2014 FIFA World Cup Brasil™ - Europe vs. America

[Trumpet]

I think African sides, barring Ghana, are being extremely over-rated in eyes of the public.

 

All of them, bar Ghana, have been irrelevant in world cup stage for almost 2 decades now. Cameroon especially, I really don't get the hype around them. must be Eto'o, but they were for me the worst team in South Africa. Nigeria seem to have bounced back after a bad spell, but it can go either way for them.

Ivory Coast are the most over-rated of the lot. A lot of stars and hype around them, but nothing to show for their golden generation. England of Africa. Was a shocking miss away from elimination.

 

I think Ecuador should be higher on the list as well. In fact, I think any team already in South America stands a great advantage over teams of other continents.

 

I'm willing to bet Asian teams will do a lot better than African ones this world cup.

[Mike]

We're clearly worse than Japan

 

We're clearly worse than Japan

 

We're clearly worse than Japan

 

oldtype spat as he typed this.

 

Their third vs Belgium was shit hot, tbf.

[Deuce]

I think African sides, barring Ghana, are being extremely over-rated in eyes of the public.

 

All of them, bar Ghana, have been irrelevant in world cup stage for almost 2 decades now. Cameroon especially, I really don't get the hype around them. must be Eto'o, but they were for me the worst team in South Africa. Nigeria seem to have bounced back after a bad spell, but it can go either way for them.

Ivory Coast are the most over-rated of the lot. A lot of stars and hype around them, but nothing to show for their golden generation. England of Africa. Was a shocking miss away from elimination.

 

I think Ecuador should be higher on the list as well. In fact, I think any team already in South America stands a great advantage over teams of other continents.

 

I'm willing to bet Asian teams will do a lot better than African ones this world cup.

 

I'm not sure that African sides are necessarily overrated. I've not heard anyone come out and say "Whew, watch out for the CAF teams!"

 

I think they're rated about where are they realistically. Teams with talent that just can't seem to put it all together in the finals.

 

[Segun Oluwaniyi]

I think African sides, barring Ghana, are being extremely over-rated in eyes of the public.

 

All of them, bar Ghana, have been irrelevant in world cup stage for almost 2 decades now. Cameroon especially, I really don't get the hype around them. must be Eto'o, but they were for me the worst team in South Africa. Nigeria seem to have bounced back after a bad spell, but it can go either way for them.

Ivory Coast are the most over-rated of the lot. A lot of stars and hype around them, but nothing to show for their golden generation. England of Africa. Was a shocking miss away from elimination.

 

I think Ecuador should be higher on the list as well. In fact, I think any team already in South America stands a great advantage over teams of other continents.

 

I'm willing to bet Asian teams will do a lot better than African ones this world cup.

Twenty years is nearly the entirety of the African presence on the world stage, so that comment either makes no sense or is irrelevant. Why barring Ghana? Because of close victories over the United States for two tournaments? In their two group stage exits Ivory Coast have collected 0 points from Brazil, Argentina, and Holland, 1 point from Portugal, and 6 points from Serbia and North Korea. Not exactly informative results. Even Nigeria, we lost to Argentina 1-0 in the first matches of our last tournaments, took the lead in the second, had things go pearshaped and it was done. WC is quick, luck and draw matters a lot for all middling teams.

 

I back Japan (none of the other Asian sides, though) to be very competitive in Brazil, but I also back CIV, Nigeria, and Ghana. Algeria and Cameroon are less likely, just because the talent isn't as strong.

[ponsaelius]

Their third vs Belgium was shit hot, tbf.

 

They're pretty good tbf. Too small though innit.

[The College Dropout]

GC is one of the worst posters on the forum and he doesn't even support Newcastle

[Trumpet]

I think African sides, barring Ghana, are being extremely over-rated in eyes of the public.

 

All of them, bar Ghana, have been irrelevant in world cup stage for almost 2 decades now. Cameroon especially, I really don't get the hype around them. must be Eto'o, but they were for me the worst team in South Africa. Nigeria seem to have bounced back after a bad spell, but it can go either way for them.

