TRon Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 As mentioned, we also lost to Graham Westley's Stevenage. That doesn't mean I think he is a good manager. What makes you think anyone's a good manager? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 As mentioned, we also lost to Graham Westley's Stevenage. That doesn't mean I think he is a good manager. What makes you think anyone's a good manager? Pardew beat Hiddink, Hiddink is a class manager. Pardew is a better than class manager Pardew also won manager of the season which is based on more than 2 games. Come to think of it, why are we all angry at Pardew? He's class! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ameritoon Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 Poyet brought a League One team into the Championship and made them instantly competitive while playing decent stuff, it's not surprising he's thought of well. He never gave them the final push though, and Sunderland are shit, so I can't expect much. January will be big for them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGuv Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 What separates Poyet from every other decent Championship manager? Serious question. Just seems like being an ex fairly high profile footballer who is still young gives them a bump up the ladder. Poyet beat us twice in the cup but Graham Westley managed it once at a club two divisions below. When we played Brighton I was impressed they could string more than 2 passes together but that was more to do with the fact we couldn't than them playing any real quality football. Is he any better than the likes of Mick McCarthy, Nigel Pearson, Paul Ince, Brian McDermott etc.. or is he just more fashionable? Yep. Funny how if you get a team out of the Championship then go back down, your name becomes mud whilst someone like Poyet who has languished in Championship mid-table for a few years now (one play off semi, hmm great) has had a growing reputation. If he hadn't played for Chelsea and Spurs, nobody would be in the slightest bit interested in him. Compare to Nigel Clough who's in keeping Derby dully mid table consistently over a few years while bringing through some kids at the same time as rather large reduction in whats available for him to spend I'd say is better than Poyets ones at Brighton because of the difference in budget but if any premier league side let alone Sunderland (from our POV) appointed Clough they'd be a laughing stock. Yup. He had a decent budget at Brighton did Gus. Clough on the other hand did more or less the same job but with no budget and he tried to bleed in new players at a struggling club Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 As mentioned, we also lost to Graham Westley's Stevenage. That doesn't mean I think he is a good manager. What makes you think anyone's a good manager? Pardew beat Hiddink, Hiddink is a class manager. Pardew is a better than class manager Pardew also won manager of the season which is based on more than 2 games. Come to think of it, why are we all angry at Pardew? He's class! All hail Ashley and his recruiting wisdom then Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 What separates Poyet from every other decent Championship manager? Serious question. Just seems like being an ex fairly high profile footballer who is still young gives them a bump up the ladder. Poyet beat us twice in the cup but Graham Westley managed it once at a club two divisions below. When we played Brighton I was impressed they could string more than 2 passes together but that was more to do with the fact we couldn't than them playing any real quality football. Is he any better than the likes of Mick McCarthy, Nigel Pearson, Paul Ince, Brian McDermott etc.. or is he just more fashionable? Yep. Funny how if you get a team out of the Championship then go back down, your name becomes mud whilst someone like Poyet who has languished in Championship mid-table for a few years now (one play off semi, hmm great) has had a growing reputation. If he hadn't played for Chelsea and Spurs, nobody would be in the slightest bit interested in him. Compare to Nigel Clough who's in keeping Derby dully mid table consistently over a few years while bringing through some kids at the same time as rather large reduction in whats available for him to spend I'd say is better than Poyets ones at Brighton because of the difference in budget but if any premier league side let alone Sunderland (from our POV) appointed Clough they'd be a laughing stock. Yup. He had a decent budget at Brighton did Gus. Clough on the other hand did more or less the same job but with no budget and he tried to bleed in new players at a struggling club Post it in the "Who would you go for" thread. It's making me physically sick to have to discuss managers in a Sunderland thread following recent developments. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 Poyet brought a League One team into the Championship and made them instantly competitive while playing decent stuff, it's not surprising he's thought of well. He never gave them the final push though, and Sunderland are shit, so I can't expect much. January will be big for them. Paul Lambert and Nigel Adkins both went from League One to the Premier League in the space of one season. It's really not that much of an achievement to come into the Championship and "be competitive", the margins below the Premier League are much greater. Think of the managers who have actually gotten teams out of the Championship during the same time period: Warnock, Holloway, McDermott, Adkins, Bruce. In the few years preceding that it's been Brown, Dowie, McCarthy, Boothroyd. These are the blokes who have outdone him and he's been in that division a few years now, enough time for a proper crack at promotion and not got near it. Maybe he'll prove a good Premier League manager but his reputation is built on absolutely fuck all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 Poyet brought a League One team into the Championship and made them instantly competitive while playing decent stuff, it's not surprising he's thought of well. He never gave them the final push though, and Sunderland are shit, so I can't expect much. January will be big for them. He was given a blank cheque book for his 12 months there. This season they were threatened with sanctions with the new FFP rules for the Championship. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan_Taylor Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 Where did the idea that if a manager beats anther manager then he must be better come from? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 What separates Poyet from every other decent Championship manager? Serious question. Just seems like being an ex fairly high profile footballer who is still young gives them a bump up the ladder. Poyet beat us twice in the cup but Graham Westley managed it once at a club two divisions below. When we played Brighton I was impressed they could string more than 2 passes together but that was more to do with the fact we couldn't than them playing any real quality football. Is he any better than the likes of Mick McCarthy, Nigel Pearson, Paul Ince, Brian McDermott etc.. or is he just more fashionable? Think he's quite good but time will tell, the PL is a whole new ballgame. I suspect tactically he's probably better than Pardew and can get sides to play football but as a man manager and the million other things you need to make it in the PL the jury will be out for quite some time....It's annoying cause they'll stay up under him. His biggest hurdle will be the very average squad... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 Where did the idea that if a manager beats anther manager then he must be better come from? Nowhere but what else can his performance be judged on other than comparisons against those in the same competition? