Flip Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 I don't like saying this because I'm as big a Messi fan as anyone, but he's not even in the top 2 best players in the world this season. Which, for Messi, has to be regarded as a big drop off in form. And yes, I know we're still talking generally about exceptionally high standards. This season? Or this year? Because in the last 15 game he was fit last season he scored in 14 games in the La Liga scoring a total of 19goals. In this season he's reached 8 already + 4 in two in the CL. He's been injured a lot, but individually he is still easily the best player in the world. Then you have to argue whether Ribery deserves it more for having won more things, but individually he's still a level above the rest. He's still the best footballer in the world. But this season, Ronaldo and Ibrahimovic have shown more world-class quality than Messi. I don't think that's especially debatable IMO. Ibrahimovic? Ronaldo? What? Both Messi and Ribery are levels ahead of both this season. What has Ronaldo done more than Messi? Neil you know better than this. They've been worse to watch ever since Guardiola left despite the improved league record. Sloppier in possession, slower intensity off the ball and more direct. This season they play so many longer direct balls, quicker passes on the transitions and greater emphasis on switching the ball wide particularly in getting Neymar in possession as often as possible. No surprise to see Sanchez thriving more in the current style of play. Understandable they'd want to address the issue of relying on Messi for both goals and playmaking but I don't think they're particularly great at the moment personally. I thought they were a poorer outfit for pretty much the entirety of last season despite winning every week and that came to a head in every big Clasico and then against Bayern in the semis. Neymar and Messi need to be in tandem in this team when the knockout rounds come round and it's not really happening in the current set-up with Neymar going at full-backs over and over again and Messi playing deeper and frequently wider on the other side. Maybe Cruyff will be proven right about having Neymar and Messi in the same team. I don't necessarily disagree, but they're under a new manager with some players getting older and their best player injured quite a lot. Anything other than thinking they've been excellent considering the circumstances is ridiculous. Look at Real, they're nowhere near their level at the moment and got outplayed for 50-60minutes just a week ago. I think Neymar and Messi will shine soon enough if both can be fit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 Not sure what the craic is with where Martino is playing Messi at the moment. He's playing wherever he's always played. Messi has only himself to blame at the minute, you can see that he's unhappy even when winning since he's not scoring. Really selfish. Messi does seem like a bit of a c***. He basically forced out Zlatan and Villa and is by all accounts a prick to his teammates. Yeah because Ibrahimovic has such a great track record of not being a confrontational personality and frequently moving clubs, only when he was confronted with a villain like Messi Villa wasn't forced out. He just got a significant leg break and sadly went from being a world class forward to a just a pretty good one. Zlatan was forced out because Messi couldn't accept playing on the wing. This is something Guardiola says in his own book. Think that's something Zlatan wrote in his book. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
triggs Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 Not sure what the craic is with where Martino is playing Messi at the moment. Sorry, meant to say Balague's book about Guardiola He's playing wherever he's always played. Messi has only himself to blame at the minute, you can see that he's unhappy even when winning since he's not scoring. Really selfish. Messi does seem like a bit of a c***. He basically forced out Zlatan and Villa and is by all accounts a prick to his teammates. Yeah because Ibrahimovic has such a great track record of not being a confrontational personality and frequently moving clubs, only when he was confronted with a villain like Messi Villa wasn't forced out. He just got a significant leg break and sadly went from being a world class forward to a just a pretty good one. Zlatan was forced out because Messi couldn't accept playing on the wing. This is something Guardiola says in his own book. Guardiola hasn't wrote a book Sorry meant to say Balague's biography of Guardiola Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 Not sure what the craic is with where Martino is playing Messi at the moment. Sorry, meant to say Balague's book about Guardiola He's playing wherever he's always played. Messi has only himself to blame at the minute, you can see that he's unhappy even when winning since he's not scoring. Really selfish. Messi does seem like a bit of a c***. He basically forced out Zlatan and Villa and is by all accounts a prick to his teammates. Yeah because Ibrahimovic has such a great track record of not being a confrontational personality and frequently moving clubs, only when he was confronted with a villain like Messi Villa wasn't forced out. He just got a significant leg break and sadly went from being a world class forward to a just a pretty good one. Zlatan was forced out because Messi couldn't accept playing on the wing. This is something Guardiola says in his own book. Guardiola hasn't wrote a book Sorry meant to say Balague's biography of Guardiola Have you read the book? Pretty sure those quotes were from a garbage made up article in Bild. Even if they are in Ballague's book it hardly means they're true. He has made a career out of promoting lies and half-truths. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 Not sure what the craic is with where Martino is playing Messi at the moment. Sorry, meant to say Balague's book about Guardiola He's playing wherever he's always played. Messi has only himself to blame at the minute, you can see that he's unhappy even when winning since he's not scoring. Really selfish. Messi does seem like a bit of a c***. He basically forced out Zlatan and Villa and is by all accounts a prick to his teammates. Yeah because Ibrahimovic has such a great track record of not being a confrontational personality and frequently moving clubs, only when he was confronted with a villain like Messi Villa wasn't forced out. He just got a significant leg break and sadly went from being a world class forward to a just a pretty good one. Zlatan was forced out because Messi couldn't accept playing on the wing. This is something Guardiola says in his own book. Guardiola hasn't wrote a book Sorry meant to say Balague's biography of Guardiola Have you read the book? Pretty sure those quotes were from a garbage made up article in Bild. ? This is something Ibrahimovic has said himself. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 I don't like saying this because I'm as big a Messi fan as anyone, but he's not even in the top 2 best players in the world this season. Which, for Messi, has to be regarded as a big drop off in form. And yes, I know we're still talking generally about exceptionally high standards. This season? Or this year? Because in the last 15 game he was fit last season he scored in 14 games in the La Liga scoring a total of 19goals. In this season he's reached 8 already + 4 in two in the CL. He's been injured a lot, but individually he is still easily the best player in the world. Then you have to argue whether Ribery deserves it more for having won more things, but individually he's still a level above the rest. He's still the best footballer in the world. But this season, Ronaldo and Ibrahimovic have shown more world-class quality than Messi. I don't think that's especially debatable IMO. Ibrahimovic? Ronaldo? What? Both Messi and Ribery are levels ahead of both this season. What has Ronaldo done more than Messi? Neil you know better than this. Looked hungrier. Scored more goals. Produced more eye-catching displays. Messi is without doubt not "levels ahead" of Ronaldo this year, I've no idea where you've got that from. We need to isolate Messi's general brilliance with this season. We're talking about ludicrously high standards, yes, but for me Ronaldo has quite simply produced more this season. I think there's a general reluctance, due to Messi's utterly insane superiority over the past few seasons, to ever dare to discuss anyone else being better than him over a given period of time. Each to their own, but for me, there is absolutely no way Messi has been the best player in the world this season. No chance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Village Idiot Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 Zlatan has changed his version regarding Messi more often than I change socks though. Messi bothers me; I like the chorality that Martino has achieved with people like Pedro, Alexis, Neymar coming forward, but we need to get Messi involved and somehow isn't happening and he doesn't look comfortable at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
triggs Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 I did read the book. Balague says something like, When Zlatan was playing well in first few months at Barca, Messi spoke with Guardiola and said either he played through the middle or he didn’t play at all. Guardiola said What do I do with Ibrahimovic? Messi said something like stick the others on the wing As you say Zlatan isn't the most reliable on these things but he said something similar. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 Not sure what the craic is with where Martino is playing Messi at the moment. Sorry, meant to say Balague's book about Guardiola He's playing wherever he's always played. Messi has only himself to blame at the minute, you can see that he's unhappy even when winning since he's not scoring. Really selfish. Messi does seem like a bit of a c***. He basically forced out Zlatan and Villa and is by all accounts a prick to his teammates. Yeah because Ibrahimovic has such a great track record of not being a confrontational personality and frequently moving clubs, only when he was confronted with a villain like Messi Villa wasn't forced out. He just got a significant leg break and sadly went from being a world class forward to a just a pretty good one. Zlatan was forced out because Messi couldn't accept playing on the wing. This is something Guardiola says in his own book. Guardiola hasn't wrote a book Sorry meant to say Balague's biography of Guardiola Have you read the book? Pretty sure those quotes were from a garbage made up article in Bild. ? This is something Ibrahimovic has said himself. Ibrahimovic saying it is different to Guardiola saying it, no? Ibrahimovic slags off the entire mentality collective mentality of the Barca team, refers to Xavi and Iniesta as schoolboys and calls Guardiola a gutless coward in his book. Ibrahimovic played himself out of the team at Barcelona. I'm as big a supporter of Zlatan as anybody but that was the poorest spell of his career and they were worse that season with him upfront than they were with Eto'o the year earlier and with Villa the following season. That game against Zaragoza where Messi was playing on the wing and tore them to shreds Zlatan was comically poor, Messi gave him a penalty he won out of almost sympathy. He was dropped to accomodate Messi upfront because it was simply idiotic for Guardiola to do otherwise based on his and Messi's form. Ibrahimovic didn't work out at Barcelona and its not exclusively Messi's fault that it happened. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Froggy Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 I don't like saying this because I'm as big a Messi fan as anyone, but he's not even in the top 2 best players in the world this season. Which, for Messi, has to be regarded as a big drop off in form. And yes, I know we're still talking generally about exceptionally high standards. This season? Or this year? Because in the last 15 game he was fit last season he scored in 14 games in the La Liga scoring a total of 19goals. In this season he's reached 8 already + 4 in two in the CL. He's been injured a lot, but individually he is still easily the best player in the world. Then you have to argue whether Ribery deserves it more for having won more things, but individually he's still a level above the rest. He's still the best footballer in the world. But this season, Ronaldo and Ibrahimovic have shown more world-class quality than Messi. I don't think that's especially debatable IMO. Ibrahimovic? Ronaldo? What? Both Messi and Ribery are levels ahead of both this season. What has Ronaldo done more than Messi? Neil you know better than this. Looked hungrier. Scored more goals. Produced more eye-catching displays. Messi is without doubt not "levels ahead" of Ronaldo this year, I've no idea where you've got that from. We need to isolate Messi's general brilliance with this season. We're talking about ludicrously high standards, yes, but for me Ronaldo has quite simply produced more this season. I think there's a general reluctance, due to Messi's utterly insane superiority over the past few seasons, to ever dare to discuss anyone else being better than him over a given period of time. Each to their own, but for me, there is absolutely no way Messi has been the best player in the world this season. No chance. I would say Ibrahimovic and Ronaldo have both been better than Messi this season. There's plenty of time for that to change of course, but I'd be delighted to see Ronaldo win the Ballon d'Or again in the next year or two. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikon Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 Ibra has been the best player in the world so far this season imo. Biased swede, but i really think he has. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 Ibra has been the best player in the world so far this season imo. Biased swede, but i really think he has. I don't agree. His PSG have drawn way too many games and he's been invisible for way too many games to be considered even a top 5 player. Take away Suarez suspension and he's been a better player. Cavani is having his way with Ligue 1 defenders whenever he gets a chance. 9 goals and for me he is a better player than Ibra as well. Ibra is a spectacular player and therefore gets way more credit than he deserves. He's a top 5 striker in the world, but the best player in the world? As for Ronaldo I like him as a player, but he's not even been the best in his league this season. Diego Costa has been far more impressive than him. If we are going purely by this season Messi has scored as many goals as Ronaldo excluding penalties and his team is top of the league. (remember that Messi has played over 250minutes less than Ronaldo in the La Liga this season) Also if anything this must come down to Messi or Ribery. It's over the whole of 2013 and both have been the best players. In my opinion anyways. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ste Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 Anyone see Leicester's first goal? Clearance from Almunia struck Chris Wood in the face as went in. Hilarious viewing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdckelly Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 panic among the english press Joe Hart dropped Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaizero Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 Begovic scores from a GK Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ritchie Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 Stoke 'keeper scores in twelve seconds. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 Begovic lol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tachikoma Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 Fuck, have Boruc on my fantasy prem Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 Good, hope Southampton lose today and start dropping.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 f***, have Boruc on my fantasy prem Me too, but how the fuck did this happen? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 Begovic Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tachikoma Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 f***, have Boruc on my fantasy prem Me too, but how the fuck did this happen? Its the funniest thing I've seen in football for ages, won't spoil it for you Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deuce Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 Clean sheet for Boruc and Lovren gone in the first 30 seconds. I'm fucked for FF this week. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nemtizz Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 Clean sheet for Boruc and Lovren gone in the first 30 seconds. I'm f***ed for FF this week. Ditto. Subbed Boruc in for Mignolet too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest palnese Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 1-0 Man Utd. Valencia Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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