Ivory Coast are the most over-rated of the lot. A lot of stars and hype around them, but nothing to show for their golden generation. England of Africa. Was a shocking miss away from elimination.

 

I think Ecuador should be higher on the list as well. In fact, I think any team already in South America stands a great advantage over teams of other continents.

 

I'm willing to bet Asian teams will do a lot better than African ones this world cup.

Twenty years is nearly the entirety of the African presence on the world stage, so that comment either makes no sense or is irrelevant. Why barring Ghana? Because of close victories over the United States for two tournaments? In their two group stage exits Ivory Coast have collected 0 points from Brazil, Argentina, and Holland, 1 point from Portugal, and 6 points from Serbia and North Korea. Not exactly informative results. Even Nigeria, we lost to Argentina 1-0 in the first matches of our last two matches, took the lead in the second, had things go pearshaped and it was done. WC is quick, luck matters a lot.

 

I back Japan (none of the other Asian sides, though) to be very competitive in Brazil, but I also back CIV, Nigeria, and Ghana. Algeria and Cameroon are less likely, just because the talent isn't as strong.

 

I agree with Deuce that African teams seem the lack the mentality to make it count when it matters most, and my criticism was more towards almost all African teams being more highly rated than a team like Korea.

 

Ghana have had a lot of great results in their last 2 world cup and not only 2 wins vs. USA. They beat a very good Czech team in Germany, and Serbia's golden generation team in South Africa. Narrowly lost to Germany, and were a Suarez handball away from the Semis. They deserve a lot of respect. And the dominance they showed in absolutely destroying Egypt definitely makes them Africa's best bet to make an impact on the world stage.

 

Nigeria had a weird showing in 2010. They lost their first 2 game narrowly (second one after going a man down), but were still a shocking Yakubu miss away from qualifying to next round. What's gotten me is the dislike and discontent towards Lars Lagerback for Nigeria's performance in 2010. If Nigeria were simply unlucky, why is he getting such a bad reputation for that? Since you're from there, it'd be interesting to hear the Nigerian fan's opinion of 2010 campaign. You guys seem to be a lot better this time around, and as I said, I think you'll have a better showing.

 

Thankfully, this world cup Asia won't have a team who will embarrass the continent (Saudi 8-0, and North Korea 7-0 spring to mind), so I'm just comparing their relative impact compared to those of Africa. I get the vibe that African football gets a lot of more hype than Asian football, and I believe it's due to the fact that more African players play their trade in top European leagues compared to Asians. I think it's a lot closer between the two continents.  As you said though, it depends on the draw. I'd like to see a lot of head-to-head type games between Africa and Asia. In 2010, the record went 1 win for either side and 2 draws.

[ponsaelius]

Africa has produced far better players than Asia

[Trumpet]

Africa has produced far better players than Asia

 

Not disputing that. Being exposed to more European scouting and hence better talent nurturing and well, having less oil money (which keeps a lot of Asian talents spending their careers getting rich instead of trying ambitious moves to Europe to enhance their development) has definitely played a part.

 

Was talking more as units and teams. not individuals.

[Kaizero]

We're clearly worse than Japan but far better than Australia. I doubt anyone writing articles for the Guardian watches any Asian football.

 

Your manager in the qualifiers was a bit of a dick, wasn't he? Going on about how he'd love Uzbekistan to qualify for the World Cup, and he'll crush Iran's dreams and all.

 

Glad he got binned. South Korea is usually a class side with a lot of dignity, and deserves a class manager. Not that clueless clown who was a 96th minute equalizer in Beirut away from sending you guys to play-offs against Uruguay.

 

Uzbekistan would've been awesome to have at the WC. Alexandr Geynrih, FM legend up top for them.

 

Naturally also kinda glad them not being there means I'll probably never get to see him play an actual football game and ruining my FM illusion of him being the Uzbek Messi.

[Flip]

 

Can't wait for the draw now, excitement is over the top. Bring on June.

[Deuce]

Assuming the projected pots hold, what would be the most impressive potential group of death?

