely for the conquest of land and Mussolini personally oversaw the movement of thousands of Jews from Italy to Hitler so they could be executed in concentration camps. He took over the country by force and oppressed political dissent.

 

There are many children alive today who have no idea who their parents/ grandparents are and it's because of Mussolini.

 

You can't be an Italian fascist and not be racist in one form or another. You can't have researched Mussolini, chosen to have a tattoo of him on you and not sympathise with some of the genocide he committed- it's simply too much of a defining feature of what he was.

 

Regarding the 'worked with black players' 'they're my friends' all I would say is that many, many racist people associate with people of other races (it baffles me too; but it's true). Simply saying 'I have black mates' doesn't really do it. I would also observe at Swindon he was investigated for racism and while the FA did nothing Swindon felt it necessary to apologise to the player involved.

 

 

Overall I completely respect those fans who choose to keep going but for me unfortunately it's a very sore point and the reason I'm posting this is because I want to make clear many of us who are upset about this aren't going on the TV or papers and aren't making a fuss for the hell of it we are genuinely very upset about this and feel like there has been a betrayal of some higher principle which is more important than success on the field.

 

Read more: http://www.readytogo.net/smb/showthread.php?t=771017&page=22#ixzz2PFPuWxqc

 

Decency still exists on the SMB.

That's a cracking post, has to be the best post ever made on there.

 

Don't agree. People seriously needs to separate football from politics.

 

What is a football club?

 

What is politics?

 

I've explained the reasoning behind this. A football club is driven like it's a company and not a political party. No one cares, if you are black, white, olive, pale, socialist, conservative, communist when it comes down to football. It's not the 50's or 60's anymore. I'm aware that there is politics in terms of company politics or what you want to call it, but that isn't the same typ of politics being discussed here.

 

What is being discussed here is that a man who has a political view that hasn't interefered with his job is being considered as a disgrace to football. I think it's rather more a disgrace that they have signed a league one manager who clearly has had tons of problems at past clubs. But has he let his fascist view get in the way of his job as a football manager? I can't find any evidence of that.

 

I'm not defending Di Canio, he should know more as an human being. But claiming he's a disgrace while we as a club have signed some thugs in the past and gotten away with it. Come sunday and they beat Chelsea no one is going to care if he's a fascist or not. Football is as fickle of a game as politics and it's pathetic at times.

 

 

 

That's a massive assumption. Core beliefs influence everything we do and say, all the time, whether we're at work or not.

 

No, a massive assumption is to suggest that his belief has any effect/impact on the world and the way we live. People need to try and get a larger perspective of things.

we have seen people comparing fascism to new labour on RTG (and thats in all seriousness), defending his salute and making excuses for his beliefs, so yes, I'd say his beliefs have that sort of effect. I fear itr may be you that needs the larger perspective.