JH Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 Got to agree with indi to an extent. Some of the players have been f***ing awful this season. Lack of competition for places probably. Which stems back to that disastrous summer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 Got to agree with indi to an extent. Some of the players have been f***ing awful this season. Lack of competition for places probably. Which stems back to that disastrous summer. What are they meant to do though Jonny, someone like Cisse who has long balls fired at him all day long, how can he possibly improve his performance off his own bat? The only way he could is to completely change his game and turn into Andy Carroll. Are they meant to work on passing and moving in their spare time because of the manager's incompetence? Are they meant to go against his instructions of "keep it tight and hit Ba early"? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JH Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 No, and like I said, I agree to an extent. It's clear our formation, our hooftastic game plan, our set pieces, the lot aren't working. But other than HBA and probably Ba, not one of those players can claim they've given their all this season IMO. You don't become a poor player just because you're in a different line on the pitch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 No, and like I said, I agree to an extent. It's clear our formation, our hooftastic game plan, our set pieces, the lot aren't working. But other than HBA and probably Ba, not one of those players can claim they've given their all this season IMO. You don't become a poor player just because you're in a different line on the pitch. I don't see any evidence of players not giving their all - in fact that is all the manager is asking for, we never hear him talk at the minute about anything other than grinding or working, well apart from magic and luck. You do become a poor player if you're outnumbered and have nobody to pass to because they're not allowed out of their position, or if you're being asked to win headers against bruising centre halves when you're physically incapable of it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 Even I'm starting to get worried now. The confidence of the team seems shot to pieces, this is one of the hardest things for any manager to turn around, especially without a lot of his best players. I think we're hoping for a bit of individual magic from a player to win us a game and give us a boost. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shak Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 No, and like I said, I agree to an extent. It's clear our formation, our hooftastic game plan, our set pieces, the lot aren't working. But other than HBA and probably Ba, not one of those players can claim they've given their all this season IMO. You don't become a poor player just because you're in a different line on the pitch. I don't see any evidence of players not giving their all - in fact that is all the manager is asking for, we never hear him talk at the minute about anything other than grinding or working, well apart from magic and luck. You do become a poor player if you're outnumbered and have nobody to pass to because they're not allowed out of their position, or if you're being asked to win headers against bruising centre halves when you're physically incapable of it. Did you see his quotes from yesterday? Apparently the key to turning this around is winning more headers, trying harder and (my personal favourite) running faster. I think the formation thing is getting in the way of what we’ve got to do. That’s winning headers, running faster and showing a desire to win the game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Logic Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 Excellent, he's finally opened his eyes to the problem. Now we'll see a turnaround of fortunes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crumpy Gunt Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 It very much looks like the players themselves have lost patience with the manager. I hope this isn't the case but the sum total of our starting 11 yesterday should have done a shitload better than they did. We could (and probably did deserve) to have lost by 5 or 6 yesterday off the statistacally (pre KO) 2nd worst team in the division. Our last 3 or 4 games have got worse and worse. Not a good sign. Be interesting to see what happens at Stoke. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lush Vlad Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 No, and like I said, I agree to an extent. It's clear our formation, our hooftastic game plan, our set pieces, the lot aren't working. But other than HBA and probably Ba, not one of those players can claim they've given their all this season IMO. You don't become a poor player just because you're in a different line on the pitch. I don't see any evidence of players not giving their all - in fact that is all the manager is asking for, we never hear him talk at the minute about anything other than grinding or working, well apart from magic and luck. You do become a poor player if you're outnumbered and have nobody to pass to because they're not allowed out of their position, or if you're being asked to win headers against bruising centre halves when you're physically incapable of it. Did you see his quotes from yesterday? Apparently the key to turning this around is winning more headers, trying harder and (my personal favourite) running faster. I think the formation thing is getting in the way of what we’ve got to do. That’s winning headers, running faster and showing a desire to win the game. Fuck off is that real? You've made this up haven't you?! I know winning games last season helped us ignore some comments to a degree. But his PR and comments to the press have been embarrassing, cringeworthy and annoying as fuck in the last 2-3 weeks. He's cracked and he's doing all he can to deflect the blame. The journal article from this morning is worrying though. Saying the players have to get us out of this rut, still blaming the injuries and Europe. