Alan Pardew

[Dr Venkman]

It's an interesting point Stu. I don't have an awful deal of faith in him and it's eroding a little bit more all the time, I'd most certainly take another season of rubbish performances (without relegation) if we could win something though, we need to break that duck asap. Not that I think we'll win the EL though to be honest, I just don't think we're good enough to win something at the minute.

 

Tron's point about Jonas and Tiote is a good one I think, aye it was a good move to bring Marv on, and in isolation that's 3 points won, brilliant. The problem for me is that I don't see it changing anything going forwards because it never does, and for every one of those results there's at least two where Marv/Anita don't start and we don't come back to win the game due to our overly defensive manager.

[quayside]

Tron just said it, at home against Stoke he chose to start Jonas and Tiote and not play Marv or Anita. Credit him all you like but if he didn't make these bullshit fear-based calls in the first place we might not be in holes that we have to dig ourselves out of.

 

Results make people forget, not me. We were seconds away from 31 points with 9 games to play. Looks a lot healthier this morning but bearing in mind the opposition and importance of the game yesterday I found his approach baffling. Took them to score before we remotely livened up, albeit they were s***. But we were at home and needed the points more than them.

 

But for all this supposed negativity we dominated the game. Check out the stats on possession, shots, corners etc. That doesn't show a side sitting back, it shows a side taking the game on. My take was not that we were negative but that we could not convert our pressure into goals against a side who don't aim to do much other than sit back and adopt "spoiling" tactics. Possibly Marveaux for Jonas from the start might have given us a bit more creativity but Marveaux had game time in Moscow and was poor imo.

[ATB]

We played at home against Stoke that has won 1 or 2 games away the whole season and is a team that will just defend. We have class, class players and still can´t create anything in the final third. But hey, we are great. Pardew is great. We will win PL next season.

 

Hate this "hypochondria" that everything we do is great and anything others do such. Rodgers has been laughed at all season over his "we won the possession". Now I see a lot of us used it as a argument that we played well "we had 58 % of the ball"

[ATB]

Tron just said it, at home against Stoke he chose to start Jonas and Tiote and not play Marv or Anita. Credit him all you like but if he didn't make these bullshit fear-based calls in the first place we might not be in holes that we have to dig ourselves out of.

 

Results make people forget, not me. We were seconds away from 31 points with 9 games to play. Looks a lot healthier this morning but bearing in mind the opposition and importance of the game yesterday I found his approach baffling. Took them to score before we remotely livened up, albeit they were s***. But we were at home and needed the points more than them.

 

But for all this supposed negativity we dominated the game. Check out the stats on possession, shots, corners etc. That doesn't show a side sitting back, it shows a side taking the game on. My take was not that we were negative but that we could not convert our pressure into goals against a side who don't aim to do much other than sit back and adopt "spoiling" tactics. Possibly Marveaux for Jonas from the start might have given us a bit more creativity but Marveaux had game time in Moscow and was poor imo.

 

Individually we are a much superior team then Stoke. That we won "the stat" doesn´t makes us having a good game. How many clear cut chances did we have? Not much considering the possession and shots we had, and thats what´s important.

[quayside]

We played at home against Stoke that has won 1 or 2 games away the whole season and is a team that will just defend. We have class, class players and still can´t create anything in the final third. But hey, we are great. Pardew is great. We will win PL next season.

 

Hate this "hypochondria" that everything we do is great and anything others do such. Rodgers has been laughed at all season over his "we won the possession". Now I see a lot of us used it as a argument that we played well "we had 58 % of the ball"

 

I merely used the stats point to counter the argument that we were negative. I'm not saying we were great or that we will win the PL.

[Toonpack]

Tron just said it, at home against Stoke he chose to start Jonas and Tiote and not play Marv or Anita. Credit him all you like but if he didn't make these bullshit fear-based calls in the first place we might not be in holes that we have to dig ourselves out of.

 

Results make people forget, not me. We were seconds away from 31 points with 9 games to play. Looks a lot healthier this morning but bearing in mind the opposition and importance of the game yesterday I found his approach baffling. Took them to score before we remotely livened up, albeit they were s***. But we were at home and needed the points more than them.

 

But for all this supposed negativity we dominated the game. Check out the stats on possession, shots, corners etc. That doesn't show a side sitting back, it shows a side taking the game on. My take was not that we were negative but that we could not convert our pressure into goals against a side who don't aim to do much other than sit back and adopt "spoiling" tactics. Possibly Marveaux for Jonas from the start might have given us a bit more creativity but Marveaux had game time in Moscow and was poor imo.

