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Still Not Worthy Of A Thread

joeyt

by joeyt
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Astroblack

Astroblack

Posted
Posted

Question for the posters on here: Do you guys like Match of the Day? Here, in NYC, we don't get the best football analysis so I've been watching some MOTD streams online. There's a night and day difference between the two, but when I see you guys talking about it, you're always slagging it off. Why is that?

 

I don't like Robbie Savage, though. He can fuck off. He doesn't belong there.

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Interpolic

Interpolic

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Posted

Match Of The Day's a canny bloody good programme on the whole, but the analysis does vary wildly depending on the pundit.  I'm not even that fussed about the analysis as I don't always pay that much attention to it, it's a slick and well made programme and also Gary Lineker is absolutely superb. 

 

Shame they couldn't just have it presented by 2 Gary Linekers.

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Astroblack

Astroblack

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I think you guys have been spoiled. If you saw the analysis here, you'd be sick and would genuinely miss it. We've got a band of losers like Eric Wynalda who hasn't accomplished a thing in football. For Premier league coverage, we have Robbie Mustoe and Robbie Earl who just agree with each other. There's no confrontation or debate like with Neville and Carragher.

 

The PL coverage is also very simple and insulting to the intelligence of even the newest football fan.

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triggs

triggs

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Posted

I genuinely don't understand why anybody watches the football analysis rather than just watching on delay and fastforwarding to the highlights.

I do this too. No point listening to analysts' opinions when most likely they've only seen the highlights you have

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Interpolic

Interpolic

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Posted

It's all toss though. I watch enough football as it is without watching people talk about it as well.

 

This is what I mean tbh, I tend to mentally switch off during the analysis unless I'm keen to see certain incidents again.

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Chicane

Chicane

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Posted

Hadron ColEidur Gudjohnsen is brilliant  :lol:

 

Might be mentioned elsewhere but there is a good article in The Blizzard this month from George Caulkin on Newcastle and Mike Ashley (as well as some others about football in the North-East)

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Tiresias

Tiresias

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http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2014/dec/13/manchester-united-fans-roma-violence-2007

 

At least these days the Stadio Olimpico no longer has such a sinister edge. Manchester City’s game in Rome on Wednesday passed without bloodshed. Their supporters, if they knew the history of the place, kept their wits about them crossing Ponte Pietro Nenni, and the carabinieri, in full riot gear, gave the impression they were not the types to approach for directions. Yet the sense of danger was certainly less pronounced than the occasion, almost eight years ago, when more than 70 supporters of Manchester United learned the hard way what it can be like.

 

Eighteen had been set upon outside by ultras, 10 of those suffered from stab wounds, and another 50-plus had to be bandaged up and repaired after unforgivable moments when the police embarked on what has been described as an “unprovoked military-style attack”. Their batons hit pretty much everything that moved and, leaving the stadium after a more serene occasion on Wednesday, a few of us journalists found ourselves reminiscing about that revealing little scene once the place had cleared back in April 2007.

 

The carabinieri that night were having their debrief in the same part of the bus park and we could see them embracing and high-fiving. One guy, sweaty and breathless, with his helmet tucked under his arm, was swishing his baton through the air, re-enacting his best shots. His colleagues were laughing and clapping – celebrating, it seemed.

 

Their attacks were so indiscriminate and savagely over the top that the Independent Manchester United Supporters’ Association (Imusa) has been pursuing legal action against Italy’s paramilitary police. The case, using television and amateur footage, states that many of those hitting out had covered their faces and removed identification badges. Supporters with nowhere to escape to can be seen in a blind state of panic. One guy, in his 50s, is curled up in the foetal position, pleading for mercy under a flurry of baton strikes.

 

Other images show riot sticks apparently being used the wrong way round, heavy handle first, in a way that seems premeditated to cause maximum damage. In the most shocking footage a woman in her early-20s is filming with her camera until a policeman snatches it and his colleagues wade in. Three hit her in the face. A fourth strikes her with his truncheon. She disappears and the legal documents filed by Imusa state that is her being flung down a stairwell.

 

Whatever your club allegiances, they are scenes that should appal any fan, especially those who follow their team abroad and understand the risks that accompany going to certain countries.

