Alan Pardew

[Ste]

He even argues against someone saying Steve Bruce would be a terrible appointment for a big club cos he has won promotions, kept poor teams in the Premiership and captained Man United. Jesus. Why have I read this far?

[Hughesy]

He even argues against someone saying Steve Bruce would be a terrible appointment for a big club cos he has won promotions, kept poor teams in the Premiership and captained Man United. Jesus. Why have I read this far?

 

Steve Bruce might be taking the example a bit far, but it is pretty clear what he is arguing.

[Cajun]

Hughesy and Martin Samuel sitting in a tree, K I S

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Tree fell over, both died. The end.

[Hughesy]

Hughesy and Martin Samuel sitting in a tree, K I S

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Tree fell over, both died. The end.

 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

If this was a 24 team league and therefore 6 games longer I really don't think it would improve by much if at all. We look dreadful at the moment and we're really lucky that the season is over when it is imo.

 

Exactly, people say we haven't been lucky this season, but I'd argue our luck stems to having 3 teams in the league that have managed to be shitter than us somehow. Previous seasons would have seen us go down IMHO.

 

Totally wrong, we've collected a points total that would keep us up nearly every season.

[Guest icemanblue]

If this was a 24 team league and therefore 6 games longer I really don't think it would improve by much if at all. We look dreadful at the moment and we're really lucky that the season is over when it is imo.

 

Exactly, people say we haven't been lucky this season, but I'd argue our luck stems to having 3 teams in the league that have managed to be shitter than us somehow. Previous seasons would have seen us go down IMHO.

 

Totally wrong, we've collected a points total that would keep us up nearly every season.

 

We haven't quite reached that 'magic over 41 points mark'.

[loki679]

40 points is generally regarded as the safety mark, we've reached that.

[Ste]

Martin Samuel seems to just hold onto his opinion in that article and just pick holes in others questions. I don't think the point he has tried to make is a notable one. People don't look for foreign managers simply because they're not British, but rather the British managers available are, on the whole, not as good as those who have managed abroad and know a few different leagues.

 

Wish more of our coaches would go abroad. Respect for McLaren for his stints in Holland and Germany, when he could have perhaps simply stayed in England and gone from job to job. He has at least tried to learn a new game and new philosophies.

 

Success in the lower leagues will of course put you nowhere near contention for the top jobs. I'm sure if Poyet wanted to, he could land a Premiership job next season, and given a few years if he is successful, why can't he then land himself a 'big' job?

 

A British manager has just landed the biggest job in football. There is the other side to the coin of the point that Samuel is making. Success by and large is rewarded, a lot of our coaches are simply lacking.

[Ste]

Samuel also completely ignores the point that City have had a British manager since they came into money. Mark Hughes bombed there. Not saying he is the best of the British managers available, but they did explore that route after Sven.

[Dave]

I wonder if that article could be a new refuge for Pardew fans. 'You want rid of a manager that was touted for the Man City job?'

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I wonder if that article could be a new refuge for Pardew fans. 'You want rid of a manager that was touted for the Man City job?'

 

 

Can confirm I will not be using that argument.

[Happy Face]

I wonder if that article could be a new refuge for Pardew fans. 'You want rid of a manager that was touted for the Man City job?'

 

I don't think there are any "Pardew fans". 

 

There are people that believe Pardew's definitely not going to be any better next season and want rid, happy to let the chips fall where they may. 

 

There are others that believe the mitigating circumstances of this season suggest he could do better.  Combined with the risk involved whenever Ashley gets involved in making an appointment, we  might do better next season by leaving the current manager in place.  If he doesn't show any signs of sorting our problems early on, then his position will become untenable.

 

I wonder what Pardew will say in his defence at this meeting though.  He can hardly go in and tell Ashley he shouldn't be sacked because Llambias and he are incompetent. 

 

[Hughesy]

Martin Samuel seems to just hold onto his opinion in that article and just pick holes in others questions. I don't think the point he has tried to make is a notable one. People don't look for foreign managers simply because they're not British, but rather the British managers available are, on the whole, not as good as those who have managed abroad and know a few different leagues.

 

Wish more of our coaches would go abroad. Respect for McLaren for his stints in Holland and Germany, when he could have perhaps simply stayed in England and gone from job to job. He has at least tried to learn a new game and new philosophies.

 

Success in the lower leagues will of course put you nowhere near contention for the top jobs. I'm sure if Poyet wanted to, he could land a Premiership job next season, and given a few years if he is successful, why can't he then land himself a 'big' job?

 

A British manager has just landed the biggest job in football. There is the other side to the coin of the point that Samuel is making. Success by and large is rewarded, a lot of our coaches are simply lacking.

 

I read his article as stating more that the achievements of English managers are often underplayed which means that they don't get the opportunity to prove themselves at bigger clubs.  Taking Moyes as an example - if he was an Italian manager in an Italian league, I think it is fair to say that he would have got an opportunity earlier in his career to manage a 'big' club sooner.  I am probably going to show up my lack of foreign footballing knowledge here, but look at the 'local' managers that have managed big clubs in Italy over the last 20 years or so:

 

AC Milan: Giorgio Morini, Alberto Zaccheroni, Massimiliano Allegri

 

Inter: Giampiero Marini, Ottavio Bianchi, Luciano Castellini, Luigi Simoni, Marco Tardelli, Corrado Verdelli,  Alberto Zaccheroni, Gian Gasperini, Andrea Stramaccioni.

 

Juventus: Ciro Ferrara, Alberto Zaccheroni, Luigi Del Neri, Antonio Conte.

 

Roma: Cesare Prandelli, Luigi Del Neri, Bruno Conti, Luciano Spalletti, Vincenzo Montella.

 

Has many of the above 'achieved' as much as Moyes?  Martinez?  I mean even the point about Bruce is valid (to a degree) - the guy has actually got a decent record at getting teams promoted and did a good job at Wigan (and with hindsight, an alright one at Sunderland).  However, there was never a chance he would manage a top club in England.  We just don't give English managers the chances to manage top English teams in the way that an Italian club would to an Italian manager.

[loki679]

He happily ignores the fact that a lot of those british managers are simply serial relegators on the jobs for the boys gravy train.

 

British managers will succeed if they're good enough.  Fergie, Moyes, Bobby, KK, Steve Clarke (ok, not a big job but he's early in his career and getting plaudits). 

 

Then look at the rest of the candidates, Pardew, Bruce, Hughes, McLeish, Allardyce, Kean, Souness et al.  Nobody would want those jokers managing their club.  In fact, i'd take an unknown foreign manager over any single one of them simply because I know they're shit managers whereas the unknown foreign guy has a chance of being decent at least.

[Swissmag]

I wonder if that article could be a new refuge for Pardew fans. 'You want rid of a manager that was touted for the Man City job?'

 

 

Can confirm I will not be using that argument.

 

I'd be proud if he managed Man City tbh

 

Same here ;-)

[Happy Face]

Isn't the difference that most of those continental managers earn their stripes on the training pitch first.  Managing youth teams or assisting other managers.  Learning their trade.

 

The likes of Hughes, Bruce, Pardew and Souness walk straight into high profile jobs, spending no time off the radar where they can make mistakes, learn from them and come into a top job a more educated manager.  They come into it having only observed management from a players perspective.

 

Moyes earned his stripes taking a club about to be relegated from division 2 up to the playoffs for a place in the Premier league.  He had the respect of players at PNE as a player that had played at the top (for a short while), played at the club, before becoming a coach, then assistant manager and then manager.  He had the respect of Everton players for what he did at PNE.  He'll have the respect of man U players for what he did at Everton.

 

There's nothing a Newcastle player can respect about Pardew at all.

[Guest Roger Kint]

Cancelled his phone in tomorrow?

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Cancelled his phone in tomorrow?

 

Postponed until after Arsenal, announced yesterday or the day before.

[loki679]

Isn't the difference that most of those continental managers earn their stripes on the training pitch first.  Managing youth teams or assisting other managers.  Learning their trade.

