Guest firetotheworks Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 I'm genuinely staggered that there are still people hanging onto anything positive whatsoever to do with that cluster of cunts like. After everything, after everything that has been predicted and has happened, there's still people finding solace in their delusions of insignificance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 I'd dispute your first point, which would sort of negate the rest of your post tbh. Few questions for you, if Ashley doesn't care a jot what the fans think... - Why did he throw a massive paddy when fans were kicking off at him after the Keegan stuff, reacting by putting the club on the market in a huff? - Why did he do the same when the Chronicle objectively and innocuously reported a protest march in their paper? - Why are his staff consistently trying to dampen expectations in the media, if not to limit fan anger and fuel apathy? - Why are they consistently mis-leading the fans on issues such as transfer fees paid out, if not to avoid being berated by the fans for not spending what we bring in? - Why the cloak-and-dagger approach to explaining the Sports Direct advertising issue? If he's not bothered about the fans, why doesn't he just say it's his ground and they can f*** off? - Why is the club run in such a shady, secretive way, where every communication with the fans is watered down and again geared towards lowering expectations? They're just a few questions, there'd be more if I could be arsed to think of them. But the point I'm making is that although fan's feelings clearly aren't the be-all-and-end-all for Mike Ashley, he benefits from an easier ride, which is unfortunately all too often afforded to him due to the fractured nature of our support, general apathy/resignation in the stands (much of it resulting from years of the club saying/doing things that suggest we're not much cop as a football club, in contrast to previous years where we'd be allowed to dream and knew we'd try to compete) and also many of our fans falling for the quite obvious decoys being put in front of them, such as an excuse-machine manager and a DOF who people would point and laugh at and then later on blame when no players were brought in and our best one was sold. You even heard it at the time, fans all over the shop going "It's the Director Of f***-All's fault, he's not doing his job properly", so it clearly was believable to some. You just had to mention the singing section, you didn't need all of those words. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucaAltieri Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 He wants us to succeed but doesn't buy any players for two years, sells Cabaye in January sans replacement and drags a manager off the League 1 scrapheap to run the show. It's all becoming clear now. Maybe, the billionaire owner with no history working in football, and with multiple other business interests doesn't spend that much time worrying about the inner workings of the club and leaves that to the people he hires specifically for that purpose. Ah right, of course. It's the club employees that are choosing to sell our best players, choosing not to spend, choosing to hire a manager sacked by West Ham, Southampton and Charlton Athletic. Mike's given them an open cheque book and told them to go after Laudrup and they keep letting him down, the bloody rascals. See, this is the kind of shit I'm talking about. I argue that he's not micromanaging the day to day operations. Your response is to suggest that there's no money available anyway. It's all smoke and mirrors. Part of the plan. There's a middle ground. Ashley wants bargains and fuck face Kinnear couldn't deliver them. We were bidding for players. We even had bids accepted and were negotiating personal terms. But no, that's just a smokescreen in the grand plot to make sure we never sign another player again. Logic would dictate Ashley gave them a budget and Kinnear couldn't make it work. He sold one of our most valuable assets (arguably cheaply) and couldn't get a replacement through the door in time. He got sacked. Looks pretty obvious to me. But unless there's something sinister you lot just aren't happy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 How many years do we need to see us spending significantly less than we bring in for it to click like? We consistently find ways to do it, so no wonder people are cynical. It appears to be the plan. Can't believe we're still having this conversation after 7 years of seeing it happen in front of our eyes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spudil Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 How many years do we need to see us spending significantly less than we bring in for it to click like? We consistently find ways to do it, so no wonder people are cynical. It appears to be the plan. Can't believe we're still having this conversation after 7 years of seeing it happen in front of our eyes. Next window is the crucial one IMO. We will see Mikes true intentions then, without that rascal Joe around to scupper things with his ineptitude. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucaAltieri Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 I'm not buying that Kinnear was simply a bad appointment and we coincidentally didn't buy anyone for 2 whole transfer windows like. Sometimes you need to read between the lines a bit, not one person thought that was a good appointment but it's far too convenient that Kinnear served as the scapegoat for doing precisely what Ashley loves doing when not pressed otherwise by factors such as potential relegation, i.e. spending the square root of fuck-all. Seems far more fanciful to believe it was an innocent mistake that didn't work out, made by someone who wants the best for the club. We know that Ashley doesn't give a fuck about what the fans think. We know that Ashley doesn't like to spend money. Why would he hire someone just to use them as a scapegoat? Did he suddenly start to care what the fans think or did he suddenly decide he liked wasting money? I see little evidence of either in any other aspect of the club. If he was so keen to keep the fans onside, why would he hire Kinnear in the first place? Why wouldn't he hire someone we respected to be DoF then use them as a scapegoat? Wouldn't that be more plausible? It just doesn't add up. It's fucking bonkers. I'd dispute your first point, which would sort of negate much of the rest of your post tbh. Few questions for you, if Ashley doesn't care a jot what the fans think... - Why did he throw a massive paddy when fans were kicking off at him after the Keegan stuff, reacting by putting the club on the market in a huff? - Why did he do similar when the Chronicle objectively and innocuously reported a protest march in their paper, banning all TH publications from the ground? - Why are his staff consistently trying to dampen expectations in the media, if not to limit fan anger and fuel apathy? - Why are they consistently mis-leading the fans on issues such as transfer fees paid out, if not to avoid being berated by the fans for not spending what we bring in? - Why the cloak-and-dagger approach to explaining the Sports Direct advertising issue? If he's not bothered about the fans, why doesn't he just say it's his ground and they can fuck off? - Why is the club run in such a shady, secretive way, where every communication with the fans is watered down and again geared towards lowering expectations? They're just a few questions, there'd be more if I could be arsed to think of them. But the point I'm making is that although fan's feelings clearly aren't the be-all-and-end-all for Mike Ashley, he benefits from an easier ride, which is unfortunately all too often afforded to him due to the fractured nature of our support, general apathy/resignation in the stands (much of it resulting from years of the club saying/doing things that suggest we're not much cop as a football club, in contrast to previous years where we'd be allowed to dream and knew we'd try to compete) and also many of our fans falling for the quite obvious decoys being put in front of them, such as an excuse-machine manager and a DOF who people would point and laugh at and then later on blame when no players were brought in and our best one was sold. You even heard it at the time, fans all over the shop going "It's the Director Of Fuck-All's fault, he's not doing his job properly", so it clearly was believable to some. I can't be bothered to reply to every point so I'll just go back to the only one that matters... If he cares what the fans think and wants to keep them onside then why is Joe Kinnear his DoF appointment? Nobody, sympathiser or hater, wanted Joe Kinnear in that role. No one thought it would work out. No one looks at that and thinks "fair play, Ashley is free from blame here." It was a massive fuck up and one he rightly gets blamed for. That's not good PR. Not spending money or appointing a fucking chimpanzee who fails to spend any money, he still comes out of it looking like shit. Fans are still pissed off. We can still do fuck all about it. What did he gain? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 He wants us to succeed but doesn't buy any players for two years, sells Cabaye in January sans replacement and drags a manager off the League 1 scrapheap to run the show. It's all becoming clear now. Maybe, the billionaire owner with no history working in football, and with multiple other business interests doesn't spend that much time worrying about the inner workings of the club and leaves that to the people he hires specifically for that purpose. Ah right, of course. It's the club employees that are choosing to sell our best players, choosing not to spend, choosing to hire a manager sacked by West Ham, Southampton and Charlton Athletic. Mike's given them an open cheque book and told them to go after Laudrup and they keep letting him down, the bloody rascals. See, this is the kind of shit I'm talking about. I argue that he's not micromanaging the day to day operations. Your response is to suggest that there's no money available anyway. It's all smoke and mirrors. Part of the plan. There's a middle ground. Ashley wants bargains and fuck face Kinnear couldn't deliver them. We were bidding for players. We even had bids accepted and were negotiating personal terms. But no, that's just a smokescreen in the grand plot to make sure we never sign another player again. Logic would dictate Ashley gave them a budget and Kinnear couldn't