Shak Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 MARTIN SAMUEL - THE DEBATE: Why turn to Pellegrini - the man who blew £200m at Real Madrid - when there's Pardew, Poyet, Martinez (or even Justin Edinburgh...)? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2325090/MARTIN-SAMUEL--THE-DEBATE-Why-turn-Pellegrini--man-blew-200m-Real-Madrid--theres-Pardew-Poyet-Martinez-Justin-Edinburgh--.html http://i.imgur.com/t9kzu.gif Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 MARTIN SAMUEL - THE DEBATE: Why turn to Pellegrini - the man who blew £200m at Real Madrid - when there's Pardew, Poyet, Martinez (or even Justin Edinburgh...)? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2325090/MARTIN-SAMUEL--THE-DEBATE-Why-turn-Pellegrini--man-blew-200m-Real-Madrid--theres-Pardew-Poyet-Martinez-Justin-Edinburgh--.html http://i.imgur.com/cbQwshI.gif Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 Pardew seems to be a media luvvy much like Martin O'Neill is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbers Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 Martin Samuel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiresias Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 No no let's try and get this into a campaign... Pardew is such a great coach! Please don't poach him Man City! That would be terrible Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 And people try to say Samuel is a good journalist fat stupid fuck. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattoon Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 And people try to say Samuel is a good journalist fat stupid f***. Martin Samuel is a fucking window licker Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ketsbaia Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 That's a new standard of shite journalism. Honestly, even a parody site wouldnt say that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hughesy Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 If you actually read the article, he isn't really touting Pardew for the Man City job at all. The headline is somewhat sensationalist and misleading. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ste Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 He even argues against someone saying Steve Bruce would be a terrible appointment for a big club cos he has won promotions, kept poor teams in the Premiership and captained Man United. Jesus. Why have I read this far? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hughesy Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 He even argues against someone saying Steve Bruce would be a terrible appointment for a big club cos he has won promotions, kept poor teams in the Premiership and captained Man United. Jesus. Why have I read this far? Steve Bruce might be taking the example a bit far, but it is pretty clear what he is arguing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 Hughesy and Martin Samuel sitting in a tree, K I S Tree fell over, both died. The end. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hughesy Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 Hughesy and Martin Samuel sitting in a tree, K I S Tree fell over, both died. The end. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 If this was a 24 team league and therefore 6 games longer I really don't think it would improve by much if at all. We look dreadful at the moment and we're really lucky that the season is over when it is imo. Exactly, people say we haven't been lucky this season, but I'd argue our luck stems to having 3 teams in the league that have managed to be shitter than us somehow. Previous seasons would have seen us go down IMHO. Totally wrong, we've collected a points total that would keep us up nearly every season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest icemanblue Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 If this was a 24 team league and therefore 6 games longer I really don't think it would improve by much if at all. We look dreadful at the moment and we're really lucky that the season is over when it is imo. Exactly, people say we haven't been lucky this season, but I'd argue our luck stems to having 3 teams in the league that have managed to be shitter than us somehow. Previous seasons would have seen us go down IMHO. Totally wrong, we've collected a points total that would keep us up nearly every season. We haven't quite reached that 'magic over 41 points mark'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
loki679 Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 40 points is generally regarded as the safety mark, we've reached that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ste Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 Martin Samuel seems to just hold onto his opinion in that article and just pick holes in others questions. I don't think the point he has tried to make is a notable one. People don't look for foreign managers simply because they're not British, but rather the British managers available are, on the whole, not as good as those who have managed abroad and know a few different leagues. Wish more of our coaches would go abroad. Respect for McLaren for his stints in Holland and Germany, when he could have perhaps simply stayed in England and gone from job to job. He has at least tried to learn a new game and new philosophies. Success in the lower leagues will of course put you nowhere near contention for the top jobs. I'm sure if Poyet wanted to, he could land a Premiership job next season, and given a few years if he is successful, why can't he then land himself a 'big' job? A British manager has just landed the biggest job in football. There is the other side to the coin of the point that Samuel is making. Success by and large is rewarded, a lot of our coaches are simply lacking. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ste Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 Samuel also completely ignores the point that City have had a British manager since they came into money. Mark Hughes bombed there. Not saying he is the best of the British managers available, but they did explore that route after Sven. