Alan Pardew

[Wullie]

Diame's just another Papa Bouba Diop, another one who always looked fantastic against us on account of being physical but actually couldn't pass a ball.

 

I cannot comprehend anyone saying Swansea passed us off the park last season. That game was an absolute masterclass in how to play against a side like that. Krul's never had an easier afternoon and once we scored the result was never in doubt no matter how many passes they made.

[madras]

It's not about the 433 itself as a formation. It's about what gives our best attacking player, Ben Arfa, the best chance to hurt teams. I didn't mind him at all playing behind Ba for example as he did away to Man Utd last season. In fact I quite enjoyed watching him play more central, and I thought with a good run of games there he'd really flourish.

 

As things stand, HBA is shackled, badly, in his current role, and I applaud him for continuing to track back and cover his defensive duties despite his frustrations. It's easy for a footballer like him these days to shrivel up and hoy the toys out. It's what is expected of him of course, being a professional and all.

 

Something isn't going right somewhere, and I'm not sure Pardew can put his finger on it. The much famed "Team spirit" seems to have dissipated a bit compared to what we've seen in the last couple of seasons, and I believe it may have something to do with the transfer sagas of the summer (Agents, heads turned etc..) coupled with second season syndrome, injuries, suspensions, etc..

 

I hope this is just a phase, an exception, rather than the rule.

yes and no, it isn't so much about the formation, the better teams have a nominal formation and the fluidity to make them hard to mark, movement to create and expolit space and are orgainised and disciplined when out of possession. also it's not about feeding ben arfa (if anything, ultimately it should be about feeding our forwards).

 

even though i've advocated 4-3-3 as the best wat to use our squad, i'd rather a fluid 4-4-2 than a rigid 4-3-3.

[madras]

Diame's just another Papa Bouba Diop, another one who always looked fantastic against us on account of being physical but actually couldn't pass a ball.

 

I cannot comprehend anyone saying Swansea passed us off the park last season. That game was an absolute masterclass in how to play against a side like that. Krul's never had an easier afternoon and once we scored the result was never in doubt no matter how many passes they made.

didn't see it that way at the time, i was desperate for us to get some possession. on watching the game back a day or so after i realised we'd played it perfectly.

[Dave]

Think that's a bit harsh on Diame. He passed it well on Sunday IMO.

[Neil]

Must say Diame looked a good player against you.

 

Can I assume that the 4-3-3 people are after involves Tiote, Anita and Cabaye as a midfield 3? Because that, to me, seems the entirely natural midfield 3 to have. Is the lack of the much fabled 4-3-3 because of question marks over Anita in midfield (if this is the case, do people think the Jonas injury will force Pardew in this direction?) or is it because he doesn't want to put Ba out wide in the front 3 because he's scoring goals this season centrally?

[Dr Venkman]

It's Ba, and the huff came before the goals.

[henke]

Must say Diame looked a good player against you.

 

Can I assume that the 4-3-3 people are after involves Tiote, Anita and Cabaye as a midfield 3? Because that, to me, seems the entirely natural midfield 3 to have. Is the lack of the much fabled 4-3-3 because of question marks over Anita in midfield (if this is the case, do people think the Jonas injury will force Pardew in this direction?) or is it because he doesn't want to put Ba out wide in the front 3 because he's scoring goals this season centrally?

 

Your assumptions are exactly what i'm after. I'd have Ba and Cisse fighting for the central slot, or let Ba start then move him onto the left when Cisse comes on.

[Chris_R]

Must say Diame looked a good player against you.

 

Can I assume that the 4-3-3 people are after involves Tiote, Anita and Cabaye as a midfield 3? Because that, to me, seems the entirely natural midfield 3 to have. Is the lack of the much fabled 4-3-3 because of question marks over Anita in midfield (if this is the case, do people think the Jonas injury will force Pardew in this direction?) or is it because he doesn't want to put Ba out wide in the front 3 because he's scoring goals this season centrally?

 

For me, the midfield is secondary provided we go with a front three of Ba (left side), Cisse (Central) and HBA (Right side).

 

It seems Ba isn't allowed to play anywhere other than in the middle though, and that's fucking us over. Ba's great in the middle, don't get me wrong, but Cisse can't play wide and we've nobody else who can play as an auxiliary striker alongside Ba and Ben Arfa. Also, When we do go 4-3-3 this season Pardew is doing the baffling thing of putting Hatem on the left which is just crazy, and Cisse on the right, meaning we're really playing 4-5-1 rather than 4-3-3 as like all players they want to play on their strongest foot and will tend to go wide.

 

That's exactly what we'd want in 4-4-2 (But don't get, as Pardew then plays Jonas left and HBA right...), but not if we're trying to go 4-3-3.

