Alan '48 points' Pardew

[LucaAltieri]

Ben Arfa is a match winner, the more match winners you have in your team = more chances of winning games.

 

The only other one we have is Remy.

 

Yes Ben Arfa can be consistent but he's a far better bet on the wing than either Sissoko and Gouffran.

 

I'm not arguing. Personally I'd be playing him too. But I can also see the indiscipline in his playing style and acknowledge that a coach might see him as equally a liability. I'm prepared to give him a skeptical benefit of the doubt over HBA.

[LucaAltieri]

Benefit of what doubt over Ben Arfa?  Frankly I couldn't give a fuck if he rapes Pardews cat and pisses on his car every day.  I don't care what his attitude is off the pitch, I can see with my own eyes that he creates chances when he's on the pitch so he should be starting.

 

He creates chances for us and the opposing team because he isn't very disciplined. Sometimes he'll take the extra few touches and do something magical. Other times he's running down dead ends.

 

I understand why some fans like him playing, but I also understand why a coach might be reluctant to play him.

 

When does he create chance for the other team?  I mean give me examples beyond the amount of times the likes of Gouffran or Tiote or numerous other players give the ball away and create chances for the other team.  Sorry man but its a nonsense, a myth.  As for running down dead ends, at his worst he pushes forward and actually threatens the opposition.  Against Palace he came on and created more chances in 30 minutes than most had all game, three clear cut chances one of which we won the game from.  Against Everton he came on on created our only real chance up till that point and that was 57 minutes in, laid it on a plate for Anita after some great skill and that should have gotten us back into the game.  But nah forget that Pardew subbed him during a game again so the scapegoat can't be trusted, unlike that realiable lad Gouffran who in the same game passed the ball right accross our area and gave Southampton a clear run on goal which they should really have scored from, but he stays on the pitch despite giving it away, doing nothing down the other end and generally being shit, because he's one of Pards good tacklers.

 

Pardew - like most modern, successful managers - likes to defend from the front. Our attacking players have defensive responsibilities forcing errors and limiting the opposition's time on the ball. For all he looks great with the ball at his feet, we have players who are stronger when it comes to hassling the opposition. That's part of why Ba was such a success here and why Shola's continued inclusion is baffling.

 

Again, not saying HBA wouldn't be in my team. Just saying that him not playing every week isn't as criminal as some seem to believe. There are some games I'd want him nowhere near the pitch. Any tight games, like the games against the mackems, for example. He played both and offered nowt of note.

[Teasy]

Yes he's sometimes indisciplined, but what's the point of having 11 disciplined players and no creativity?, this is the Premier League not League One.  Also its not as if we even have 11 disciplined players even with him off the pitch, quite the opposite, what we do have though is no invention and no hope what so ever.

[Disco]

All our games are tight Luca.

[Mattoon]

Oh wow are we still falling for the Pardew propeganda? He's been well and truly Pardewed, he tells his lies so much it becomes the truth, like Teasy said, you show me the % losses of posession and misplaced passes from Ben Arfa and then marry that up with Gouf and Sissoko.

 

He's no more of a liability than any other player on that pitch, he has his Pardew rep and everyone falls for the bullshit, no one notices anyone else lose the ball because that's football and players occasionally lose posession, even the best players in the world. It's just when someone continually berates one player for it they're being watched like a hawk and every error is scrutinised heavily and to a higher degree because you're looking for it.

 

Sick of this shit about Ben Arfa, just more Pardew bullshit alienating our best player and only flair left in the squad. Those that believe this shit, I hope you enjoy next seasons team of "hard working" cloggers.

[Teasy]

Benefit of what doubt over Ben Arfa?  Frankly I couldn't give a fuck if he rapes Pardews cat and pisses on his car every day.  I don't care what his attitude is off the pitch, I can see with my own eyes that he creates chances when he's on the pitch so he should be starting.

 

He creates chances for us and the opposing team because he isn't very disciplined. Sometimes he'll take the extra few touches and do something magical. Other times he's running down dead ends.

 

I understand why some fans like him playing, but I also understand why a coach might be reluctant to play him.