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 I've got a horrible feeling that he might do well, that's based on nothing other than him pissing on us so many times, it's bound to happen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 Poyet brought a League One team into the Championship and made them instantly competitive while playing decent stuff, it's not surprising he's thought of well. He never gave them the final push though, and Sunderland are shit, so I can't expect much. January will be big for them. Paul Lambert and Nigel Adkins both went from League One to the Premier League in the space of one season. It's really not that much of an achievement to come into the Championship and "be competitive", the margins below the Premier League are much greater. Think of the managers who have actually gotten teams out of the Championship during the same time period: Warnock, Holloway, McDermott, Adkins, Bruce. In the few years preceding that it's been Brown, Dowie, McCarthy, Boothroyd. These are the blokes who have outdone him and he's been in that division a few years now, enough time for a proper crack at promotion and not got near it. Maybe he'll prove a good Premier League manager but his reputation is built on absolutely fuck all. It's about the football which suits a higher level at the end of the day. That's all I based my opinion. Not whether he's a foreigner, or ugly, or shits on the floor in dressing rooms. I'm sure all these things might be factors to consider somewhere down the line, but stats have never made much impression on me. I thought his team looked far more organised than Pardew's on the two occasions we played them. That suggests to me he is better than Pardew. That fucking pisses me off. That's really all there is to it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 In my mind there is no question he is tactically better than Pardew. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 In my mind there is no question he is tactically better than Pardew. I'm not convinced he's a PDC style cunt either though. That seems to be what we are basing our criticisms on. But the Brighton forums seem to view him quite positively, and in the two games against us, his teams seemed far more motivated than ours did under Pardew. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deuce Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 Poyet is likely an improvement over Di Canio in all facets. Is he good enough to save a very poor team from relegation? I'm skeptical. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 In my mind there is no question he is tactically better than Pardew. I'm not convinced he's a PDC style cunt either though. That seems to be what we are basing our criticisms on. But the Brighton forums seem to view him quite positively, and in the two games against us, his teams seemed far more motivated than ours did under Pardew. Think he's far more dangerous than PDC...Generally his past players seem to have really liked him...If he gets time and can get 2/3 players in Jan then they'll be ok. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 Poyet is likely an improvement over Di Canio in all facets. Is he good enough to save a very poor team from relegation? I'm skeptical. Agreed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 Poyet is likely an improvement over Di Canio in all facets. Is he good enough to save a very poor team from relegation? I'm skeptical. That's our best bet really. That he's inherited such a pile of shite that he won't have time to turn it around. Compare that with Pards who as usual is managing to get worse every season he's in charge despite being handed better players to work with at every level. It's not like he hasn't shown the same failure at every previous club like West Ham and Southampton either. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 In my mind there is no question he is tactically better than Pardew. I'm not convinced he's a PDC style cunt either though. That seems to be what we are basing our criticisms on. But the Brighton forums seem to view him quite positively, and in the two games against us, his teams seemed far more motivated than ours did under Pardew. Devils advocate but aren't the minnows always likely to be 'more up for it'? As I said earlier, Brighton could string passes together which was enough to impress me but Sunderland could appoint literally anyone (say Paolo Di Canio for example) and some will instantly be doom and gloom claiming he is a good manager/have a feeling he will be a success based on very little. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 In my mind there is no question he is tactically better than Pardew. I'm not convinced he's a PDC style cunt either though. That seems to be what we are basing our criticisms on. But the Brighton forums seem to view him quite positively, and in the two games against us, his teams seemed far more motivated than ours did under Pardew. Devils advocate but aren't the minnows always likely to be 'more up for it'? As I said earlier, Brighton could string passes together which was enough to impress me but Sunderland could appoint literally anyone (say Paolo Di Canio for example) and some will instantly be doom and gloom claiming he is a good manager/have a feeling he will be a success based on very little. I can't speak for anyone else, but I created a thread about Poyet after last season's cup defeat based purely on the qualities I saw in his side. Most of the objections in that thread were based on him being a cunt due to scoring goals against us and being associated with Dennis Wise. If you dug a little deeper fans might have discovered he was generally considered to be the brains behind Leeds success while he was there with Wise. I think you'll find he's far higher rated inside the game than either Pardew or Kinnear these days. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 Be interesting to see how much coin they give him in Jan. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 In my mind there is no question he is tactically better than Pardew. I'm not convinced he's a PDC style cunt either though. That seems to be what we are basing our criticisms on. But the Brighton forums seem to view him quite positively, and in the two games against us, his teams seemed far more motivated than ours did under Pardew. Devils advocate but aren't the minnows always likely to be 'more up for it'? As I said earlier, Brighton could string passes together which was enough to impress me but Sunderland could appoint literally anyone (say Paolo Di Canio for example) and some will instantly be doom and gloom claiming he is a good manager/have a feeling he will be a success based on very little. I can't speak for anyone else, but I created a thread about Poyet after last season's cup defeat based purely on the qualities I saw in his side. Most of the objections in that thread were based on him being a cunt due to scoring goals against us and being associated with Dennis Wise. If you dug a little deeper fans might have discovered he was generally considered to be the brains behind Leeds success while he was there with Wise. I think you'll find he's far higher rated inside the game than either Pardew or Kinnear these days. Leeds who got relegated under Wise, is this? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 Be interesting to see how much coin they give him in Jan. It will be even more interesting to see what he does with the players he's got right now. The mark of a good manager is to make the best use of the players at your disposal. The general consensus is he's got an awful squad to work with until January. I think he'll keep them up personally. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts