Manchester United

[r0cafella]

1 minute ago, Cf said:

Do we think this is why Ashworth left then?

 

Just thought this appointment was a bad idea and not what the club needed and it basically made his position untenable if he didn't agree with the choice of manager?

One of the reasons from what I read yeah. The other was the data not being fit for purpose. 

[Sibierski]

6 minutes ago, Cf said:

Do we think this is why Ashworth left then?

 

Just thought this appointment was a bad idea and not what the club needed and it basically made his position untenable if he didn't agree with the choice of manager?

 

Said in the press releases, that he was moved on because he questioned Amorim approach, wanted a consistent approach across the club to help with long term recruitment (i.e. not 3 at the back just for first team) and Ratcliffe was not impressed all he could come up with as ideas were Prem based managers. Small bust up and Ratcliffe got rid.

 

I mean, Ashworth is a total knob and funny how it ended, but he's looking to be on the right side of things again, bit similar to his time here.

 

Be a bit blinkered to not think the same situation couldn't happen to Amorim. If league form doesn't take an upturn, it'll depend on how much weight Ratcliffe puts on the cups to paper over things.

[54]

I know it sounds stupid, and I'm not sure I quite believe it, but the more I think about it, in the short term Southgate may have actually not been that bad of an appointment.

 

Tactically, he's not got a whole lot, which is his biggest limiting factor, but what he has proven over multiple roles is that he can sort out the culture and psyche of a squad, and get a hell of a lot of buy in from them. So even if it was a year or two stop gap, before getting someone tactically much better, like Amorim, for him to sort out the culture and attitude of the place, it may have not been a horrible idea.

[r0cafella]

2 minutes ago, 54 said:

I know it sounds stupid, and I'm not sure I quite believe it, but the more I think about it, in the short term Southgate may have actually not been that bad of an appointment.

 

Tactically, he's not got a whole lot, which is his biggest limiting factor, but what he has proven over multiple roles is that he can sort out the culture and psyche of a squad, and get a hell of a lot of buy in from them. So even if it was a year or two stop gap, before getting someone tactically much better, like Amorim, for him to sort out the culture and attitude of the place, it may have not been a horrible idea.

They've basically picked the Portuguese version of ETH. highly rated manager from a second tier league with some flashes in Europe which has convinced the world he's the second coming. 

 

The appointment is a massive risk for them. 

[Shays Given Tim Flowers]

Ashworth was binned though wasn't he? Has to be on Ratcliffe that, sacking your advisers because you don't like their advice is not a sensible strategy. 

[r0cafella]

Just now, Shays Given Tim Flowers said:

Ashworth was binned though wasn't he? Has to be on Ratcliffe that, sacking your advisers because you don't like their advice is not a sensible strategy. 

Yes unofficially though. And unfortunately when you give people a lot of money this kind of behaviour is to expected. 

[AngelofTheFourth]

This is how a know their fans are dumb as rocks. You could very much get a manager who can go in and do a quick fix but it's never sustainable. They Oli did that and continuesly played an unsustainable type of football and won nothing. Ten Hags mistake was coming in with a style that was also unsustainable to be able to get quickly get the results he needed then when he tried to play his style it just didn't work. Amorim is doing the correct approach especially if they are wanting a rebuild.

[Froggy]

Just now, AngelofTheFourth said:

This is how a know their fans are dumb as rocks. You could very much get a manager who can go in and do a quick fix but it's never sustainable. They Oli did that and continuesly played an unsustainable type of football and won nothing. Ten Hags mistake was coming in with a style that was also unsustainable to be able to get quickly get the results he needed then when he tried to play his style it just didn't work. Amorim is doing the correct approach especially if they are wanting a rebuild.

 

Our fans are the ones who want Amorim to continue with his style. It's your fans who think he should change.

[Erikse]

I truly believe he was just talking about the results being terrible, and that he acknowledges that, while also saying they have to improve short term. It was a clumsy way of saying it in that case, might be due to not being his native language.

[Geogaddi]

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they still won a cup this season, no matter how bad they are it could still happen, it's what they do.

[Sibierski]

11 minutes ago, Geogaddi said:

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they still won a cup this season, no matter how bad they are it could still happen, it's what they do.

 

They regularly spend like the 2nd highest amount on average across seasons, with one of the top 3 wages. Doesn't matter who is in charge, by virtue of throwing enough shit (money) at things, they will pick up cups. It's why the cup competitions are dominated by the select top clubs, despite how shit they can be.

 

Like if we got to spend another £400m, wages increased to matched top 4, we'd be winning cups regardless who is manager.

[The Fountain]

12 hours ago, Cf said:

I just don't get how a manager can come out and say "we're shit" and it not basically be a stackable offence. 

 

He's the manager. If they're shit then it's on him.

 

If it's not him then what is it? The players? That's a great way to get them on your side. The board? Always a good idea to call your boss shit. Trying to undo the effects of the previous manager? Ok maybe, but good lord there's better ways to get your point across. 