 

When does he create chance for the other team?  I mean give me examples beyond the amount of times the likes of Gouffran or Tiote or numerous other players give the ball away and create chances for the other team.  Sorry man but its a nonsense, a myth.  As for running down dead ends, at his worst he pushes forward and actually threatens the opposition.  Against Palace he came on and created more chances in 30 minutes than most had all game, three clear cut chances one of which we won the game from.  Against Everton he came on on created our only real chance up till that point and that was 57 minutes in, laid it on a plate for Anita after some great skill and that should have gotten us back into the game.  But nah forget that Pardew subbed him during a game again so the scapegoat can't be trusted, unlike that realiable lad Gouffran who in the same game passed the ball right accross our area and gave Southampton a clear run on goal which they should really have scored from, but he stays on the pitch despite giving it away, doing nothing down the other end and generally being shit, because he's one of Pards good tacklers.

 

Pardew - like most modern, successful managers - likes to defend from the front. Our attacking players have defensive responsibilities forcing errors and limiting the opposition's time on the ball. For all he looks great with the ball at his feet, we have players who are stronger when it comes to hassling the opposition. That's part of why Ba was such a success here and why Shola's continued inclusion is baffling.

 

Again, not saying HBA wouldn't be in my team. Just saying that him not playing every week isn't as criminal as some seem to believe. There are some games I'd want him nowhere near the pitch. Any tight games, like the games against the mackems, for example. He played both and offered nowt of note.

 

I know you aren't saying he shouldn't play.  But what you are saying is that its reasonable that Pardew has decided not to play him.  In certain games?, arguably if you think its acceptable to go into any game looking to keep it tight by working super hard and defending from the front then maybe nicking something.  However its not as if he's only leaving him out in those kinds of games, he started against Palace at home without him FFS!  Is there any doubt there for you to give him the benefit of, because I don't think there is personally.

 

As for Sunderland, nobody offered anything against them, it was a team failure, also Ben Arfa actually set up the only goal we've scored against them in the last 3 games, with a ball across the box to Debuchy.  He also changed the game against them the last time we played remotely well against them at home, incidentally he played on the right side that game unlike the other two occasions when Pardew insisted on wasting him on the left.

[LucaAltieri]

Oh wow are we still falling for the Pardew propeganda? He's been well and truly Pardewed, he tells his lies so much it becomes the truth, like Teasy said, you show me the % losses of posession and misplaced passes from Ben Arfa and then marry that up with Gouf and Sissoko.

 

He's no more of a liability than any other player on that pitch, he has his Pardew rep and everyone falls for the bullshit, no one notices anyone else lose the ball because that's football and players occasionally lose posession, even the best players in the world. It's just when someone continually berates one player for it they're being watched like a hawk and every error is scrutinised heavily and to a higher degree because you're looking for it.

 

Sick of this shit about Ben Arfa, just more Pardew bullshit alienating our best player and only flair left in the squad. Those that believe this shit, I hope you enjoy next seasons team of "hard working" cloggers.

 

It's not about misplaced passes. It's about what happens off the ball when we're defending.

 

I also happen to question how effective he is going forward on occasions as his decision making is suspect at times, but I'm in no way arguing he misplaces more passes than anyone else.

 

It's got nothing to do with anything Pardew has said. In the main I rarely listen to any of his press conferences. My opinions are based on actually studying the game rather than gauging popular opinion down the pub.

[DJ_NUFC]

Sorry Luca, you're way off. You've bought the lie repeated often enough by the clown in charge about HBA and now it's become the truth for you.

 

Almost everything you've said goes against how flair players are managed, and how we've seen they can be managed by actual managers who have a spine and creativity to play positive football.

 

You've bought into Pardew's thinking, ignoring that KK and SBR managed flair players far better and included them in their teams most of the time. Even SBR dropped some of our attacking players where the team needed it, but never froze them out and publicly shamed them for not fucking "defending from the front," as much as this fool in charge does.

 

Pardew's found his scapegoat and people are happy to believe anything he says.

[DJ_NUFC]

I'm not in two minds about him. I'm of a singular mind that he needs to fuck off.

[LucaAltieri]

Sorry Luca, you're way off. You've bought the lie repeated often enough by the clown in charge about HBA and now it's become the truth for you.

 

Almost everything you've said goes against how flair players are managed, and how we've seen they can be managed by actual managers who have a spine and creativity to play positive football.