make it work. He sold one of our most valuable assets (arguably cheaply) and couldn't get a replacement through the door in time. He got sacked. Looks pretty obvious to me. But unless there's something sinister you lot just aren't happy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 I can't be bothered to reply to every point so I'll just go back to the only one that matters... If he cares what the fans think and wants to keep them onside then why is Joe Kinnear his DoF appointment? Nobody, sympathiser or hater, wanted Joe Kinnear in that role. No one thought it would work out. No one looks at that and thinks "fair play, Ashley is free from blame here." It was a massive f*** up and one he rightly gets blamed for. That's not good PR. Not spending money or appointing a f***ing chimpanzee who fails to spend any money, he still comes out of it looking like s***. Fans are still p*ssed off. We can still do f*** all about it. What did he gain? £18 million. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucaAltieri Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 Luca doing the early running for most boring poster 2014 Logic is boring. That's why so few dabble in it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucaAltieri Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 I can't be bothered to reply to every point so I'll just go back to the only one that matters... If he cares what the fans think and wants to keep them onside then why is Joe Kinnear his DoF appointment? Nobody, sympathiser or hater, wanted Joe Kinnear in that role. No one thought it would work out. No one looks at that and thinks "fair play, Ashley is free from blame here." It was a massive f*** up and one he rightly gets blamed for. That's not good PR. Not spending money or appointing a f***ing chimpanzee who fails to spend any money, he still comes out of it looking like s***. Fans are still p*ssed off. We can still do f*** all about it. What did he gain? £18 million. And if he'd just sold Cabaye and never hired Kinnear, it's still £18 million plus the threepence Kinnear was earning. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deuce Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 Regardless of content, I do appreciate Luca's posts as being a nice break from the bog standard, "Pardew's a cunt," zinger that has plagued the football forum this season. Because that's definitely a sentiment that bears repeating every. single. day. in every. single. thread. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 I can't be bothered to reply to every point so I'll just go back to the only one that matters... If he cares what the fans think and wants to keep them onside then why is Joe Kinnear his DoF appointment? Nobody, sympathiser or hater, wanted Joe Kinnear in that role. No one thought it would work out. No one looks at that and thinks "fair play, Ashley is free from blame here." It was a massive f*** up and one he rightly gets blamed for. That's not good PR. Not spending money or appointing a f***ing chimpanzee who fails to spend any money, he still comes out of it looking like s***. Fans are still p*ssed off. We can still do f*** all about it. What did he gain? £18 million. And if he'd just sold Cabaye and never hired Kinnear, it's still £18 million plus the threepence Kinnear was earning. He'd probably face more flack than peddling Kinnear to deflect anything from coming his way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 I'm not buying that Kinnear was simply a bad appointment and we coincidentally didn't buy anyone for 2 whole transfer windows like. Sometimes you need to read between the lines a bit, not one person thought that was a good appointment but it's far too convenient that Kinnear served as the scapegoat for doing precisely what Ashley loves doing when not pressed otherwise by factors such as potential relegation, i.e. spending the square root of fuck-all. Seems far more fanciful to believe it was an innocent mistake that didn't work out, made by someone who wants the best for the club. We know that Ashley doesn't give a fuck about what the fans think. We know that Ashley doesn't like to spend money. Why would he hire someone just to use them as a scapegoat? Did he suddenly start to care what the fans think or did he suddenly decide he liked wasting money? I see little evidence of either in any other aspect of the club. If he was so keen to keep the fans onside, why would he hire Kinnear in the first place? Why wouldn't he hire someone we respected to be DoF then use them as a scapegoat? Wouldn't that be more plausible? It just doesn't add up. It's fucking bonkers. I'd dispute your first point, which would sort of negate much of the rest of your post tbh. Few questions for you, if Ashley doesn't care a jot what the fans think... - Why did he throw a massive paddy when fans were kicking off at him after the Keegan stuff, reacting by putting the club on the market in a huff? - Why did he do similar when the Chronicle objectively and innocuously reported a protest march in their paper, banning all TH publications from the ground? - Why are his staff consistently trying to dampen expectations in the media, if not to limit fan anger and fuel apathy? - Why are they consistently mis-leading the fans on issues