 

Individually we are a much superior team then Stoke. That we won "the stat" doesn´t makes us having a good game. How many clear cut chances did we have? Not much considering the possession and shots we had, and thats what´s important.

 

Gouffran missed a sitter first half, score first againts a team that parks the bus and the game changes irrevocably.

 

Only 5 teams have conceded less goals than Stoke away from home this season (the Manchesters, Chelsea, Everton and Swansea) they lose but they don't lose "big".

[Dr Venkman]

Tron just said it, at home against Stoke he chose to start Jonas and Tiote and not play Marv or Anita. Credit him all you like but if he didn't make these bullshit fear-based calls in the first place we might not be in holes that we have to dig ourselves out of.

 

Results make people forget, not me. We were seconds away from 31 points with 9 games to play. Looks a lot healthier this morning but bearing in mind the opposition and importance of the game yesterday I found his approach baffling. Took them to score before we remotely livened up, albeit they were s***. But we were at home and needed the points more than them.

 

But for all this supposed negativity we dominated the game. Check out the stats on possession, shots, corners etc. That doesn't show a side sitting back, it shows a side taking the game on. My take was not that we were negative but that we could not convert our pressure into goals against a side who don't aim to do much other than sit back and adopt "spoiling" tactics. Possibly Marveaux for Jonas from the start might have given us a bit more creativity but Marveaux had game time in Moscow and was poor imo.

 

Apply a bit of context, and some eyes, and it actually showed a team playing at home against an away team happy to surrender possession. We still didn't look like we knew how to break them down. Getting it wide and putting in crosses in wasn't working, most of the posters on this board could have told Pardew that it wouldn't work before kick off, we kept doing it though.

 

Again this is a case of taking things game by game. Were we 'negative' in the way we played yesterday? No, because they let us have the ball so we spent most of the time 'attacking'. However I think the inability to break them down is due to an over arching negativity in the outlook of the manager, we constantly look like we don't know how to attack as a team (and have for the vast majority of Pardew's time here) and we simply didn't have an answer yesterday for 75 minutes, all we had was putting crosses in and Sissoko running from deep. If the team were coached in an attacking sense this might have been a bit better, and if he didn't persist with Tiote/Jonas no matter what.

[Tiresias]

I agree with all that, our approach is all wrong, Pardew set our team up wrong. I just don't think it was that bad. If Gouffran had scored his early chance and Tiote hadn't given away that pen we'd probably all be thinking we should have slaughtered them but it was a perfectly acceptable win.

[Dr Venkman]

I agree, it wasn't that bad in isolation, we got 3 points. Our play this season has been that bad though, that's why we're 13th and needed loads of new players to get a few wins.

[mrmojorisin75]

agree with venkman etc. - we weren't negative yesterday but we were allowed to play and didn't know how to cut them open even with the calibre of player we have, it's been largely the same pattern under pardew for quite a while now at home imo

 

it's so strange, you can see they're not being taught that when 'player x' is in possession of the ball 'player y' has a specific role to open up play, get beyond, or make room for a pass in the channel or whatever tactical (attacking) nuances you want to look at

 

start of the season when cabaye was awful our tactics were give to HBA or boot it to Ba see if they can make something happen, now cabaye is playing again and we have sissoko it's up to both of them to pull something out of the hat...that's not quality football man, that's bollocks and makes it painfully obvious why teams can come and defend at SJP...fortunately for pardew he'll have HBA back so his chances of someone winning the game with their individual skill will soon increase by one

[Toonpack]

I agree, it wasn't that bad in isolation, we got 3 points. Our play this season has been that bad though, that's why we're 13th and needed loads of new players to get a few wins.

 

And the apparently seamless integration of these "loads of new players" is down to who

 

Personally I hope Pardew is our manager for the next 10 years, because for that to come to pass, we'll have to have been successful.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I agree with all that, our approach is all wrong, Pardew set our team up wrong. I just don't think it was that bad. If Gouffran had scored his early chance and Tiote hadn't given away that pen we'd probably all be thinking we should have slaughtered them but it was a perfectly acceptable win.

 

I think a lot of the time it is easy to forget how different a game could be if one or two minor moments had been different. If Gouff has scored we might have forced Stoke to at least try to attack, and picked them off a couple more times on the break.

 

It wasn't a great performance, but mainly because we chose the wrong options in attack. We never looked in danger of losing it except when Tiote had a brain freeze.

 

I understand why people would find the game frustrating, because in theory we should have been able to murder Stoke. But in reality it's more difficult than that.