 

Can only see this ending in tears at this point. 

Howe and Emery have took over clubs in worse positions and turned them round. 

[The Fountain]

4 hours ago, Froggy said:

 

I think it makes perfect sense that Amorim doesn't get any blame. Yet. He's doing things we've been begging for for ages as well, i.e. binning the likes of Antony and Rashford and making players like Amad the focus.

 

I find his honesty refreshing, even if opposition fans find it jarring. Ten Hag was full of excuses whereas Amorim just says it how it is. If the players can't handle that, then they're not up to it. 

 

I would expect a lot of movement around transfers in the summer, and he'll get another season to improve significantly. 

 

Not going to lie and say I expected it to be this bad when he came in though.  It's worse than I expected, and we wouldn't put up with this next season after he gets a summer window to get some of his own players in.

How long do you think he should have a free pass? 

[Ben]

1 hour ago, Geogaddi said:

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they still won a cup this season, no matter how bad they are it could still happen, it's what they do.

 

Did

[The College Dropout]

Amorim could be a great coach.

 

But it's a big decision and a summer move imo. Liverpool had the right idea, they didn't want to commit the first team squad to playing a back 5 which is a calculated decision. There's benefits to Man U to going against that but they actually need to give him the squad to make it happen. Giving him the job but an unsuitable squad may irrevocably damage his standing and reputation similar to Rangnick.

 

Similar happened with Emery at Arsenal. He wasn't even that bad but he lost the confidence of the squad and fans and he was done. 

[Froggy]

31 minutes ago, The Fountain said:

How long do you think he should have a free pass? 

 

This season. Would expect a huge improvement next season. Anything like what's happening now and he'd be gone by November IMO.

 

10 minutes ago, Ben said:

Did

 

We're literally the reigning FA Cup champions of the world.

[lovejoy]

The problem Man Utd have (and Ashworth had) is that they need to overhaul their squad to play a 3-4-3.

 

If Amorim does not work out, they've then got a squad wedded to that formation so his replacement needs to play that way too.

 

If this works for them (and tbh i think it will), they're golden, if it doesn't, they'll be even more fucked than they are now imo.

[Froggy]

1 minute ago, lovejoy said:

The problem Man Utd have (and Ashworth had) is that they need to overhaul their squad to play a 3-4-3.

 

If Amorim does not work out, they've then got a squad wedded to that formation so his replacement needs to play that way too.

 

If this works for them (and tbh i think it will), they're golden, if it doesn't, they'll be even more fucked than they are now imo.

 

I think people are reading into this a bit much. The only specialised players for this system that don't fit into others are the wing backs. 

 

It's not like money is going to be spent on 11 players who won't be able to play 4-3-3 or 4-4-2.

[Geordie Ahmed]

Yeah, as long as they get wing backs that can play full back then any other player should be fine playing any other formation

 

So the midfielder he needs to give serious legs in the middle should still thrive in a 4-3-3 or a 4-2-3-1 etc etc

[geordie_b]

2 minutes ago, Froggy said:

It's not like money is going to be spent on 11 players who won't be able to play 4-3-3 or 4-4-2.

 

You've spent £1.5bn across the last decade on players who apparently can't...

 

[Smal]

All 3 CB positions are specialist as well as the two 10s in his system. 

[Froggy]

3 minutes ago, Smal said:

All 3 CB positions are specialist as well as the two 10s in his system. 

 

Any CB or #10 bought for a 3-4-3 will be able to play in any formation that requires CB's or #10's, which these days is all of them.

[The College Dropout]

3 minutes ago, Froggy said:

 

I think people are reading into this a bit much. The only specialised players for this system that don't fit into others are the wing backs. 

 

It's not like money is going to be spent on 11 players who won't be able to play 4-3-3 or 4-4-2.

Also need more players capable of playing CB. Different profiles for the wide CB roles too. From what I've seen De Ligt and Maguire might be your best CBs atm but neither is a wide CB (definitely not Maguire).

 

Conte found workarounds though. He often played Azpi at RCB and a converted winger at RWB (Moses) so in essence a RB and RM squad profile wise. Tuchel was fortunate to have fullbacks that were also natural wingbacks. And both managers had a prime Kante which might've been the most important aspect.

[Smal]

3 minutes ago, Froggy said:

 

Any CB or #10 bought for a 3-4-3 will be able to play in any formation that requires CB's or #10's, which these days is all of them.

 

the majority of CBs are too slow or not good enough at defending wide areas to play in the outside positions of a 3 at the top level. 

 

 

Edited January 20 by Smal

[lovejoy]

16 minutes ago, Froggy said:

 

I think people are reading into this a bit much. The only specialised players for this system that don't fit into others are the wing backs. 

 

It's not like money is going to be spent on 11 players who won't be able to play 4-3-3 or 4-4-2.

 

 

Well that begs the question as to how you are struggling so badly now?

 

Is it really just a lack of two wing backs?

 

You look dogshit from front to back whenever i see you