 

However to answer your actual question, I'd ideally want Tiote, Cabaye and Anita, yes. And as for the bolded bit of your post, I strongly suspect Ba is playing centrally simply because Pardew is shitting himself over the £7m release fee that's rumoured to still exist and Ba doesn't like playing out wide.

 

Shame its our only formation where we actually look dangerous.

[madras]

Must say Diame looked a good player against you.

 

Can I assume that the 4-3-3 people are after involves Tiote, Anita and Cabaye as a midfield 3? Because that, to me, seems the entirely natural midfield 3 to have. Is the lack of the much fabled 4-3-3 because of question marks over Anita in midfield (if this is the case, do people think the Jonas injury will force Pardew in this direction?) or is it because he doesn't want to put Ba out wide in the front 3 because he's scoring goals this season centrally?

 

Your assumptions are exactly what i'm after. I'd have Ba and Cisse fighting for the central slot, or let Ba start then move him onto the left when Cisse comes on.

do we have to have a central slot and one on the left ? have they not the intelligence to play off each and into space which may necessitate one of them to drift wider then the other ? could even end up for part of a game with both wide and bena arfa finding space in the middle as the fabled false no9.

[Parky]

It's not about the 433 itself as a formation. It's about what gives our best attacking player, Ben Arfa, the best chance to hurt teams. I didn't mind him at all playing behind Ba for example as he did away to Man Utd last season. In fact I quite enjoyed watching him play more central, and I thought with a good run of games there he'd really flourish.

 

As things stand, HBA is shackled, badly, in his current role, and I applaud him for continuing to track back and cover his defensive duties despite his frustrations. It's easy for a footballer like him these days to shrivel up and hoy the toys out. It's what is expected of him of course, being a professional and all.

 

Something isn't going right somewhere, and I'm not sure Pardew can put his finger on it. The much famed "Team spirit" seems to have dissipated a bit compared to what we've seen in the last couple of seasons, and I believe it may have something to do with the transfer sagas of the summer (Agents, heads turned etc..) coupled with second season syndrome, injuries, suspensions, etc..

 

I hope this is just a phase, an exception, rather than the rule.

 

In the uber competitive environment of the PL windows of oppurtunity come along rarely and everybody at the club is tuned into 'the vibe' of how a side is doing. The remarkable 5th place finish had a massive momentum to it and we failed to capitalise and build on that. This will be writ large on the minds of everyone at the club especially the best players. That's where the spirit has gone.

[madras]

It's not about the 433 itself as a formation. It's about what gives our best attacking player, Ben Arfa, the best chance to hurt teams. I didn't mind him at all playing behind Ba for example as he did away to Man Utd last season. In fact I quite enjoyed watching him play more central, and I thought with a good run of games there he'd really flourish.

 

As things stand, HBA is shackled, badly, in his current role, and I applaud him for continuing to track back and cover his defensive duties despite his frustrations. It's easy for a footballer like him these days to shrivel up and hoy the toys out. It's what is expected of him of course, being a professional and all.

 

Something isn't going right somewhere, and I'm not sure Pardew can put his finger on it. The much famed "Team spirit" seems to have dissipated a bit compared to what we've seen in the last couple of seasons, and I believe it may have something to do with the transfer sagas of the summer (Agents, heads turned etc..) coupled with second season syndrome, injuries, suspensions, etc..

 

I hope this is just a phase, an exception, rather than the rule.

 

In the uber competitive environment of the PL windows of oppurtunity come along rarely and everybody at the club is tuned into 'the vibe' of how a side is doing. The remarkable 5th place finish had a massive momentum to it and we failed to capitalise and build on that. This will be writ large on the minds of everyone at the club especially the best players. That's where the spirit has gone.

alternatively, we could have carried on the momentum by playing the way we did at our best last season, even if we couldn't carry it on at least try to copy what it was we were doing well, especially when it becomes obvious that the alternative doesn't work.

 

i'm sure the players know the way the clubs transfer policy works and we will bring in what we can.

 

the most annoying thing for me is that the biggest signing we made seemed perfect to fit in to what we were doing well only for us to go against it all.

[Mole_Toonfan]

Just like Ba and Cisse i have concerns with Tiote and Anita as a partnership they are both DM's and have the fear of them stepping on each other's toes.

 

Honestly Tiote-Anita-Cabaye is the best partnership we have right for a midfield 3 but honestly long term i don't see it being a fruitful partnership.

 

Jonas was ideal but his form and gone downhill pretty quickly, Ba was ideal for the left of the attack but he seems to only want to play central now and Debuchy seemingly was coming in at RB to add extra width.

 

All 3 major pieces for 4-3-3 to work and 3 seem to have faltered for one reason or another.

 

[madras]

Just like Ba and Cisse i have concerns with Tiote and Anita as a partnership they are both DM's and have the fear of them stepping on each other's toes.

 

Honestly Tiote-Anita-Cabaye is the best partnership we have right for a midfield 3 but honestly long term i don't see it being a fruitful partnership.

 

Jonas was ideal but his form and gone downhill pretty quickly, Ba was ideal for the left of the attack but he seems to only want to play central now and Debuchy seemingly was coming in at RB to add extra width.

 

All 3 major pieces for 4-3-3 to work and 3 seem to have faltered for one reason or another.

 

anita has shown at right back thats he's more than just a DM and i'm hoping as he settles in we see the range of passing and showing for the ball that he reputedly did in holland.

[Parky]

It's Ba, and the huff came before the goals.

[Parky]

It's not about the 433 itself as a formation. It's about what gives our best attacking player, Ben Arfa, the best chance to hurt teams. I didn't mind him at all playing behind Ba for example as he did away to Man Utd last season. In fact I quite enjoyed watching him play more central, and I thought with a good run of games there he'd really flourish.

 

As things stand, HBA is shackled, badly, in his current role, and I applaud him for continuing to track back and cover his defensive duties despite his frustrations. It's easy for a footballer like him these days to shrivel up and hoy the toys out. It's what is expected of him of course, being a professional and all.

 

Something isn't going right somewhere, and I'm not sure Pardew can put his finger on it. The much famed "Team spirit" seems to have dissipated a bit compared to what we've seen in the last couple of seasons, and I believe it may have something to do with the transfer sagas of the summer (Agents, heads turned etc..) coupled with second season syndrome, injuries, suspensions, etc..

 

I hope this is just a phase, an exception, rather than the rule.

 

In the uber competitive environment of the PL windows of oppurtunity come along rarely and everybody at the club is tuned into 'the vibe' of how a side is doing. The remarkable 5th place finish had a massive momentum to it and we failed to capitalise and build on that. This will be writ large on the minds of everyone at the club especially the best players. That's where the spirit has gone.

alternatively, we could have carried on the momentum by playing the way we did at our best last season, even if we couldn't carry it on at least try to copy what it was we were doing well, especially when it becomes obvious that the alternative doesn't work.

 

i'm sure the players know the way the clubs transfer policy works and we will bring in what we can.

 

the most annoying thing for me is that the biggest signing we made seemed perfect to fit in to what we were doing well only for us to go against it all.

 

Pardew seems to prefer one particular way that much is clear. He's been as you say counter intuitive all this season. I can only think he's too worried about making Ba unhappy again or futher his exteneded family, agent, friends, hangers on and half of the African continent. He's trying to hard to please everyone (the sign of a weak manager) AND within that prison win games.

I certainly don't envy him.

[Mole_Toonfan]

Just like Ba and Cisse i have concerns with Tiote and Anita as a partnership they are both DM's and have the fear of them stepping on each other's toes.

 

Honestly Tiote-Anita-Cabaye is the best partnership we have right for a midfield 3 but honestly long term i don't see it being a fruitful partnership.

 

Jonas was ideal but his form and gone downhill pretty quickly, Ba was ideal for the left of the attack but he seems to only want to play central now and Debuchy seemingly was coming in at RB to add extra width.

 

All 3 major pieces for 4-3-3 to work and 3 seem to have faltered for one reason or another.

 

anita has shown at right back thats he's more than just a DM and i'm hoping as he settles in we see the range of passing and showing for the ball that he reputedly did in holland.

 

Yeah i know but the thing is Anita was at his best for Ajax getting the ball off the CB's and starting plays also in some occasions going into the back 4 when Vertonghen made runs forward.

 

Which would obviously mean Tiote would have to be a bit further forward which he really wouldn't be effective in.

 

What i'm really getting at is that i feel Anita or Tiote alongside a box to box midfielder or deep playmaker would be a much better fit instead of Anita and Tiote.

 

Just have the feeling that long term that their compatibility isn't exactly high just like Ba and Cisse's isn't but for different reasons.

 

Obviously it's the best we can do at the moment though.

[Tiresias]

I don't understand what our players are supposed to be doing on the pitch, they remind me of England at times, little commitment, little responsibility taken and most of all absolutely no inventiveness or movement with a few notable exceptions. We didn't always play technically brilliant footy last season, but we were always hungry and had absolutely the right attitude. No idea what's happened to that.

[Parky]

This is where the tagetting players primarily for thier value rather than what we need them for falls down. Cabaye is the closest thing we have to an allround midfielder and to replace him with similar would I imagine cost a packet. If we carry on like this and he's shackled to the firefighting role I have a feeling he'll be off. There is so much more to his game.

[cubaricho]

The only player who really moves about the pitch in any sort of concerted manner is Anita, but I'm sure we'll coach that out of him in due time.

