AyeDubbleYoo Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Hopefully someone will come along soon and reassure me that I didn't just read that. Not the previous post. Thanks Ian. Aye, sorry. Even I don't think last season was anything but appalling. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrettNUFC Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 I'm not just talking just about here. I think other chairmen should take a long hard look at themselves when firing the person they appointed. I wasn't a fan of Steve Clarke and thought it was a poor choice but he got them to 8th, has started slowly this season and is now sacked. Think it's just harsh an wrong. Don't know what the stats are but it seems to be getting worse, like clubs just sacking managers to try and get rid of poor form and get a sudden uplift in the club without giving their appointment time to pull things around. But you were all for Hughton getting binned? Hmm. I didn't want him here from day 1 and was never on side with him and felt we should have upgraded after Championship season. Was happy when we decided to get rid but couldn't believe we failed to upgrade and lost belief in the regime to do so. I think Hughton should be binned at Norwich now but it's their appointment and i respect the board for given him time even though i don't think he's taking them anywhere but down. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Dave, your Hughton argument works both ways though doesn't it? If Hughton was unfairly sacked then surely Pardew deserves time to improve? Unless your argument is just "keep good managers, sack bad ones", then we're back to the question of how long it takes to decide who is good and who is bad. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Hughton had a bad run of 3 games in 5 (beaten at home to Blackburn and beaten 5-1 & 3-1 respectively away to Bolton and WBA) taking us from 5th to 11th. Sacking him under those circumstances was absolutely ridiculous unless we were to bring in a top replacement. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Haris Vuckic Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Pardew is a better manager than Hughton tbh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Hughton had a bad run of 3 games in 5 (beaten at home to Blackburn and beaten 5-1 & 3-1 respectively away to Bolton and WBA) taking us from 5th to 11th. Sacking him under those circumstances was absolutely ridiculous unless we were to bring in a top replacement. I don't disagree, it's hard to argue that there were results-based reasons to sack Hughton. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdckelly Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Ashley never seemed to have faith in Hughton to begin with Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Pardew is a better manager than Hughton tbh. This is based on very little. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Dave, your Hughton argument works both ways though doesn't it? If Hughton was unfairly sacked then surely Pardew deserves time to improve? Unless your argument is just "keep good managers, sack bad ones", then we're back to the question of how long it takes to decide who is good and who is bad. Not my argument, I'm merely pointing out the contradiction. And you could quite easily exchange the first line of Brett's explanation for many people's opinion on Pardew. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Dave, your Hughton argument works both ways though doesn't it? If Hughton was unfairly sacked then surely Pardew deserves time to improve? Unless your argument is just "keep good managers, sack bad ones", then we're back to the question of how long it takes to decide who is good and who is bad. Not my argument, I'm merely pointing out the contradiction. And you could quite easily exchange the first line of Brett's explanation for many people's opinion on Pardew. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lotus Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Pardew is a better manager than Hughton tbh. Pardew's career win % is 42.99, Hughton's is 42.45. Pretty much the same, so say the stats tbh tbh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hughesy Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 I assume that the championship winning season boosts Hughton's stats a fair bit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Pardew has done more in the game as he's been in it a lot longer. But Hughton's record so far is a Championship win with Newcastle, a play-off place with Birmingham (4th), and an 11th place finish with Norwich in the Premiership. It's hardly tragic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 I assume that the championship winning season boosts Hughton's stats a fair bit. Hardly Hughton's fault that Pardew's record in the Championship and League One with several teams is fairly dire. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
merlin Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 If a manager has a bad season, i think he should be given another shot at the following season to turn it around. Don't think one bad season should effectively get you the sack. Admire chairmen who have faith in their appointments and give them time in the job to succeed. Far too often these days they want instant success, or if instant success comes along as surprise but not sustained they are fired, i think it’s just wrong. Are you inviting us to 'admire' Ashley...?