[Mike]

Assuming the projected pots hold, what would be the most impressive potential group of death?

 

Have you done the simulator? Took ten minutes to get USA a group they could maybe finish 2nd in.

[WarrenBartonCentrePartin]

Argentina/Colombia

Japan/USA

France

Netherlands/Italy

 

Something like that, I'd imagine.

[Segun Oluwaniyi]

I think African sides, barring Ghana, are being extremely over-rated in eyes of the public.

 

All of them, bar Ghana, have been irrelevant in world cup stage for almost 2 decades now. Cameroon especially, I really don't get the hype around them. must be Eto'o, but they were for me the worst team in South Africa. Nigeria seem to have bounced back after a bad spell, but it can go either way for them.

Ivory Coast are the most over-rated of the lot. A lot of stars and hype around them, but nothing to show for their golden generation. England of Africa. Was a shocking miss away from elimination.

 

I think Ecuador should be higher on the list as well. In fact, I think any team already in South America stands a great advantage over teams of other continents.

 

I'm willing to bet Asian teams will do a lot better than African ones this world cup.

Twenty years is nearly the entirety of the African presence on the world stage, so that comment either makes no sense or is irrelevant. Why barring Ghana? Because of close victories over the United States for two tournaments? In their two group stage exits Ivory Coast have collected 0 points from Brazil, Argentina, and Holland, 1 point from Portugal, and 6 points from Serbia and North Korea. Not exactly informative results. Even Nigeria, we lost to Argentina 1-0 in the first matches of our last two matches, took the lead in the second, had things go pearshaped and it was done. WC is quick, luck matters a lot.

 

I back Japan (none of the other Asian sides, though) to be very competitive in Brazil, but I also back CIV, Nigeria, and Ghana. Algeria and Cameroon are less likely, just because the talent isn't as strong.

 

Ghana have had a lot of great results in their last 2 world cup and not only 2 wins vs. USA. They beat a very good Czech team in Germany, and Serbia's golden generation team in South Africa. Narrowly lost to Germany, and were a Suarez handball away from the Semis. They deserve a lot of respect. And the dominance they showed in absolutely destroying Egypt definitely makes them Africa's best bet to make an impact on the world stage.

 

Nigeria had a weird showing in 2010. They lost their first 2 game narrowly (second one after going a man down), but were still a shocking Yakubu miss away from qualifying to next round. What's gotten me is the dislike and discontent towards Lars Lagerback for Nigeria's performance in 2010. If Nigeria were simply unlucky, why is he getting such a bad reputation for that? Since you're from there, it'd be interesting to hear the Nigerian fan's opinion of 2010 campaign. You guys seem to be a lot better this time around, and as I said, I think you'll have a better showing.

 

Thankfully, this world cup Asia won't have a team who will embarrass the continent (Saudi 8-0, and North Korea 7-0 spring to mind), so I'm just comparing their relative impact compared to those of Africa. I get the vibe that African football gets a lot of more hype than Asian football, and I believe it's due to the fact that more African players play their trade in top European leagues compared to Asians. I think it's a lot closer between the two continents.  As you said though, it depends on the draw. I'd like to see a lot of head-to-head type games between Africa and Asia. In 2010, the record went 1 win for either side and 2 draws.

The 2010 World Cup was an abject failure on and off the pitch. I am serious when I say that it disgusts me to even talk about it. The capitulation against a terrible Greece team was one of the most shameful things I have ever seen. It is not Lagerback's fault. It was the second consecutive WC that they sacked the manager and hired a new one 3 months before the tournament. both times it lead to chaos, and the Swede clearly had no idea what the hell he was doing. Lagerback is hated because he clearly only took the job because he saw naive African money (not his fault, our fault) and then jilted the NFF by email when they offered him another chance. Only, the two keepers, Ideye, Uwa, and Mikel Obi from that squad have been regulars in 2013, and Ideye was only called to 2010 as an injury replacement. (I don't agree with it, but I understand) The team is better, younger, and more athletic this time. I am hopeful.