[Parky]

[madras]

This is where the tagetting players primarily for thier value rather than what we need them for falls down. Cabaye is the closest thing we have to an allround midfielder and to replace him with similar would I imagine cost a packet. If we carry on like this and he's shackled to the firefighting role I have a feeling he'll be off. There is so much more to his game.

i'm not sure we do in the way you are insinuating but like all clubs (bar the chosen few) we have to look to value.

[littlelunchbox]

Just like Ba and Cisse i have concerns with Tiote and Anita as a partnership they are both DM's and have the fear of them stepping on each other's toes.

 

Honestly Tiote-Anita-Cabaye is the best partnership we have right for a midfield 3 but honestly long term i don't see it being a fruitful partnership.

 

Jonas was ideal but his form and gone downhill pretty quickly, Ba was ideal for the left of the attack but he seems to only want to play central now and Debuchy seemingly was coming in at RB to add extra width.

 

All 3 major pieces for 4-3-3 to work and 3 seem to have faltered for one reason or another.

 

anita has shown at right back thats he's more than just a DM and i'm hoping as he settles in we see the range of passing and showing for the ball that he reputedly did in holland.

 

Yeah i know but the thing is Anita was at his best for Ajax getting the ball off the CB's and starting plays also in some occasions going into the back 4 when Vertonghen made runs forward.

 

Which would obviously mean Tiote would have to be a bit further forward which he really wouldn't be effective in.

 

What i'm really getting at is that i feel Anita or Tiote alongside a box to box midfielder or deep playmaker would be a much better fit instead of Anita and Tiote.

 

Just have the feeling that long term that their compatibility isn't exactly high just like Ba and Cisse's isn't but for different reasons.

 

Obviously it's the best we can do at the moment though.

 

box to box midfielders are extinct , this is not the 90's when every team played 4-4-2.  now its just hard to find a box to box man to fit into pardew's archaic back-to-the-future -4-4-2

 

i look man utd, chelsea, Ciddy, who are their box to box man?

[Mick]

I really want Pardew to turn things around for us because I would hate us to go through another transitional period with a new manager.  He needs to stop pissing about with his team selection midweek to weekend and he needs to let the players have a bit more freedom to go forward and express themselves.  Watching us playing football is like watching somebody trying to use his arms while wearing a straightjacket and it’s as frustrating as hell.  I was actually kicking bottles around on Sunday while waiting for the crowds to leave the ground. 

 

We need to pick our best players on Saturday and tell them to go and piss all over Swansea, which is easier said than done. 

 

Ben Arfa has 3 players around him when he has the ball, where the hell are our spare players when this happens?  Ben Arfa has been surrounded by players since his debut and we haven't tried to take advantage of it.  You never see anybody running into or creating space.  I'm sick of seeing us with the ball and having no outlet, creating space is a basic part of football and we don't do it while every team we play against seem able to find plenty.

 

I think we've always played better when we close the opposition down, we don't even do that now, we wait for them to get to us and they have as long as they want on the ball.  Again, that's basic stuff and we don't seem able to grasp things which you learn at an early age.

 

Pardew has made plenty of noise about the type of game he wants us to play, where is it?  And, what is it?  He seriously can't want us to play the way that we are and if he does then I can't see what he's trying to do with it. 

 

Our players aren't shit but you wouldn't know that if you watched the way we are playing, they look clueless and I don't think that they are.  I think we have a very good core of players with our strongest 11 and we're not performing anywhere close to the level that we should be playing at. 

 

[Mole_Toonfan]

They are not instinct man

 

Diame is someone i would describe as box to box, we was linked with someone i would describe as box to box in Moussa Sissoko.

 

Also Ramires is Chelsea's box to box, Yaya is a fine example of a box to box midfielder.

 

Ok Man Utd don't have one but their needs and the way they are set up is different.

 

All i was saying is someone like Sissoko with Anita or Tiote would be better than Anita and Tiote IMO and the partnership would fit better.

 

Personally we need someone like that in our midfield 3 to link the attacks between the DM who ever it maybe and Cabaye or a deep playmaker type i'm not at confident in Anita-Tiote-Cabaye working well in the long term.

 

I think you have to have that link man between Cabaye and the DM whether he links by lung bursting runs through the heart of midfield like Yaya does or deep playmaking who links by passing through the midfield i think we are missing someone like that.

 

If Tiote or Anita can do one of those roles than fairplay but i'm not sure it work so well as a 3 if i'm honest in the long term. Which is why i keep saying that i feel Anita was bought to replace Tiote rather than play alongside him.

[Parky]

All along the 442 was for one reason, it started with protecting the fullbacks and to have a rigid structure when we don't have the ball. It comes from analysing too much prozone and how teams concede form breakaways (when players are out of positon or up the pitch).