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrettNUFC Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 If a manager has a bad season, i think he should be given another shot at the following season to turn it around. Don't think one bad season should effectively get you the sack. Admire chairmen who have faith in their appointments and give them time in the job to succeed. Far too often these days they want instant success, or if instant success comes along as surprise but not sustained they are fired, i think it’s just wrong. Are you inviting us to 'admire' Ashley...?? Boardrooms that standby their appointments i admire. Obviously i'm not saying every chairman should give their appointment 3/4 years, sometimes you might realise pretty quickly you've made a bad decision and hold your hands up, or you sense a chance to upgrade and take the club higher so you get rid. Certain sackings can be justified but the majoirty imo are kneejerk and unjust. In terms of admiring Ashley, certainly not but i'll give him credit for not binning Pardew at the first period of trouble after a good season. He could have easily got rid in the summer or even prior to that and found some other bargain bucket manager who would accept his ways but he stuck by his appointment. People still hold hope Ashley will splash the cash on a top European manager for an upgrade, I however think there isn’t a single hope in hell he would take that much of a gamble. Had the chance when he sacked Hughton and blew it, don’t see why he would suddenly change his ways now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 The last thing I'd give Ashley credit for is not binning Pardew and replacing him with a "bargain bucket manager". It's akin to giving Ariel Castro credit for allowing Amanda Berry to keep his bairn. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrettNUFC Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 The last thing I'd give Ashley credit for is not binning Pardew and replacing him with a "bargain bucket manager". It's akin to giving Ariel Castro credit for allowing Amanda Berry to keep his bairn. It's the fact on the results he had a good excuse to sack him, but he kept faith in him and Pardew is repaying the faith shown with positive results again. He could have easily put Kinnear in charge in the summer or looked for another cheap option to carry out his pretty un-ambitious objective goals instead of Pardew but he was given another chance and there isn't anything wrong with that, if anything it's good to see. One good season, followed by a poor season and he's been given another for the judgement call. At least we aren't chopping and changing soon as things turn sour at the club and have got stability here, something a lot of other clubs lack. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hughesy Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 I assume that the championship winning season boosts Hughton's stats a fair bit. Hardly Hughton's fault that Pardew's record in the Championship and League One with several teams is fairly dire. I think it's fairly clear that the team that Hughton had in the Championship was streets ahead of anything that Pardew managed. Probably more relevant to compare their Premiership managerial records. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 If you want to build something that is sustainable within a budget, then you need patience. Just like what brendan rodgers did in liverpool and moyes in everton. The problem, as many people pointed out, is that we couldnt feel Pardew is building up something longlasting, or is not doing it quick enough. My argument would be, assuming we binned Pardew, we still need to give patience and time for the next manager to build it, even if it is laudrup bielsa or moyes, because we wont spend a furtune and would only do it within budget again. So it would be another 2-3 seasons in mid table. Seriously, ask yourself, are you fine with that? And it is assuming that everything is working out as planned, no major fallout, no serious injuries crisis, no relegation etc. We have had to invest 2 years minimum again. during those 2 years our result would not be much better than now - and probably even worse tbh. It is impossible to just hire a better manager and immediately give you better results without any investment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinmk Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 I assume that the championship winning season boosts Hughton's stats a fair bit. Hardly Hughton's fault that Pardew's record in the Championship and League One with several teams is fairly dire. I think it's fairly clear that the team that Hughton had in the Championship was streets ahead of anything that Pardew managed. Probably more relevant to compare their Premiership managerial records. Also, certainly in recent years the team Pardew has had in the premiership is streets ahead of what Hughton has managed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 I'm not a Hughton hater, but anyone should have won the Championship with the team we had at the time. Compared to rivals, it's much better than what Pardew has now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinmk Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 I'm not a Hughton hater, but anyone should have won the Championship with the team we had at the time. Compared to rivals, it's much better than what Pardew has now. That's not what I said, the side Pardew has had for last couple of years is much stronger than Norwich or the side Hughton had in the prem. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottledDog Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 I'm not a Hughton hater, but anyone should have won the Championship with the team we had at the time. Compared to rivals, it's much better than what Pardew has now. That's not what I said, the side Pardew has had for last couple of years is much stronger than Norwich or the side Hughton had in the prem. That side Hughton had in the Premiership came 5th with considerably less spent on it by Pardew than Hughton has spent on his team. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 I'm not a Hughton hater, but anyone should have won the Championship with the team we had at the time. Compared to rivals, it's much better than what Pardew has now. That's not what I said, the side Pardew has had for last couple of years is much stronger than Norwich or the side Hughton had in the prem. That side Hughton had in the Premiership came 5th with considerably less spent on it by Pardew than Hughton has spent on his team. If you're going down that line of money spent, then Pardew had £50m worth of players sold from him that Hughton had and about half of that outgoing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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