 

You've bought into Pardew's thinking, ignoring that KK and SBR managed flair players far better and included them in their teams most of the time. Even SBR dropped some of our attacking players where the team needed it, but never froze them out and publicly shamed them for not fucking "defending from the front," as much as this fool in charge does.

 

Pardew's found his scapegoat and people are happy to believe anything he says.

 

Like I've said repeatedly, I'd probably have him in my team most weeks. I'm just acknowledging that there are legitimate reasons to not play him, too.

 

To listen to some on here you'd think he was getting a goal and a couple of assists every time he plays. He's a risk that our squad can't always afford.

 

It's a little easier for good squads to accommodate flair players than it is for a squad with limited ability. We're hoping for some of our players to play above themselves half the time. Should they also have to pick up slack for others?

 

And once again, I don't actually watch Pardew's pressers and the odd few that I have caught I take with a pinch of salt.

 

There's balance to be had in this argument and a lot of you seem to completely lack it. 

[DJ_NUFC]

Nobody's arguing the old horses for courses adage, good management requires it.

 

Pardew has constantly, openly lambasted our most creative player instead of building a fucking team around him and making him the fulcrum of our attack the past few years. This is criminal and unacceptable from a manager. Fucking Hayden Mullins, shit.

[LucaAltieri]

There's a reason other clubs aren't kicking down our down trying to sign a player that Pardew obviously has issues with. That's enough for me to assume that maybe Pardew isn't just being a complete moron over HBA.

[DJ_NUFC]

You're ignoring his track record at West Ham with Mascherano and Tevez then? I'm sure there are convenient excuses for that too that he's trotted out which people will buy into. Those two players kept them  up once this fool was sacked.

[Mattoon]

When he's on the pitch he pushes the wing backs into their own half and usually ties up at least two players to mark him, if that's not defending from the front then what is?

 

When we've got Sissoko on we're the ones pushed back, our wing backs inevitably become 3rd and 4th centre backs and Sissoko defends our final third on the wing. We lose the ball and retreat, stay compact and try and soak up pressure, we might defend from the front but the front is about 10 yards short of the half way line!?

[LucaAltieri]

You're ignoring his track record at West Ham with Mascherano and Tevez then? I'm sure there are convenient excuses for that too that he's trotted out which people will buy into. Those two players kept them  up once this fool was sacked.

 

Tevez was definitely a player he should have been playing.

 

But even at Liverpool it took Mascherano quite a while before he looked like a Premier League player. He was right to use him sparingly.

[Jayson]

Hasnt this all been said? Gouffran has been specifically at fault for goals recently & is far poorer than Ben Arfa offensively. Thats ignoring the difference in motivation of a player who hasnt been playing, in the lead up to a world cup, with far higher potential in his ability & after recently setting up several massively clear goal scoring chances. In a side who are struggling for goals.

 

Theres no debate to be had. Pardew aims set pieces at a defender who hasnt scored in 5+ years.

[Cajun]

The Tevez/Mascherano stuff is just nonsense to me. For one Mascherano was made for Pardew's cowardly defensive tactics, secondly they wouldn't be the first players who took a while to settle into a new league especially at that age. Half a season of settling in makes sense with some players, even Debuchy a French international right back at 26/27 took that time to adapt so I don't know how any Newcastle fan can still bang that tired old drum.

 

That said the Ben Arfa situation is absolutely ridiculous. I don't rate him as highly as some but there is no way he shouldn't be playing. I have no doubt he can be difficult, he seems to have been even from youth level but with the creativity we have in this squad now (not to mention Remy missing) it is moronic he isn't starting every game even if he doesn't perform a miracle in every one.

[Cajun]

 

You're ignoring his track record at West Ham with Mascherano and Tevez then? I'm sure there are convenient excuses for that too that he's trotted out which people will buy into. Those two players kept them  up once this fool was sacked.

 

Tevez was definitely a player he should have been playing.

 

But even at Liverpool it took Mascherano quite a while before he looked like a Premier League player. He was right to use him sparingly.