[Dr Venkman]

I agree with all that, our approach is all wrong, Pardew set our team up wrong. I just don't think it was that bad. If Gouffran had scored his early chance and Tiote hadn't given away that pen we'd probably all be thinking we should have slaughtered them but it was a perfectly acceptable win.

 

I think a lot of the time it is easy to forget how different a game could be if one or two minor moments had been different. If Gouff has scored we might have forced Stoke to at least try to attack, and picked them off a couple more times on the break.

 

It wasn't a great performance, but mainly because we chose the wrong options in attack. We never looked in danger of losing it except when Tiote had a brain freeze.

 

I understand why people would find the game frustrating, because in theory we should have been able to murder Stoke. But in reality it's more difficult than that.

 

I agree in principle Ian, particularly with the first paragraph, but when an awful lot of games involve us looking pretty clueless as an attacking force then who we're playing against becomes less relevant and who's in charge of it is more relevant, imo.

[Guest icemanblue]

I genuinely can't see how we've been 'clueless as an attacking force', since the end of January.

[Gallowgate Toon]

People are simply underestimating how hard it is to break a team like Stoke down, as if it's as simple as saying 'we should pass and move more'. We have a very physical team, who are brilliant on the counter attack but are lacking in the creative department at present. We have 2 genuine flair players in the squad, who can open compact defences up with close control or a pass, but one of them's out injured at present and the other has deficiencies to his game.

 

This tiki taka talk is rubbish anyway, it's not an infallible style of play, just as we saw last week at Swansea, and you need a certain style of player to execute it. We shut Swansea down for long periods because of our physicality, Stoke did exactly the same to us yesterday, they executed their game plan very well.

[Toonpack]

People are simply underestimating how hard it is to break a team like Stoke down, as if it's as simple as saying 'we should pass and move more'. We have a very physical team, who are brilliant on the counter attack but are lacking in the creative department at present. We have 2 genuine flair players in the squad, who can open compact defences up with close control or a pass, but one of them's out injured at present and the other has deficiencies to his game.

 

This tiki taka talk is rubbish anyway, it's not an infallible style of play, just as we saw last week at Swansea, and you need a certain style of player to execute it. We shut Swansea down for long periods because of our physicality, Stoke did exactly the same to us yesterday, they executed their game plan very well.

 

So true, only Man U (4) Citeh and Swansea (3) and us with our 2, have scored more than one at home against Stoke all season.

 

So I guess that means only SAF, Mancini and Laudrup have been more astute at tackling Stoke then Pardew. 

[Dave]

They also can't win or score away from home.

[Disco]

Interesting (well not as interesting as flinging the same stale shit at each other) that the centre backs didn't play as a LCB/RCB yesterday, instead Taylor pretty much man-marked Crouch and Yanga-Mbiwa was left to deal with the space or Jerome/Walters coming from outside/deep. Worked well too aside from 1 or 2 very slight mishaps where wires were crossed. Canny management from the wanker in the dugout.

[Jack Flash]

I agree with all that, our approach is all wrong, Pardew set our team up wrong. I just don't think it was that bad. If Gouffran had scored his early chance and Tiote hadn't given away that pen we'd probably all be thinking we should have slaughtered them but it was a perfectly acceptable win.

 

If we're talking ifs and buts, If Cisse had been offside at the end how many would be defending the performance if it only got a 1-1 draw?

 

IMO we deserved to draw. From memory (and MOTD) it was only that Cisse shot in the 98th minute which troubled the keeper from open play.

[The College Dropout]

Agreed. Stoke are good at defending. And that's what they done. Our class won us the game.

[Toonpack]

They also can't win or score away from home.

 

and they didn't beat us either, they draw a lot away from home, usually 0-0 (ask Spurs and Liverpool)

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Give a good manager this team, and you've got a top 6 contender on your hands.

 

Erm...

[Toonpack]

He got the subs right yesterday, will give his his due on that.

 

However, we were very very poor against an absolutely woeful side, that yes go out to spoil a game but the calibre of player we have should be able to counter that. We were defensively sound I like the Taylor/MYM combo nice and physical with decent ball distribution. However, I really struggle to think of a game where we have played well, of a similar ilk to last season.

 

Im firmly of the opinion that we tend to rely only on individuals to produce, there is no pattern of play, people don't really seem to know what they are doing off the ball. Stoke are woeful, make no mistake about that.

 

Give a good manager this team, and you've got a top 6 contender on your hands.

 

 

Who can you guarantee would do that for us ?? We've tried the manager switcheroo numerous times over the years, it's not worked yet, mind you we were top 5 last season.

