Benwell Lad Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 When we lose it is because of Pardew and when we win it is despite him. For some people at least, and those people who still have time for Pardew are wasting their time explaining why. I know this feeling well from explaining why I still had some support for Mike Ashley. Fully agree with this. This is so deep-rooted i'm probably going to leave this thread alone. Me too. You won't miss much. Come back for a quick look in a month or so, or if you prefer take a look at about a month ago, it'll be no different. You could also set up a "change of ownership" alert, if that goes off then his situation may change. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benwell Lad Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 i'm looking now at pardew having his version of moyes's near relegation season (and i remember many a phone in with scousers wanting him "sackhhhhed"). next season there are few excuses given the squad we now have (and hopefully have come september). With our present squad and a couple of sensible additions we should have a very good next season. So credit to Pardew & Co. They've built the squad and have great belief in it, which seems to be reciprocated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ObiChrisKenobi Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 Which managers out there (and would want to manage Newcastle) are you suggesting could do more with this team? I have no idea which managers would want to manage Newcastle or not so anyone I suggest would be pointless I think most managers with a track record of playing expressive attacking football would be a better choice though, preferably from the continent. Pardew simply isn't amongst the top bracket of managers imo. Really I only put that down to try and stop people being lazy and just naming the best managers currently in the game, who I can't imagine would jump at the chance to manage us. Are people wanting someone like Sousa or Martinez? I probably wouldn't want either. I don't think Martinez would be a bad choice tbh, although it really wouldn't be worth the gamble It just seems the arguments for keeping Pardew seem to be "because he doesn't deserve to be fired" (he fucking did about 6 weeks ago) and "who else will come here?" I sort of agree with the first bit now, he's starting to drag himself out of a massive fucking hole so it would be harsh to sack him, I do think that if Mike was a bit more adventurous we could find a better manager from abroad though. I'm not going to suggest who that manager would be as I honestly haven't got a fucking clue Personally, I'm unsure either way. Happy to 'stick with him' so to speak, as I'm not sure who there actually is to come in and replace him. Granted there are things that need to be improved, and hopefully he's aware of that (Corners...). Also, given Ashley's track record of appointments, I'd expect it to be some 'no name' from the Championship, Eddie Howe or someone. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shays Given Tim Flowers Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 Which managers out there (and would want to manage Newcastle) are you suggesting could do more with this team? I have no idea which managers would want to manage Newcastle or not so anyone I suggest would be pointless I think most managers with a track record of playing expressive attacking football would be a better choice though, preferably from the continent. Pardew simply isn't amongst the top bracket of managers imo. Really I only put that down to try and stop people being lazy and just naming the best managers currently in the game, who I can't imagine would jump at the chance to manage us. Are people wanting someone like Sousa or Martinez? Relegation survival expert, Roberto Martinez? Of course, of course. Look at the calibre of player Wigan have had during his tenure as manager. The fact they have retained Premier League status for the 3 seasons he has been manager is borderline miraculous. That's before you factor in a lack of any decent investment or decent home support. His Swansea League One side were one of the best teams I can remember seeing (aesthetically). I'm not saying I want him here, but the idea that some people do isn't at all ridiculous. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest icemanblue Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 Which managers out there (and would want to manage Newcastle) are you suggesting could do more with this team? I have no idea which managers would want to manage Newcastle or not so anyone I suggest would be pointless I think most managers with a track record of playing expressive attacking football would be a better choice though, preferably from the continent. Pardew simply isn't amongst the top bracket of managers imo. Really I only put that down to try and stop people being lazy and just naming the best managers currently in the game, who I can't imagine would jump at the chance to manage us. Are people wanting someone like Sousa or Martinez? Relegation survival expert, Roberto Martinez? Of course, of course. Look at the calibre of player Wigan have had during his tenure as manager. The fact they have retained Premier League status for the 3 seasons he has been manager is borderline miraculous. That's before you factor in a lack of any decent investment or decent home support. His Swansea League One side were one of the best teams I can remember seeing (aesthetically). I'm not saying I want him here, but the idea that some people do isn't at all ridiculous. A GOOD manager would have those same players in Europe IMHO. (That's how this works, isn't it?) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shays Given Tim Flowers Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 You've lost me? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnonel Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 I'm not disagreeing with what you're saying exactly. I just think that it's not so open and closed as that. There are skills that a manager can use to help prepare a substitute to go on and do the 'right' job. Part of that is known the strengths and weaknesses of who you're bringing on. Knowing how THAT game is being played. Where the key points are, where the weak points are of the opposition. Knowing WHY you want to make a sub (rather then just rolling the dice and hoping). The way you've suggested it works sounds like no manager ever would have any influence over how a substitute would perform. Agree a manager has influence, but the way some go on, on this forum, is that he should be consistently waving his magic wand and making things happen. We should have beaten Swansea. Gouf and others could/should have scored (individual errors). The goal we conceded was a shambles (individual errors). What I would be interested in is us as a community scoring the various aspects of being a manager, eg: Relationship with Media Relationship with Fans Relationship with Chairman/Owner Relationship with Board Relationship with Scout Man Management Ability to execute within a strict framework/budget Pre-Game Strategy etc Training/Coaching etc Not an exhaustive list, but you get the point. I think he scores very VERY well in some areas, and probably not so well in others. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ObiChrisKenobi Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 You've lost me? Inochi Banter is Best Banter. You'll learn to admire it's subtle punch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shays Given Tim Flowers Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 You've lost me? Inochi Banter is Best Banter. You'll learn to admire it's subtle punch. I think I got the theme of his post (kind of agree too) just didn't really see its relevance to what I said. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 I'm not sure I buy the fact that Wigan staying up is such an amazing achievement. Not to mention the fact that they often only just survive on the last day. Do they really have players that are so much worse than the rest of the bottom half teams? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 I'm not disagreeing with what you're saying exactly. I just think that it's not so open and closed as that. There are skills that a manager can use to help prepare a substitute to go on and do the 'right' job. Part of that is known the strengths and weaknesses of who you're bringing on. Knowing how THAT game is being played. Where the key points are, where the weak points are of the opposition. Knowing WHY you want to make a sub (rather then just rolling the dice and hoping). The way you've suggested it works sounds like no manager ever would have any influence over how a substitute would perform. Agree a manager has influence, but the way some go on, on this forum, is that he should be consistently waving his magic wand and making things happen. We should have beaten Swansea. Gouf and others could/should have scored (individual errors). The goal we conceded was a shambles (individual errors). What I would be interested in is us as a community scoring the various aspects of being a manager, eg: Relationship with Media Relationship with Fans Relationship with Chairman/Owner Relationship with Board Relationship with Scout Man Management Ability to execute within a strict framework/budget Pre-Game Strategy etc Training/Coaching etc Not an exhaustive list, but you get the point. I think he scores very VERY well in some areas, and probably not so well in others. http://i1269.photobucket.com/albums/jj594/stuartwcullington/AlanPardewOverview_Profile.png Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest icemanblue Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 You've lost me? Not really directed at you, mate. More of a comment on those stating what we SHOULD be capable of with this squad. It's all opinions anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest icemanblue Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 I'm not sure I buy the fact that Wigan staying up is such an amazing achievement. Not to mention the fact that they often only just survive on the last day. Do they really have players that are so much worse than the rest of the bottom half teams? It's not and they don't. They're often up against the worst of the promoted fodder as well. Lovely football, though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deuce Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 Scouting knowledge in Nigeria Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shays Given Tim Flowers Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 You've lost me? Not really directed at you, mate. More of a comment on those stating what we SHOULD be capable of with this squad. It's all opinions anyway. Didn't think it was I get what you're saying too. Re: Martinez, I think it is a big achievement to keep them up and I really don't think many managers could. That being said its all conjecture and its all if's and maybes. . I have asked the question in this thread whether people think Management is a Science or an Art. I certainly think there is a lot of luck involved at times. Its also very difficult to compare like for like. Probably the only real yardstick is consistency. Whilst you can perhaps infer things from Pardew's past managerial experience he hasn't really been here long enough to say whether or not he is consistently good or consistently bad. It gets difficult to assess him objectively anyway as there will always be a combination of bias, the irrationality of emotion and forum rhetoric. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest icemanblue Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 You've lost me? Not really directed at you, mate. More of a comment on those stating what we SHOULD be capable of with this squad. It's all opinions anyway. Didn't think it was I get what you're saying too. Re: Martinez, I think it is a big achievement to keep them up and I really don't think many managers could. That being said its all conjecture and its all if's and maybes. . I have asked the question in this thread whether people think Management is a Science or an Art. I certainly think there is a lot of luck involved at times. Its also very difficult to compare like for like. Probably the only real yardstick is consistency. Whilst you can perhaps infer things from Pardew's past managerial experience he hasn't really been here long enough to say whether or not he is consistently good or consistently bad. It gets difficult to assess him objectively anyway as there will always be a combination of bias, the irrationality of emotion and forum rhetoric. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deuce Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 I'm not sure I buy the fact that Wigan staying up is such an amazing achievement. Not to mention the fact that they often only just survive on the last day. Do they really have players that are so much worse than the rest of the bottom half teams? They do have rather quality players, in spite of the lack of investment. I think that's testament to Martinez's scouting. Gomez, Kone, Di Santo, Espinoza, Ramis are all pretty shrewd acquisitions, players that could cut-it at other PL teams. Holding everything else constant though, I think Wigan immediately drops after Martinez leaves. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Flash Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 Pardew smells. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxfree Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 Pardew Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Flash Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 Another absolutely must win for him on Sunday. There's zero excuses for us not playing well and winning in this game. 0-1. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spudil Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 Does anyone think Pardew would keep Wigan up like? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hughesy Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 Didn't Bruce keep them up or am I mistaken? Just checked - he got them to 11th. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dontooner Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 Does anyone think Pardew would keep Wigan up like? HahaHa wonder why i burst out laughing after i read your question. Seriously "No" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spudil Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 Aye he did a good job. Now, does anyone think Pardew would keep Wigan up? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 Bruce signed better players than Martinez on the whole. N'Zogbia, Palacios, Valencia etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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