 

Asia is fine, but there is not much depth on that continent. I think Japan and South Korea are serious teams for the foreseeable future, but who else is there? Teams 3-15 are much stronger in Africa, imo. As I said, I don't see much difference between the big Africa sides, second tier Euro and SA sides, Jap and SK, and Mexico/US. I think it is much of a muchness after the first few teams and a lot will be decided by close matches and bounces of the draw balls.

 

[Deuce]

Assuming the projected pots hold, what would be the most impressive potential group of death?

 

Have you done the simulator? Took ten minutes to get USA a group they could maybe finish 2nd in.

 

Honestly, we're fucked for this one. I'll be shocked if we make it out of the group.

 

Fingers crossed for that Switzerland-Algeria-Greece group.

[Disco]

Assuming the projected pots hold, what would be the most impressive potential group of death?

 

Got to be the France (barring implosion) group almost regardless of who else is in.

 

For me there are 5 teams that can win it and 5 whipping boys.

 

Everyone is going to praying for the Swiss group then Uruguay/Belgian.

[LucaAltieri]

Not even sure why they bother letting the African teams in, tbh. Maybe let 3 of them in and give two spots to more developed footballing nations. Maybe an extra Asian team and another from South America or CONCACAF. Bring the standard up.

[Yorkie]

Not even sure why they bother letting the African teams in, tbh.

 

Said the man from Little Rock.

[Disco]

Not even sure why they bother letting the African teams in, tbh. Maybe let 3 of them in and give two spots to more developed footballing nations. Maybe an extra Asian team and another from South America or CONCACAF. Bring the standard up.

 

Baba's not online.

[Flip]

Not even sure why they bother letting the African teams in, tbh. Maybe let 3 of them in and give two spots to more developed footballing nations. Maybe an extra Asian team and another from South America or CONCACAF. Bring the standard up.

 

[Segun Oluwaniyi]

I don't understand how France ended up as the last ranked European side, tbh. Their record is much more impressive than say, Bosnia (who are ranked above them) during the past four years (which is what FIFA takes into account).

 

 

[Kaizero]

I don't understand how France ended up as the last ranked European side, tbh. Their record is much more impressive than say, Bosnia (who are ranked above them) during the past four years (which is what FIFA takes into account).

 

Here you go:

 

Result                               Points

Win (no penalty shootout) 3

Win (penalty shootout)         2

Draw                                 1

Loss (penalty shootout)         1

Loss (no penalty shootout) 0

 

Match status                                                     Multiplier

Friendly match                                                  x 1.0

FIFA World Cup and Continental cup qualifiers x 2.5

Continental cup and Confederations Cup finals x 3.0

World Cup finals match                                         x 4.0

 

Date of match                      Multiplier

Within the last 12 months × 1.0

12–24 months ago          × 0.5

24–36 months ago                × 0.3

36–48 months ago          × 0.2

 

http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/a/8/0/a80dcdb1abe9d83262888ada834d9530.png

 

http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/3/8/3/383ca0eaacfffad0f9e9ba676b8ce006.png

[Segun Oluwaniyi]

It's not that I actually don't understand how things are calculated. It was a misstatement tbh, the pots just really surprised me. I thought France would have been regarded a lot more highly numerically given their performances over the last few years. It is probably just that these other teams have been picking up consistently good results I hadn't noticed.

[oldtype]

We're clearly worse than Japan but far better than Australia. I doubt anyone writing articles for the Guardian watches any Asian football.

 

Your manager in the qualifiers was a bit of a dick, wasn't he? Going on about how he'd love Uzbekistan to qualify for the World Cup, and he'll crush Iran's dreams and all.

 

Glad he got binned. South Korea is usually a class side with a lot of dignity, and deserves a class manager. Not that clueless clown who was a 96th minute equalizer in Beirut away from sending you guys to play-offs against Uruguay.

 

He's the best Korean manager at club level but that's down to him being a complete dictator. Was never going to have that kind of authority with more accomplished players who had played in Europe so the national team was a bad fit all around.

 

I have much more faith in the new manager.