[Toonpack]

He got the subs right yesterday, will give his his due on that.

 

However, we were very very poor against an absolutely woeful side, that yes go out to spoil a game but the calibre of player we have should be able to counter that. We were defensively sound I like the Taylor/MYM combo nice and physical with decent ball distribution. However, I really struggle to think of a game where we have played well, of a similar ilk to last season.

 

Im firmly of the opinion that we tend to rely only on individuals to produce, there is no pattern of play, people don't really seem to know what they are doing off the ball. Stoke are woeful, make no mistake about that.

 

Give a good manager this team, and you've got a top 6 contender on your hands.

 

 

Who can you guarantee would do that for us ?? We've tried the manager switcheroo numerous times over the years, it's not worked yet, mind you we were top 5 last season.

 

We were and I've given credit for that, it would be ultimately hypocritical to not. But do you honestly feel Pardew will deliver for this club? Our squad man for man is as good as any bar Manu/City/Spurs/Chelsea.  I don't have a suggestion for a replacement, but that doesn't negate the points.

 

I don't know tbh, but I absolutely do know, (outside of vast amonts of cash and maybe a Mourinho) that our managerial merry go round (since KK's first spell) hasn't worked, even our, decidedly average, "highs" over the years since were never quite as high as the highs before.

 

I also know, if the significant groundswell on this board to get rid, had governed Man U and Everton, Ferguson and Moyes would have been fired in their third seasons in charge (finishing 13th and 17th respectively).

 

I am quite prepared to give the bloke time, if next season starts like this one, it's a different ball game, but the signs since he actually had depth to utilise are fine by me.

 

A new manager guarantees nothing, just look down the road at Marty's party.

 

There's a hell of a lot more right than wrong just now IMO.

 

Edit: BTW I've been watching this club since the mid 60's and no fucker has truly "delivered" since 1969.

[Toonpack]

He got the subs right yesterday, will give his his due on that.

 

However, we were very very poor against an absolutely woeful side, that yes go out to spoil a game but the calibre of player we have should be able to counter that. We were defensively sound I like the Taylor/MYM combo nice and physical with decent ball distribution. However, I really struggle to think of a game where we have played well, of a similar ilk to last season.

 

Im firmly of the opinion that we tend to rely only on individuals to produce, there is no pattern of play, people don't really seem to know what they are doing off the ball. Stoke are woeful, make no mistake about that.

 

Give a good manager this team, and you've got a top 6 contender on your hands.

 

 

Who can you guarantee would do that for us ?? We've tried the manager switcheroo numerous times over the years, it's not worked yet, mind you we were top 5 last season.

 

We were and I've given credit for that, it would be ultimately hypocritical to not. But do you honestly feel Pardew will deliver for this club? Our squad man for man is as good as any bar Manu/City/Spurs/Chelsea.  I don't have a suggestion for a replacement, but that doesn't negate the points.

 

I don't know tbh, but I absolutely do know, (outside of vast amonts of cash and maybe a Mourinho) that our managerial merry go round (since KK's first spell) hasn't worked, even our, decidedly average, "highs" over the years since were never quite as the high as the highs before.

 

I also know, if the significant groundswell on this board to get rid, had governed Man U and Everton, Ferguson and Moyes would have been fired in their third seasons in charge (finishing 13th and 17th respectively).

 

I am quite prepared to give the bloke time, if next season starts like this one, it's a different ball game, but the signs since he actually had depth to utilise are fine by me.

 

A new manager guarantees nothing, just look down the road at Marty's party.

 

There's a hell of a lot more right than wrong just now IMO.

 

Fair enough mate, well made points. I agree it hasn't worked for us in the past, but that doesn't mean a new manager wouldn't deliver better results but I take your point. I do feel, and have done for a while that the overall coaching set up is stale, I'd like to see the addition of coaching staff at least, if we are to stick with the manager

 

I actually think that the way the new players have slotted in, is under recognised as a "plus mark" for the coaching staff.

 

Our biggest problem is the fact that (in football terms) our "turnaround" under KK (first time) was metaphorically in the blink of an eye, that lightning is unlikely to strike twice. I am quite happy to let a longer game play out to the extent that even if we'd gone down (which I don't think we will now) I'd have kept him for another year.

 

The swaperoo has never worked, I'm quite happy to sit back chillax and wait and see what happens with a bit of stability. May work, may not, but then again nothing much has worked in my forty odd years of watching this lot, but hanging in there and being patient is actually trying something new, unheard of even.