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 I wonder if that article could be a new refuge for Pardew fans. 'You want rid of a manager that was touted for the Man City job?' Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 I wonder if that article could be a new refuge for Pardew fans. 'You want rid of a manager that was touted for the Man City job?' Can confirm I will not be using that argument. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 I wonder if that article could be a new refuge for Pardew fans. 'You want rid of a manager that was touted for the Man City job?' I don't think there are any "Pardew fans". There are people that believe Pardew's definitely not going to be any better next season and want rid, happy to let the chips fall where they may. There are others that believe the mitigating circumstances of this season suggest he could do better. Combined with the risk involved whenever Ashley gets involved in making an appointment, we might do better next season by leaving the current manager in place. If he doesn't show any signs of sorting our problems early on, then his position will become untenable. I wonder what Pardew will say in his defence at this meeting though. He can hardly go in and tell Ashley he shouldn't be sacked because Llambias and he are incompetent. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hughesy Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 Martin Samuel seems to just hold onto his opinion in that article and just pick holes in others questions. I don't think the point he has tried to make is a notable one. People don't look for foreign managers simply because they're not British, but rather the British managers available are, on the whole, not as good as those who have managed abroad and know a few different leagues. Wish more of our coaches would go abroad. Respect for McLaren for his stints in Holland and Germany, when he could have perhaps simply stayed in England and gone from job to job. He has at least tried to learn a new game and new philosophies. Success in the lower leagues will of course put you nowhere near contention for the top jobs. I'm sure if Poyet wanted to, he could land a Premiership job next season, and given a few years if he is successful, why can't he then land himself a 'big' job? A British manager has just landed the biggest job in football. There is the other side to the coin of the point that Samuel is making. Success by and large is rewarded, a lot of our coaches are simply lacking. I read his article as stating more that the achievements of English managers are often underplayed which means that they don't get the opportunity to prove themselves at bigger clubs. Taking Moyes as an example - if he was an Italian manager in an Italian league, I think it is fair to say that he would have got an opportunity earlier in his career to manage a 'big' club sooner. I am probably going to show up my lack of foreign footballing knowledge here, but look at the 'local' managers that have managed big clubs in Italy over the last 20 years or so: AC Milan: Giorgio Morini, Alberto Zaccheroni, Massimiliano Allegri Inter: Giampiero Marini, Ottavio Bianchi, Luciano Castellini, Luigi Simoni, Marco Tardelli, Corrado Verdelli, Alberto Zaccheroni, Gian Gasperini, Andrea Stramaccioni. Juventus: Ciro Ferrara, Alberto Zaccheroni, Luigi Del Neri, Antonio Conte. Roma: Cesare Prandelli, Luigi Del Neri, Bruno Conti, Luciano Spalletti, Vincenzo Montella. Has many of the above 'achieved' as much as Moyes? Martinez? I mean even the point about Bruce is valid (to a degree) - the guy has actually got a decent record at getting teams promoted and did a good job at Wigan (and with hindsight, an alright one at Sunderland). However, there was never a chance he would manage a top club in England. We just don't give English managers the chances to manage top English teams in the way that an Italian club would to an Italian manager. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
loki679 Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 He happily ignores the fact that a lot of those british managers are simply serial relegators on the jobs for the boys gravy train. British managers will succeed if they're good enough. Fergie, Moyes, Bobby, KK, Steve Clarke (ok, not a big job but he's early in his career and getting plaudits). Then look at the rest of the candidates, Pardew, Bruce, Hughes, McLeish, Allardyce, Kean, Souness et al. Nobody would want those jokers managing their club. In fact, i'd take an unknown foreign manager over any single one of them simply because I know they're shit managers whereas the unknown foreign guy has a chance of being decent at least. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swissmag Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 I wonder if that article could be a new refuge for Pardew fans. 'You want rid of a manager that was touted for the Man City job?' Can confirm I will not be using that argument. I'd be proud if he managed Man City tbh Same here ;-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 Isn't the difference that most of those continental managers earn their stripes on the training pitch first. Managing youth teams or assisting other managers. Learning their trade. The likes of Hughes, Bruce, Pardew and Souness walk straight into high profile jobs, spending no time off the radar where they can make mistakes, learn from them and come into a top job a more educated manager. They come into it having only observed management from a players perspective. Moyes earned his stripes taking a club about to be relegated from division 2 up to the playoffs for a place in the Premier league. He had the respect of players at PNE as a player that had played at the top (for a short while), played at the club, before becoming a coach, then assistant manager and then manager. He had the respect of Everton players for what he did at PNE. He'll have the respect of man U players for what he did at Everton. There's nothing a Newcastle player can respect about Pardew at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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