such as transfer fees paid out, if not to avoid being berated by the fans for not spending what we bring in? - Why the cloak-and-dagger approach to explaining the Sports Direct advertising issue? If he's not bothered about the fans, why doesn't he just say it's his ground and they can fuck off? - Why is the club run in such a shady, secretive way, where every communication with the fans is watered down and again geared towards lowering expectations? They're just a few questions, there'd be more if I could be arsed to think of them. But the point I'm making is that although fan's feelings clearly aren't the be-all-and-end-all for Mike Ashley, he benefits from an easier ride, which is unfortunately all too often afforded to him due to the fractured nature of our support, general apathy/resignation in the stands (much of it resulting from years of the club saying/doing things that suggest we're not much cop as a football club, in contrast to previous years where we'd be allowed to dream and knew we'd try to compete) and also many of our fans falling for the quite obvious decoys being put in front of them, such as an excuse-machine manager and a DOF who people would point and laugh at and then later on blame when no players were brought in and our best one was sold. You even heard it at the time, fans all over the shop going "It's the Director Of Fuck-All's fault, he's not doing his job properly", so it clearly was believable to some. I can't be bothered to reply to every point so I'll just go back to the only one that matters... If he cares what the fans think and wants to keep them onside then why is Joe Kinnear his DoF appointment? Nobody, sympathiser or hater, wanted Joe Kinnear in that role. No one thought it would work out. No one looks at that and thinks "fair play, Ashley is free from blame here." It was a massive fuck up and one he rightly gets blamed for. That's not good PR. Not spending money or appointing a fucking chimpanzee who fails to spend any money, he still comes out of it looking like shit. Fans are still pissed off. We can still do fuck all about it. What did he gain? It worked out really well for Ashley IMO, diverted some attention from us spending zero cash in 2 transfer windows and gave some a person to blame. Also took a bit of pressure off the manager. As you say, not all fans are as cynical as those on here, or other like-minded people who don't come on this forum for that matter. I think it was a smoke-and-mirrors, diversionary tactic and it worked. 3 years of profit on the balance sheet running to the end of last season, followed by 2 windows of no spending, £20m for Cabaye, the increased TV money and a few high earners off the wage bill. The profit this season will be obscenely high and fans on the whole have barely even moaned at the chronic lack of investment they were witnessing. Job done. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spudil Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 Logic is boring. That's why so few dabble in it. *tips fedora* Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 "Logic" and "Kinnear" in the same sentence there like Luca. You might want to grab a hold of yourself. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 Can't believe I'm seeing someone claim, in 2014, that Mike Ashley wants NUFC to succeed. Phil Patterson - "Realistically, the cups are about the only chance of silverware, but year in year out we don't seem to target one, why not? The board said that we utilise the cup competitions to secure match experience for the wider squad. The club is also mindful of injuries following last season's Europa League. Our primary aim and focus has to be the Premier League and we don't want to jeopardise that. Chris Forster - "A cup would be success for fans." The board said the financial rewards of being a PL club are so great that we have to make sure that we do everything we can to stay in that position. Examples of three recent cup winners who are now no longer in the PL were given. The board added that the extra 14 games we played in the Europa League and the injuries sustained had contributed to a lower league finish. we want to finish in the top ten this season. Liam Hall (LH): "Regarding strength of the squad, if we did qualify for the Europa League this season, would we strengthen where we didn't last time?" The board explained that the Europa League generated circa £6m last season and that was not a significant amount to strengthen the squad. Any funds available would be used to strengthen for the Premier League and not for the Europa League. Presumably "success" in Luca's eyes is a similar definition to Ian's - "I want an ok season with some decent moments" Ronaldo called it correctly over an hour ago and I'm still posting. FFS. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucaAltieri Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 I can't be bothered to reply to every point so I'll just go back to the only one that matters... If he cares what the fans think and wants to keep them onside then why is Joe Kinnear his DoF appointment? Nobody, sympathiser or hater, wanted Joe Kinnear in that role. No one thought it would work out. No one looks at that and thinks "fair play, Ashley is free from blame here." It was a massive f*** up and one he rightly gets blamed for. That's not good PR. Not spending money or appointing a f***ing chimpanzee who fails to spend any money, he still comes out of it looking like s***. Fans are still p*ssed off. We can still do f*** all about it. What did he gain? £18 million. And if he'd just sold Cabaye and never hired Kinnear, it's still £18 million plus the threepence Kinnear was earning. He'd probably face more flack than peddling Kinnear to deflect anything from coming his way. But that doesn't appear to be the reality. Public opinion was shit anyway, hiring Kinnear made it worse. Sacking Kinnear didn't bring it back up to where it was before. It was better than having him lurking around but it didn't restore any optimism. It just made Ashley's decision making seem suspect. It's like when people argue smoking makes you calmer... it only makes you calmer because it's the very thing that's stressing you the fuck out. I just don't buy it. I can be convinced, however. If we go into this summer, with Ashley on the board and helping with transfers and we sign players... I'm sticking to my guns. I was right. He's not sitting at home petting his cat and cackling manically. If we go into the summer and we don't sign enough players or players of the right quality, spending way under what's needed, and/or selling off our top assets without replacing them, and in the fallout Ashley resigns from the board to take the heat off... then you've got me as a conspiracy theorist too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 So if we're languishing near the bottom come January and he gets some players in like he did last year, that'll be him wanting success? His success is remaining in the league. That. is. it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucaAltieri Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 So if we're languishing near the bottom come January and he gets some players in like he did last year, that'll be him wanting success? His success is remaining in the league. That. is. it. Probably true to a point. The club don't value cup runs or a second tier European tournament because they don't generate enough revenue. They've made that clear. I'd bet you Ashley would bite you hand off for a bit of the champion's league money, though. I think he wants us to improve, but in very specific ways, on very specific terms. This summer is the big test. He's taking a more active role in the club so here we'll see what his intentions are. If it's just more of the same then I'll hold my hands up and admit defeat. No ambition, no desire to be anything more than mid-table. If we invest then I'm sticking to my guns. Early indicators, with the upgrades to the academy, are that he's going to double down on youth and try to get the best out of kids as offering value for money. I like that prospect. It was great seeing the likes of Bassong and Krul come good. As a fan I find that exciting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElDiablo Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 pardew's a cunt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucaAltieri Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 pardew's a cunt So's your gran. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucaAltieri Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 Regardless of content, I do appreciate Luca's posts as being a nice break from the bog standard, "Pardew's a cunt," zinger that has plagued the football forum this season. Because that's definitely a sentiment that bears repeating every. single. day. in every. single. thread. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 pardew's a cunt So's your gran. Why would you care? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tachikoma Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 So if we're languishing near the bottom come January and he gets some players in like he did last year, that'll be him wanting success? His success is remaining in the league. That. is. it. Probably true to a point. The club don't value cup runs or a second tier European tournament because they don't generate enough revenue. They've made that clear. I'd bet you Ashley would bite you hand off for a bit of the champion's league money, though. I think he wants us to improve, but in very specific ways, on very specific terms. This summer is the big test. He's taking a more active role in the club so here we'll see what his intentions are. If it's just more of the same then I'll hold my hands up and admit defeat. No ambition, no desire to be anything more than mid-table. If we invest then I'm sticking to my guns. Early indicators, with the upgrades to the academy, are that he's going to double down on youth and try to get the best out of kids as offering value for money. I like that prospect. It was great seeing the likes of Bassong and Krul come good. As a fan I find that exciting. The big test is whether he chooses to stick with Pardew or not, and how he replaces him. Get Laudrup in and I'd be reasonably happy with The Fat One. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 So's your gran. That's a bit low, you don't even know if she's still alive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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