 

Yet it is not just Rome’s police who should be ashamed. United promised at the time they would do everything to help the fans who suffered the worst of the carabinieri’s “serious over‑reaction”. They put out a statement of condemnation and said they would be happy to forward fan accounts to the Home Office. And since then? “Imusa has had no assistance at all from Manchester United and they have not offered to help the affected fans,” according to Colin Hendrie, its vice-chairman. “Indeed, they have met us only once in the nine years since the Glazer takeover.”

 

United are well aware of Imusa’s work; they have just chosen to look the other way. The reason is simple. When the Glazer family set about buying the club in 2005, the chief executive then, David Gill, did everything he could to block the takeover, describing it as “unworkable”, as well as that now infamous quote that “debt is the road to ruin”. Then it became obvious that the Glazers had the financial clout to get their way and Gill made a hasty retreat, welcoming them with open arms, gushing about how excited he was to work with such interesting people – and Long Live America!

 

Imusa, dismayed by his volte-face, continued to argue the deal would eventually explode in United’s face. Gill broke off contact, turfed the group off the club’s fan forum and announced United would not deal with it again. Imusa has tried several times to reopen lines of communication, pointing out it was a single disagreement when there are numerous other issues that would benefit from the club working with its most prominent supporters’ organisation. Gill’s response, it says, has been “robust and two-fingered”.

 

Richard Caborn, in his time as sports minister, wrote to United about it. The response, every time, has been the corporate equivalent, to borrow a local phrase, of “do one”. Shame on Gill, still a United director and currently climbing his way to the top of the football ladder as Britain’s candidate for a Fifa vice-presidency. “If Manchester United had worked with Imusa, there is no doubt this matter would have been dealt with swiftly by the Italian courts,” Hendrie tells me. “This was an opportunity for Manchester United to work with Imusa in helping fans who had been attacked. As it is, the club stood to one side.”

 

Ed Woodward, Gill’s successor, is far more approachable and fan-aware and, it must be hoped, might be more open to doing the right thing – unless, that, is, the order has come down from the Glazers themselves. Thankfully there are people who want to help. Michele Vaira, an English-speaking lawyer based in Rome, has worked tirelessly to prevent the civil action being lost to the system. But IMUSA has stretched its budget as far as it can and, frustrated by “unnecessary and deliberate” delays, is now lobbying MPs to put pressure on the Italians at an ambassadorial level (precisely the sort of thing a club with United’s power and contacts might have been able to influence).

 

It is clear as well that many Italians support the legal action and have been appalled to see their police indiscriminately beating foreign visitors. There is a long-running show on Italia 1 called Le lene and, a while back, three of its regulars, Trio Medusa, collared the Rome city official with responsibility for policing the stadium and took him through some hypothetical questions about what would happen if a female tourist was repeatedly struck in the face and the attackers took her camera. The official replied it was unthinkable it could happen in Rome. So they showed him the relevant footage and suggested that, as this could not possibly happen in Rome, perhaps he ought to replace the camera. The official said nothing.

 

The players of Roma did, however, and Trio Medusa went to Old Trafford to hand the woman a new camera loaded with goodwill messages, including Francesco Totti asking her not to be put off from visiting Rome again. “We would like to apologise for the treatment you received and we hope it has not damaged the opinion you and your fellow supporters have of our city,” Totti tells her. “We would also like to invite you back to the Olympic stadium and treat you as our special guest.”

 

It was a lovely touch but it was not really Totti who should be apologising. The spark that night came from Roma fans repeatedly throwing bottles from Curva Nord. A couple were thrown back and the police stormed in – at the away end only. What happened next led to questions all the way to the top of the country, with the former Italian prime minister Giuliano Amato stating: “Without doubt some policemen went too hard and used their batons too easily on fans who were on the floor.”

 

On Wednesday it was very different and much more relaxed, so maybe there has been a change in the policing. But there has never been an apology and the Sistine Chapel could have been repainted several times over in the time it has taken for the Italian legal system to hear this case.

 

United, meanwhile, point out that they did contact the Home Office and they believe this has indirectly led to the stadium being a safer place. The club then “took the view we had done all we could”.

 

As for the woman who went to see her football team in the Eternal City and took a beating from the local police, she is Carly Lyes from Rusholme (though not a ruffian, if you know the old Smiths song) and, when United did eventually get in contact, it was not in the circumstances you might imagine. In 2010, during protests about the club’s ownership, she lifted one of those banners that were popular at the time, saying “Love United, Hate Glazer”. She was thrown out and the club allege she was “disorderly”. Carly has been banned from Old Trafford for life.

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