 

The likes of Hughes, Bruce, Pardew and Souness walk straight into high profile jobs, spending no time off the radar where they can make mistakes, learn from them and come into a top job a more educated manager.  They come into it having only observed management from a players perspective.

 

Moyes earned his stripes taking a club about to be relegated from division 2 up to the playoffs for a place in the Premier league.  He had the respect of players at PNE as a player that had played at the top.  He had the respect of Everton players for what he did at PNE.  He'll have the respect of man U players for what he did at Everton.

 

There's nothing a Newcastle player can respect about Pardew at all.

 

I think you're spot on there.  Ferguson had his time at Aberdeen, Moyes at Preston, Wenger managed over in Japan for a while as I remember.  Even O'Neill (as shit as he was in his later years, he was decent when he was younger) did his time at Wycombe and Leicester.

[Ikon]

He's gone!

[David Icke - Son of God]

He's gone!

 

To London?

[Guest Roger Kint]

Cancelled his phone in tomorrow?

 

Postponed until after Arsenal, announced yesterday or the day before.

 

Ah ok, only just seen it now. Its going to look a daft decision if we get twatted on Sunday. He would have got an easier ride tomorrow thats for sure.

[Happy Face]

Isn't the difference that most of those continental managers earn their stripes on the training pitch first.  Managing youth teams or assisting other managers.  Learning their trade.

 

The likes of Hughes, Bruce, Pardew and Souness walk straight into high profile jobs, spending no time off the radar where they can make mistakes, learn from them and come into a top job a more educated manager.  They come into it having only observed management from a players perspective.

 

Moyes earned his stripes taking a club about to be relegated from division 2 up to the playoffs for a place in the Premier league.  He had the respect of players at PNE as a player that had played at the top.  He had the respect of Everton players for what he did at PNE.  He'll have the respect of man U players for what he did at Everton.

 

There's nothing a Newcastle player can respect about Pardew at all.

 

I think you're spot on there.  Ferguson had his time at Aberdeen, Moyes at Preston, Wenger managed over in Japan for a while as I remember.  Even O'Neill (as shit as he was in his later years, he was decent when he was younger) did his time at Wycombe and Leicester.

 

Aye, there's nowt to say that a manager will be any good at the very top level, even if he does spend years learning the job before he accepts a big offer, that takes something special.  But he's much more likely to succeed if he HAS been learning the job.  Mourinho wasn't onyour list either...learned from the best

 

I'd be interested to listen to someone more knowledgable than me about the penchant for appointing past players with no manegerial experience straight into a management role with tens of millions of pounds at stake.  Is it a recent development?  First I can think of is Dalglish at Liverpool.  I always thought he was con artist, whether inheriting the greatest team in English football to win trophys there or inheriting all the money he wanted to do it at Blackburn.

[loki679]

He's gone!

 

If this isn't true Ikon needs to be sent to a sunderland strip club with his eyelids glued open as punishment.

[Dr Venkman]

Or more than likely be ignored, just as I was when I pulled him up on his 'Shola's our best option from the bench' rubbish.

Didnt you suggest Anita as an alternative?

 

 

I thought HF's point was just that we dont have a striker on the bench of a better quality than Shola, hence pointing to squad depth. Shola seems to come on in response to us playing it long, not the other way round. If that is the case then bringing on Anita would be odd.

 

If that was point then why did he say 'Stoke sent Shola back 5 years ago....and he's still our best threat from the bench.'?

 

He's clearly not our best threat. I said 'even Anita' in an advanced position would be more of a threat, even discounting the other options. This notion that Shola comes on to make the best of the long ball game our players have taken it upon themselves to play is just nonsense. Remember when we were lucky enough to hear Pardew on the side line at Anfield last season? 'Hit Ba, Hit Ba!'. That's just one example.

 

 

As for your point about how wonderful the arguments have been on here, surely the end of the season, with all the stats, facts and figures to hand is a good time to reflect on whatever has been said before?

 

Meh