 

nah man, not when you're  west ham and you're looking like you'll be relegated

 

Wasn't that long ago Simpson was better than Debuchy on here

[AyeDubbleYoo]

The Tevez/Mascherano stuff is just nonsense to me. For one Mascherano was made for Pardew's cowardly defensive tactics, secondly they wouldn't be the first players who took a while to settle into a new league especially at that age. Half a season of settling in makes sense with some players, even Debuchy a French international right back at 26/27 took that time to adapt so I don't know how any Newcastle fan can still bang that tired old drum.

 

That said the Ben Arfa situation is absolutely ridiculous. I don't rate him as highly as some but there is no way he shouldn't be playing. I have no doubt he can be difficult, he seems to have been even from youth level but with the creativity we have in this squad now (not to mention Remy missing) it is moronic he isn't starting every game even if he doesn't perform a miracle in every one.

 

Agree on both counts. The Tevez/Masch thing doesn't mean anything IMO.

 

On Ben Arfa, it's a mystery to me. Pardew has managed him reasonably well in the past, no idea why he's suddenly such a problem. Surely Pardew's whole philosophy depends on a match winner to play ahead of his solid, hard working unit? On theory he should want to utilise Ben Arfa to put the finishing touch onto his system.

 

I know Ben Arfa is a complex person and it can't be denied that his personality and approach might be part of the problem as well. Basically nobody knows, but it's fucking annoying he isn't playing all the time.

[Cajun]

The Tevez/Mascherano stuff is just nonsense to me. For one Mascherano was made for Pardew's cowardly defensive tactics, secondly they wouldn't be the first players who took a while to settle into a new league especially at that age. Half a season of settling in makes sense with some players, even Debuchy a French international right back at 26/27 took that time to adapt so I don't know how any Newcastle fan can still bang that tired old drum.

 

That said the Ben Arfa situation is absolutely ridiculous. I don't rate him as highly as some but there is no way he shouldn't be playing. I have no doubt he can be difficult, he seems to have been even from youth level but with the creativity we have in this squad now (not to mention Remy missing) it is moronic he isn't starting every game even if he doesn't perform a miracle in every one.

 

Agree on both counts. The Tevez/Masch thing doesn't mean anything IMO.

 

On Ben Arfa, it's a mystery to me. Pardew has managed him reasonably well in the past, no idea why he's suddenly such a problem. Surely Pardew's whole philosophy depends on a match winner to play ahead of his solid, hard working unit? On theory he should want to utilise Ben Arfa to put the finishing touch onto his system.

 

I know Ben Arfa is a complex person and it can't be denied that his personality and approach might be part of the problem as well. Basically nobody knows, but it's fucking annoying he isn't playing all the time.

 

Pardew can't help fucking about with things, HBA was playing on the right, tracking back and still playing some brilliant football then Pardew decided to change things up. Suddenly HBA wasn't doing what he was before and somehow got the blame.

 

 

[Tooj]

I don't think that Pardew has managed him reasonably well at all.

[Cajun]

I don't think that Pardew has managed him reasonably well at all.

 

He was for a while imo but now it has gone from "Ahh look at Fred West getting up in the middle of the night to soothe his crying child" to "Buried in the fucking garden!?".

[Hanshithispantz]

On Ben Arfa, it's a mystery to me. Pardew has managed him reasonably well in the past, no idea why he's suddenly such a problem.

 

Not meaning to be a cunt like, but this sentence is pretty galling.

[Hanshithispantz]

I don't think that Pardew has managed him reasonably well at all.

 

He was for a while imo but now it has gone from "Ahh look at Fred West getting up in the middle of the night to soothe his crying child" to "Buried in the fucking garden!?".

I'm guessing you mean when he wasn't playing him during the season we finished 5th? Obviously cannot be arsed to reignite that debate but surely after another year of the same shit it's pretty clear what was going on back then, and it wasn't Pardew trying to ease Hatem back in gently, he just flat out didn't want to play him.

[Cajun]

I don't think that Pardew has managed him reasonably well at all.

 

He was for a while imo but now it has gone from "Ahh look at Fred West getting up in the middle of the night to soothe his crying child" to "Buried in the fucking garden!?".

I'm guessing you mean when he wasn't playing him during the season we finished 5th? Obviously cannot be arsed to reignite that debate but surely after another year of the same shit it's pretty clear what was going on back then, and it wasn't Pardew trying to ease Hatem back in gently, he just flat out didn't want to play him.