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate Toon Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 Is it any surprise the team looks completely devoid of confidence? The way Pards plays, screams of a lack of faith in his team's ability and his recently negative soundbites will be making the situation worse. Yesterday, it looked like all of their imagination and drive had been drained out of them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 This guy still doesn't seem to be showing any inclination to try something different tactically. Thinks it's just a case of the players having to give more? I mean is this guy for real? They are all underperfroming because the setup and approach isn't quite working. Please change things around a bit you joker! The guy is looking completely devoid of any mangerial ability at the moment. My God. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 Still feels too early for me to make those kind of judgements about whether he's lost the players or not. They've not been shy of laying on the lavish praise up until a month or two back. The problem is that this slump couldn't have come at a worse time. With the upcoming fixtures we'll be lucky to be on 25pts before the end of the year. An early exit from the FA Cup and the pressure will really be on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 Still feels too early for me to make those kind of judgements about whether he's lost the players or not. They've not been shy of laying on the lavish praise up until a month or two back. The problem is that this slump couldn't have come at a worse time. With the upcoming fixtures we'll be lucky to be on 25pts before the end of the year. An early exit from the FA Cup and the pressure will really be on. Agree with you there, all the latest info suggests that the players basically love Pardew. Obviously they will be having a tough time at the moment, but I think people are choosing to argue he has lost the dressing room without any evidence. A couple of wins and things will turn around, the question is whether we can grind them out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 I can't imagine Ben Arfa, Cabaye, Anita, Coloccini, Cisse, Ba, Santon, Marveaux and Amalfitano being big fans of his football 'philosophy' tbh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shak Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 No, and like I said, I agree to an extent. It's clear our formation, our hooftastic game plan, our set pieces, the lot aren't working. But other than HBA and probably Ba, not one of those players can claim they've given their all this season IMO. You don't become a poor player just because you're in a different line on the pitch. I don't see any evidence of players not giving their all - in fact that is all the manager is asking for, we never hear him talk at the minute about anything other than grinding or working, well apart from magic and luck. You do become a poor player if you're outnumbered and have nobody to pass to because they're not allowed out of their position, or if you're being asked to win headers against bruising centre halves when you're physically incapable of it. Did you see his quotes from yesterday? Apparently the key to turning this around is winning more headers, trying harder and (my personal favourite) running faster. I think the formation thing is getting in the way of what we’ve got to do. That’s winning headers, running faster and showing a desire to win the game. Fuck off is that real? You've made this up haven't you?! I know winning games last season helped us ignore some comments to a degree. But his PR and comments to the press have been embarrassing, cringeworthy and annoying as fuck in the last 2-3 weeks. He's cracked and he's doing all he can to deflect the blame. The journal article from this morning is worrying though. Saying the players have to get us out of this rut, still blaming the injuries and Europe. I wish. http://www.sundaysun.co.uk/sport/newcastle-united/nufc-news/2012/11/25/stats-show-newcastle-united-squad-is-being-pushed-to-limit-79310-32301547/ Towards the end of that piece, buried in some slightly less stupid shit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beren Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 Still feels too early for me to make those kind of judgements about whether he's lost the players or not. They've not been shy of laying on the lavish praise up until a month or two back. The problem is that this slump couldn't have come at a worse time. With the upcoming fixtures we'll be lucky to be on 25pts before the end of the year. An early exit from the FA Cup and the pressure will really be on. Agree with you there, all the latest info suggests that the players basically love Pardew. Obviously they will be having a tough time at the moment, but I think people are choosing to argue he has lost the dressing room without any evidence. A couple of wins and things will turn around, the question is whether we can grind them out. I think undue emphasis is placed on the "loss of the dressing room" personally. If the players/team are underperforming whilst on board with his direction/strategy (and they are, IMO!), what's the difference? Rather surprised/disappointed there hasn't been more action-based dissension from the players. Would have thought at some point, the players would ignore Pardew's instructions to hoof it, and play possession football on the deck with a bit more patience (rather than Pardew's admitted tactic of hitting the Dembas asap). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
merlin Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 It very much looks like the players themselves have lost patience with the manager. I hope this isn't the case but the sum total of our starting 11 yesterday should have done a shitload better than they did. We could (and probably did deserve) to have lost by 5 or 6 yesterday off the statistacally (pre KO) 2nd worst team in the division. Our last 3 or 4 games have got worse and worse. Not a good sign. Be interesting to see what happens at Stoke. Agree - the players probably have sussed him, but even worse is the suspicion that quite a few of them have sussed the board and its lack of ambition. Always thought Cabaye was miffed about the Debuchy deal breaking down and also, Pardew possibly told the players that more signings were coming last summer in order to stop them wanting to leave. Expect Ba to go in January and maybe one or two others as well. Chickens coming home to roost, not just for Pardew but also the board and their parsimonious transfer dealings...doesn't bear thinking about if we lost 2 quality players because you couldn't bank on them getting adequate replacements. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spider Jerusalem Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 With the upcoming fixtures we'll be lucky to be on 25pts before the end of the year. To be honest Dave 25 points is normally what I'd be hoping for as a base by Christmas to be mid-table or higher. At the minute the way we're playing I can't see us moving off 14 (the likelyhood is that we'll end up nicking one or two wins somewhere down the line though). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 It very much looks like the players themselves have lost patience with the manager. I hope this isn't the case but the sum total of our starting 11 yesterday should have done a shitload better than they did. We could (and probably did deserve) to have lost by 5 or 6 yesterday off the statistacally (pre KO) 2nd worst team in the division. Our last 3 or 4 games have got worse and worse. Not a good sign. Be interesting to see what happens at Stoke. Agree - the players probably have sussed him, but even worse is the suspicion that quite a few of them have sussed the board and its lack of ambition. Always thought Cabaye was miffed about the Debuchy deal breaking down and also, Pardew possibly told the players that more signings were coming last summer in order to stop them wanting to leave. Expect Ba to go in January and maybe one or two others as well. Chickens coming home to roost, not just for Pardew but also the board and their parsimonious transfer dealings...doesn't bear thinking about if we lost 2 quality players because you couldn't bank on them getting adequate replacements. Don't buy this at all. The players thought he was incredible because we finished well last season, but now they've 'sussed' him because we haven't played well this season? I know players aren't the brightest, but do you really think they change their minds like this about a guy they work with every day? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 I mean everytime I watch the team, I am startled by how much Ba and Cisse struggle to hold the ball up when the long balls are launched at them. They're both terrible at it, and lose it under the slightest bit of pressure. How can the manager of the team continue to see this and not try to change it? I really struggle to understand such things. If we had Carroll up there winning everything then great, but we blatantly don't. It's November, and this has been going on since August. How much longer do you continue to implore the two strikers to work harder at somethign they don't seem capable of doing, before you consider a different approach? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 Still feels too early for me to make those kind of judgements about whether he's lost the players or not. They've not been shy of laying on the lavish praise up until a month or two back. The problem is that this slump couldn't have come at a worse time. With the upcoming fixtures we'll be lucky to be on 25pts before the end of the year. An early exit from the FA Cup and the pressure will really be on. It's not hard to love Pardew, he's an infectious character, who's totally turned round my opinion of him as a person, so I can well imagine the players are fond of him. But love him or not his football philosophy stinks, and no genuine footballer will remain happy if he keeps making them look bad by playing football designed for a different set of players. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinmk Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 Football isn't exactly overflowing with loyalty and honour these days anyway, doubt very much they all worship him just because we finished well last season. Personally if I hear someone saying one thing all the time and doing another then I lose respect for them very quickly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Swift Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 I can't believe that I'm going to defend him but you know what, in Moyes first season with Everton they finished 7th, scoring 48 goals. In his second season, they barely survived, finishing 17th and scoring only 45 goals. In his next season, they finished 4th but again only scoring 45 goals and somehow managing a goal difference of -1 (!!!). In his first 4 seasons, they didn't crack 50 goals and were the definition of the solid and hard to beat team, eking out wins through sheer hard work and a propensity to create a goal out of nothing. Since then, they've never been below 50 goals, cracked 60 once and are well on course to crack it again this year. What's the point of all this? Things change with time. Moyes' team played boring football for many years, eking out wins and finishing in the top 10 each year. They progressed gradually, their style of football changed and now theyre guaranteed top 7 contenders. Is Pardew Moyes? Possibly. Possibly not. He might be a Bruce, someone who can get a good season or two out of a team but can't deliver consistently. But he can also be Moyes. Our style isn't a pleasure to watch at the moment but the season is very long and many things can change. Pardew isn't the manager that we want him to be but he is the one that we have. His success last year merits at least a full year of support, relegation notwithstanding. It would be folly and hasty to change managers again after what was a brilliant year last year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 Imagine yourself as one of the players. You have a manager you like and the team did well last season. Cool. This season however, things haven't been going well for the team, and everyone is playing poorly, literally everyone. Every single person. I imagine the whole team must be frustrated with the whole situation. A dressing room full of frustrated irritable players. Not good. Okay, so they all look to the manager, to do something different, and I would guess some of them even suggest changing things. I mean, this is how I would be thinking anyway! However, the manager sticks with the same formula, and 'encourages' them to run harder and jump higher. Yeah, that would eventually p*ss me off. A lot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 History can only take Pardew so far, especially when he doesn't use it to his advantage. There is nothing about us finishing 5th last season that is being used this season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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